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Old 12-09-2017, 06:59 PM   #1
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Portable solar panel and wire length to trailer

Is there a loss of charging amps related to the length of the wire from a portable panel to the trailer? I currently have a 15' wire from panel to zamp port. Today I got an extension piece of 15' in the event the sun is further out than 15' from the trailer. Just curious about loss of charging related to length of wire.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:26 PM   #2
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Negligible in the scheme of things.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:32 PM   #3
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What gauge is the wire?
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:45 PM   #4
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I agree - if the sun is hiding from the roof panel than any charging juice from a portable panel is welcomed.


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Negligible in the scheme of things.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:46 PM   #5
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14 guage

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What gauge is the wire?
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:11 PM   #6
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Getting your panel into the sun will gain more than what is lost in your 14g wire.
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:13 PM   #7
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Thanks!
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:29 PM   #8
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Is there a loss of charging amps related to the length of the wire from a portable panel to the trailer? I currently have a 15' wire from panel to zamp port. Today I got an extension piece of 15' in the event the sun is further out than 15' from the trailer. Just curious about loss of charging related to length of wire.
Hi Parfsten,
You may want to consider performing a simple field test. @ noon measure your amp coming into your solar controller from your roof mounted solar panel. Then plug in your portable panel with 15' cable and write it down (try and aim portable panel directly at the sun). Then do the same with the additional 15' cable. Pretty simple and should give you a ball park idea. If I were to guess hum ? 4.5 amps.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:11 PM   #9
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14 guage
Read the blog "The Battery Charging Puzzle" by Handyman Bob before you think 14 gauge is good enough. I run a 40 foot 6 gauge duplex silicone wire and have minnimum voltage drop. There are plenty of voltage drop calculators available to use. Voltage drop is your enemy in a solar system. Renogy a popular solar retailer has a calculator at https://www.renogy.com/calculators/
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:58 AM   #10
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My solution: I carry a 50’ 10 gauge extension cord from Harbor Freight with pigtails to connect to the portable solar panel on one end and my Zamp Solar plug on the Escape.

Oh, and it is also an extension cord.


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Old 12-10-2017, 11:23 AM   #11
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That's the same thing I do except only 12 awg, the 10 was bigger then I want to carry.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:29 AM   #12
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My solution: I carry a 50’ 10 gauge extension cord from Harbor Freight with pigtails to connect to the portable solar panel on one end and my Zamp Solar plug on the Escape.

Oh, and it is also an extension cord.


Fred M.
While the currents available from most portable solar panels are low enough that you can get away with relatively long runs with minimal voltage drop, a better solution is to move the controller off the panel & place it as close to the batteries (but not in the same compartment) as possible. Most panels produce high enough voltage that the loss between the panel & the controller, even over a long cable is not a problem. The output voltage of the controller is usually much lower, so the voltage drop between it & the batteries is more critical.

Ten to twenty feet of #12 or #10 wire is not going to be a problem, even between the controller & batteries, but when you start getting to 40' - 50' runs, I'd move the controller.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:44 AM   #13
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John, parfsten already bypassed the controller on her portable panel. 30' of 14 ga cable is not ideal, much better off with 12 ga and 10 ga would be great. 8ga or 6 ga is just a waist of money IMO.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:38 PM   #14
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I found the best solution for me. I am using 50' of Knukonceptz speaker wire. This available in a number of different gauges, I choose the 10 gauge. One issue with using a 10 gauge extension cord is that it is usually three wire, thus quite a bit heavier. The speaker wire is only two wire, thus cutting down on weight. This is quality stranded wire, considered one of the best. It is made to be coiled, has a durable covering, in corresponding with the manufacturer they do not recommend driving over it but OK for foot or bicycle traffic.

You can add what ever connectors you choose, I use a Leviton PVC Grounding Plug but a Zamp connector capable of handling 10 gauge wire would work fine. The Knukonceptz speaker wire is available on Amazon.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:47 PM   #15
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Using the calculator and using output voltage of say17 volts and 6 amps (approximately what a 100 wattt panel puts out) and a 30 foot run 10 gauge will give you a 3% loss and 8 gauge a 2% loss (2-5% desired). So yes 10 gauge will work, especially from panel to controller. I would never recommend this from controller to batteries since 3 or 4 tenths of voltage drop is a big thing. The system will work with voltage drops, just not as efficiently. Wire is cheaper than more panels.
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Old 12-10-2017, 01:41 PM   #16
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Using the calculator and using output voltage of say17 volts and 6 amps (approximately what a 100 wattt panel puts out) and a 30 foot run 10 gauge will give you a 3% loss and 8 gauge a 2% loss (2-5% desired). So yes 10 gauge will work, especially from panel to controller. I would never recommend this from controller to batteries since 3 or 4 tenths of voltage drop is a big thing. The system will work with voltage drops, just not as efficiently. Wire is cheaper than more panels.
Hi AKCamper,
Here are the specs for the 100 watt lensun.
under real world conditions you will not get 6 amps out of a 100 watt panel even if you short it at the panel.
and as far as 10 ga from controller to batteries most solar controllers manufacturer do use and recommend 10 ga wire (some controllers will not accept larger wire) and are with in 3% vd which is with in spec.
I understand your point of view and of coarse bigger is better, but at what cost. a 3% vd for me is fine, I would rather spend the time and money on tilting my panels for a 30 to 40 % increase in output. IMO
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Old 12-10-2017, 01:49 PM   #17
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Using the calculator and using output voltage of say17 volts and 6 amps (approximately what a 100 wattt panel puts out) and a 30 foot run 10 gauge will give you a 3% loss and 8 gauge a 2% loss (2-5% desired). So yes 10 gauge will work, especially from panel to controller. I would never recommend this from controller to batteries since 3 or 4 tenths of voltage drop is a big thing. The system will work with voltage drops, just not as efficiently. Wire is cheaper than more panels.
Using 10 AWG for 30' from a 100W panel, with a max output of 5.6A, results in only a 1.9% voltage drop. And this is for optimal solar gain, which one could definitely more closely achieved with a portable unit, just as long as you keep moving it, which in practice nobody does.

