Questions about 17 vs 19 ft Escape - Toyota Tacoma v6

[Fiberglass Fan]

Originally Posted by Paul Braun

Escape 19 Weight

Personally, I have found the weights shown on the fiberglassrv.com table to be high compared to my experience. In my four weightings’ I have always been within a 100 lbs of 3,450. I guess I am a minimalist based on my observations above. Do I consciously cut back – Yes. Do I evaluate the usefulness of every item – Yes. I simply do not want to stow and struggle with that 2 ton hydraulic jack I might need, nor do I want the bother of a four way lug wrench. I look for lighter alternatives or go without.

What I like about the tables is, this could be you, and based on the few observations in the table, it seems to be common. Use their numbers for planning.

Thanks Paul for the response. I totally agree that more people need to take a look at that table as I suspect they may be suprised as to what their trailers *really* loaded weight may be. I know I have been suprised at the weight of my current trailer on more than one occasion even though I consider myself to be pretty carefull with what I put in it. I also know also that the Escape 19' owner who recently weighed theirs and talked to me about it after, was more than a little suprised as to the weight as they thought they were minimalist as well.

I appreciate that we all camp differently so weights will vary but when I see the average weight coming in 7-800lbs over the 3100lbs loaded weight that was mentioned here I have to wonder how the 3100lb trailer was actually weighed (was it disconnected from the tow?) or what option &/or standard features it does not have that most others do? Are they carrying all the extra such as bq, chairs etc in the back of their tow? I see a dry weight listed for a 19' as 2510lbs which I suspect (dont know for sure) that does not include things such as empty propane tanks, battery, spare tire etc or optional items. As a result I find it hard to believe that a 19' loaded with full propane tank, food, drinks, clothing, chairs, bq, bedding, towels, hoses, kitchen ware etc and having standard features and one or two optional items that many seem to go for could weigh in at under 3100lbs. I can see one coming in at 3500lb as yours does but as you say that is really working on it.

Yes the weights at FiberglassRV may be a bit high due to where the weights were done - people on 2-3 week vacations may be carrying more stuff than say a shorter camping trip - many of them may have bikes etc on the trailer. Having said that though that is as they say *real* world stuff that happens when we have the room to put things in. Having said that though I stuggle with how adding a couple of bikes and the extra clothing and food etc they may be carrying could account for a difference of 7-800 lbs. I cant make that math work - perhaps its just me.

As mentioned I have been eyeing up the 19 so if it really is possible to be able to come in loaded at 3100lbs without having to give up a whole lot of stuff that one might expect to take with them, then that would be great news for me. So far based on the weights I am seeing and hearing it leaves me with more questions than answers as to what I need to buy in the way of a Tow to safely tow a 19'.

Perhaps its just that there are not enough people that have weighed their 19's yet to know what the average really is?

[shanngord]

Originally Posted by kalyson

Hello,
We have been going back and forth between a 17B vs 19 ft Escape. We preferred the lighter 17B but the width of the bed is only 49". This is only 10 inches wider than a single/twin bed and 5 inches smaller than a full/double bed. Then we started looking at the 19 ft.
We have a Toyota Tacoma V6 TRD Sports Offroad with towing package (6500 lbs). We have seen some posts about people pulling it with that, but some of the posts sound as though it might be a bit of a strain...

Any thoughts on these two sizes and why you chose one over the other if you did?

Thanks!

kalyson

Originally when we started looking at new fiberglass RVs we were looking for a modernized version of the 13 ft Boler we used to have. We were looking small (originally something that even our 4 cylinder car could tow).

By the time we toured Escape, we:
1. knew what QUALITY looked like, and
2. had looked at a lot of used and a few new small trailers.

The 17b, to us, is a compromise between the original concept of the 13 footer, and the larger trailers that after a certain size, seem to defeat the purpose of environmental responsibility. With that said, I realize that many of you tow your 19s with the same type of small SUV as the 17. The 19s seemed to cry out "Big trailer wanna-be" rather than "cool egg!"

I worry that the 17 will be too cumbersome for the type of camping my wife and I like to do - remote forest service campsites that often require tight manuevering to get to. I second guess whether we should have stayed with the 15B.

We also don't mind the smallish bed - try it, it may do more for your relationship than separate beds

This post seemed to devolve from the original thread which seemed to invite debate about 17s vs 19s. Investing in an Escape trailer is a long term commitment (generally). When deciding whether size matters, imagine what RVing will look like in 10 or 20 years. If your imagination cannot picture it, look at what RVing has become in Europe with fuel prices at about $3 - 4 per litre.

My advice (since others offered theirs ) buy the 19 if you see your Escape as a 2 to 5 year investment: but the 17 if you are planning on keeping it for a long, long time.

Just my opinion,
Gord

[Hokie Escape]

We also don't mind the smallish bed - try it, it may do more for your relationship than separate beds
Just my opinion,
Gord
[/quote]
I know just what you mean Gord, crawling out over my wife wasn't all bad...but she sure is glad now, that in the middle of the night, we can just slip out the bottom. It's that separate bed stuff that's not good....in my opinion

[ronstew]

I have to admit that the 17' bed is small, especially when both dogs join us. It's not so small that we don't get a good night's sleep, but we sure are glad of the big bed when we get home. Otherwise, we are completely satisfied with the size of the 17'. It has everything we need, and then some. Okay, the bigger fridge in the 19' would be nice, but we get by. You do get a fridge that will run off the batteries in the 17', but that is not as desireable as it might seem.

I cannot see that towing the 19' could be any easier than the 17'.

Neither trailer is a bad choice, but I prefer the 17'

[shanngord]

Originally Posted by ronstew

Okay, the bigger fridge in the 19' would be nice, but we get by. You do get a fridge that will run off the batteries in the 17', but that is not as desireable as it might seem.

Our 17b will come with the 5.0 cuft fridge - just ask Tammy/Reace when you confirm your option package.

G

[escape artist]

Hi: All... and the 5.0 is a stretched 17 with a dinette/double bed and a full rv. queen size bed/loft. Almost HEAVEN !!! Tug and Trailer pic's to follow when we get back Monday Eve. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Yukon Escape]

We just pulled our 19 footer to a location hear in the Yukon over what is loosley called a road.

Ethel Lake is thirty Kilometers off the Alaska Highway just short of Stwert Crossing.

On the trip in and on the trip out, we traversed a stretch of mud about twelve inches deep, and had to use 4whell drive in low to get through, it was raining hard enough when we got back onto the Alaska highway to wash the mud off the truck and the trailer.

Our tow truck is a Dodge Dakota, V8, heavy tow package, no problem.

All the Lakes in the Yukon are still covered with Ice.

PS. The highways people told me if I went in to Ethel Lake I would not be able to get out and they would not come in for me. The hills coming out are very long and very steep


Doug

[donandbea]

That sounds impressive Doug. Should have some great pictures coming I hope?
Bea

[gocamp]

Agreed, Now that's what I call camping, out there with Doug.

[Yukon Escape]

I did take a couple of photos, and will post them as soon as I learn how.

Ethel Lake is back in the mountains, and the road follows the contours of the hills, an interesting trip. I drove at about 15 to 20 km an hr.

I am going back next month, I hope the roads are dried out a bit more and the ruts are less.
I also hope the ice is off the lake, so I can do some fishing.

I will take some more photos.

We are pleased with the way the trailer handled, it tracks very well with an equlizer hitch.

We were on battery for a few days and used propane for the fridge and warmth.

We left the heat off at night as we have a very good blanket.
Just used the furnace to take the chill off in the morning, before we got up.

The furnace switch is idealy located, just reach an arm up and flick it on.

In all all we used of the propane was six pounds.

Doug

[shanngord]

Its good to hear of Escape escapades that are off pavement.

G

[LBaranyai]

We have a 2003 Toyota Tacoma v-6 with 4 wheel drive and a 5 speed transmission. We are hoping to purchase a 17B Escape next year and have no concerns regarding towing with this vehicle. For us, the decision to buy a 17 or 19 is a decision of practicality as number one, we do not wish to purchase a new vehicle. My husband feels the single axle 17B will be easier to maneuver in the areas he will be travelling - he won't be staying in RV style parks as a rule. My preference for the 17B has to do with the ability to move it down the side of our house to park it as I don't want a trailer sitting out on my driveway, blocking my house. I only have about 9 feet to work with on the side of the house so maneuverability is key. We will concrete the area down the side of the house so we can just push it into place.

The permanent bed isn't a priority for us - I like the flexibility of the 2 separate dinette areas. My husband can lay out his fly tying setup at one table while I have the use of the other. Also he likes to nap and I never do so he can take a snooze while I read or whatever at the other end. We plan to add numerous options including the larger fridge and high lift axle.

I guess it's a good thing we have different sizes to choose from as we all have different needs. I have friends with 30'+ sized fifth wheels and they can't understand why anyone would stay in anything smaller! But they have to stay in RV Parks $$ and some aren't able or allowed to store their trailers on their property so they also have to pay storage fees. Now add in the fuel costs for towing these monster trailers and who's laughing now?

This forum is great for finding out what works for different situations. People seem genuinely happy with their Escapes and fiberglass trailers have a strong and unique comraderie. This is one case where bigger is NOT better!.