Results here;
Voltage Drop Calculator

I agree that it is better to keep this line voltage at 18V to the controller which is placed near the batteries, rather than having it stepped down at the panel. For those wondering why keeping the controller near the batteries is a good thing, the controller steps the voltage down to the charge level the batteries need, and with the controller at the panel this line loss occurs in the line between the controller (and panel) and the batteries, whereas if the loss is between the panel and controller (at the batteries), the loss does not affect the charging voltage as the controller will put out the voltage needed with no loss being at the batteries.

I wired my system in at 36V to the controller, using pairs of panels in series. I did the same with my 80W portable which is actually two 40W panels that fold up. This gives me a max of 2.2A with a voltage drop of 0.36%. If I had of left it at 18V, I would have had a max of 4.4A, with a voltage drop of 1.44%. Makes a good difference. Once through the controller coming out at say 14V, this results in an ideal max of 5.66A of charging power. This is why power transmission is always done with high voltage, there is way less line loss this way.
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:19 PM   #18
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as for wire I always use the low voltage landscape wire it .it has 2 conductors and is stranded copper . uv protected and can be buried

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Old 12-10-2017, 04:20 PM   #19
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Hi AKCamper,
Here are the specs for the 100 watt lensun.
under real world conditions you will not get 6 amps out of a 100 watt panel even if you short it at the panel.
and as far as 10 ga from controller to batteries most solar controllers manufacturer do use and recommend 10 ga wire (some controllers will not accept larger wire) and are with in 3% vd which is with in spec.
I understand your point of view and of coarse bigger is better, but at what cost. a 3% vd for me is fine, I would rather spend the time and money on tilting my panels for a 30 to 40 % increase in output. IMO
Tin,
We use a Renogy 100 watt folding panel which puts out more in the realm of 5.75 amps. Unfortunately Renogy’s voltage drop calculator doesn’t allow for fractions. Renogy does spec out the panel at 6.17 amps shorted out. I guess it depends on your panel. Jim is correct though in the fact that controller to battery voltage drop is the most critical. Like I said before, it all works and it just depends on how efficient you want your system to be. I used 6 gauge wire since I plan on mounting two 100 watt tilting panels on my truck canopy and can park my truck in the sun while our trailer is in the shade. You also are correct in the fact that some controllers will not accept large wire. My EP Solar 20 amp controller said it would only accept 8 gauge wire but it accepted 6 gauge wire.
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parfsten View Post
Is there a loss of charging amps related to the length of the wire from a portable panel to the trailer? I currently have a 15' wire from panel to zamp port. Today I got an extension piece of 15' in the event the sun is further out than 15' from the trailer. Just curious about loss of charging related to length of wire.
Regardless of the gauge of wire - and I will repeat - it doesn't matter if you are using beefy 6 gauge or skinny 14 gauge - the voltage drop will exactly double if you double the length. It is linear so it is easy to calculate using one of the many online calculators.

But doubling a tiny drop still results in a tiny drop. This will be true for beefy 6 gauge. Now, double the rather significant voltage drop of skinny 14 gauge and you have a significant loss of power in your wire.

Solution? To offset the voltage loss when you double the length, you go "down" approximately 4 "gauge counts". Or, for example, you want to double the length your current piece of 14 gauge and not increase the loss, you would go to 10 gauge.

But is this practical or cost effective? These factors are harder to compute. You could compromise by keeping your current piece of 14 gauge and when camped in trees then add a piece of 10 gauge (using some connectors) as needed to reach the batteries.

Or as others below have pointed out, moving the controller off the panel and close to the batteries will also give significant results. Why? The controller only (usually) needs a couple of volts above battery voltage to work. So, batteries full at 14 volts, the controller needs 16 volts. If your panel is 18 volts you can afford to loose 2 volts in the wires. And this works in your favor if the batteries are low at 12 volts.

My personal solution: I used about 40 feet of silicone 8 gauge speaker wire (super flexible as others have mentioned). But for the last 4 feet or so into the trailer and to the controller, I used 12 gauge. Yes, a bit of skinny wire but we're only talking 5 to 8 amps so a trivial drop.

Plenty of options. All depend on your pocket book, space for heavy wire, where and when you camp, how much power you pull from batteries, and so much more. The best approach is to try out something simple and go camping and see how it works.

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