[Night Sailor]

Originally Posted by D. Priestley

We pulled our 19 with the same truck, no problems, 16 MPG Imperial (13.32 US).
We slow down going up long mountain passes not because of the truck but because
of the wallet as your MPG will drop quite quickly if you maintain 100 KPH while
climbing. On the flat roads the Tacoma pulls great at 100 KPH and has lots of go
left for passing. Hope this helps.

Doug

No offense intended but 13.32 mpg is horrible. I could get better mileage pulling with my diesel Silverado K3500, 1 ton 4x4 dually. I get 16 mpg if I baby it without a tow--15 typically on the highway at 70-75. pulling a small trailer like that, I'd get better than 12 mpg for certain and not need to slow up at all--70-75 mph. If I babied it, I could beat or match that number. But I would not want to. I want to do far better than that.

I am leaning towards a 17' camper. I think the weight difference is significant. The extra axle is a big hit on mileage, and I read somewhere it is wider--so it has increased wind resistance.

Here are some of my ideas to get the weight down lower on the 17' Escape. Using the same size wheels as are on my car, so I can delete the spare on the camper--one spare for both car and camper, carried in the car. I'd also be a fanatic on weight reduction and wind resistance in the camper.

My car is a 4 cyl Volvo 240 rated up to 3300 lbs. I'm happy driving it slow. Volvo recommends not using 5th gear and keeping the speed under 50 when hauling a trailer. I've beefed up the rear springs to carry an extra 300 lbs, and I am installing a True Trac LSD, and a bigger fuel tank for better traction and longer range, respectively. I know a few people who have towed up to 3000 lbs without a problem with this car, and at speeds up to 70mph. My goal/estimate is 22-24 mpg (US) at 55 mph.

I'm also wondering if LRR tires on the 17' campers single axle would help.

[Jim Bennett]

Fuel economy has many more factors to it than what you get while towing.

Towing with a 6 cylinder engine in many cases will drop the fuel economy by 20-30%, and I would imagine that using a 4 cylinder might be even worse.

Yes, if I use my F250 with the Powerstroke diesel to pull my 19, overall I get as good or better economy than when using my Pilot, and the performance on hills is better. HOWEVER, unhitched the Pilot outperforms the Ford hands down, it is much easier to drive around and find places to park, and is just plain more enjoyable to drive.

Because I use my Pilot for daily use, I would imagine that maybe at the most 10% of the kilometers I travel with it are towing. This brings the overall economy factor way up, and very much justifies the lesser economy when using the Pilot.

[LBaranyai]

Another option for the tighter sleeping quarters in a 17.

We just visited with amirie and her 17 and she had an extension made that pops into place between the fridge and the stove at night. One of the cushions from the smaller dinette fits it perfectly, allowing your feet to extend towards the tongue when sleeping. Since your feet require far less space then your upper body, it gives them the full width of the dinette bed to move around in.

The only disadvantage I can see is you can't raid the fridge in the middle of the night but the benefit of that is you'll soon take up less space!

[amirie]

LOL@ Lorrie at the raiding of the fridge!!!!!---the snacky--unrefridgerated items are still easily accessed in the cupboard above the fridge!!!!

[Linda]

We previously had 17ft. Escapes (two of them); we now have a 19ft. We have been happy to find out that we are getting the same mpg with our 19 as we did towing the 17s with our V8 4-Runner (15 mpg plus; we drive at 60mph or less). We had it weighed a few days ago at a truck weigh station, with the help of the official there, and it came in at 3,080 lbs. Adding the tongue weight of 372, that puts the total weight at just under 3,500 lbs. We think this is quite accurate. The above weight included the following items:
1. both 20lb. propane tanks, full (about 38 lbs. each)
2. tongue box with battery, set-up items
3. roof mount air conditioner
4. food in fridge
5. supplies (clothing, bedding, cooking and eating utensils), etc.
6. optional thermal windows and added insulation
7. all water and holding tanks were empty


When calculating tow weight, you also need to consider the extra weight added to the tow vehicle, not just in the trailer. Most vehicle owner's manuals address this. Here is a good site for calculating your tow weight: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-...eight-tt.shtml

Whatever choice one makes in an Escape trailer, you can't go wrong! It becomes an issue of personal preferences when deciding, and of course, what you are capable of towing with your particular tow vehicle. We have found that the 19ft. model is about 500 more pounds than a 17ft. model, but we still are getting the same mpg. towing our 19ft.

Our priority when driving and towing is safety first. There are lots of resources available to help with making this decision. Edmunds has a great basic article about towing (http://www.edmunds.com/how-to/how-to-tow-a-trailer.html.

Happy trails,
Linda