Repair of Delaminated Hehr Window

[rocky47]

One of the small windows on our 2018 17B delaminated 14 months after trailer delivery so we are out of warranty. ETI charges $293 CAD for a new (single pane) window packed and shipped to me. With three of these on the trailer, I figured it was worth a try to repair it. There are a couple of methods discussed on the iRV2 forums and what follows is an amalgamation of several of them. I have no idea if the repair will last a month or a decade, but I will update this thread if it fails.

First of all: Why do the windows fail? Most of the failure pictures posted look like this

I.E, the outer glass pane remains attached to the window at the top but springs out at the bottom. If you place a straight edge vertically against an intact window it may look like this:

the outer glass pane is bowed, thus placing the adhesive between the two panes in constant tension eventually leading to failure. My $0.02 theory is that this misalignment of the two panes is a result of a faulty assembly procedure which anchors the outer glass pane in the upper metal channel at an angle.


The repair: If the above theory is correct, the preferred repair would be to completely remove the outer glass pane and re-attach it in an unbowed configuration. Unfortunately, our window was so securely glued at the top that removing the outer glass pane risked breaking it, so I resorted to “plan B” as follows.
1. Remove the vent pane from the window (Instructions for doing this and for removal/reinstall of the entire window were kindly supplied by Dave Warren at ETI and are now in the manuals section of the forum). I could have removed the entire window from the trailer, but just removing the vent pane worked.
2. Clean all the bonding surfaces I could access with isopropyl alcohol.
3. Use a long-working-time structural epoxy to re-attach all the places where the separator adhesive had failed.
4. Reinforce the separator itself by filling the space out to the edge of the inner glass pane with JB Weld steel reinforced epoxy. This step takes a while since each of the 3 edges must be cured in the horizontal orientation for 4-6 hours

5. Re-install the vent pane. This step is MUCH easier if you first clean from the hinge area of the frame any stray sealant from the original window manufacturing process.
6. I did not have a pop rivet tool, so substituted 10-32 machine screws for the rivets holding the window operator.

[gbaglo]

Good luck. Hoping for the best for all with this problem.

[Eggscape]

Thanks...
I was wondering why no one has mentioned trying to fix one of these in the past year or so that I have been reading the forum.

[rubicon327]

Nice work. I bet that is better than original now. At the end of the day this may have been your best course of action.

ETI is aware of this window problem and should be working with Hehr/Lippert and covering these defective windows for than 1 year in my opinion. If the root cause of the failures is attributed to the installation as you surmise then it should be covered under Escape's 2 year warranty.

[Eggscape]

I could be wrong but I think the OP means installation/assembly at the window factory.

I checked all my windows with a straight edge and all are straight/flat except for the two front side ones on my May 2018 model 19. The drivers side is bowed in at the bottom by a 16th of an inch and the passenger side by 32nd of an inch. Hopefully this is within the ability for the adhesive to manage.

[Patandlinda]

Hi

Originally Posted by rocky47

One of the small windows on our 2018 17B delaminated 14 months after trailer delivery so we are out of warranty. ETI charges $293 CAD for a new (single pane) window packed and shipped to me. With three of these on the trailer, I figured it was worth a try to repair it. There are a couple of methods discussed on the iRV2 forums and what follows is an amalgamation of several of them. I have no idea if the repair will last a month or a decade, but I will update this thread if it fails.

First of all: Why do the windows fail? Most of the failure pictures posted look like this Attachment 40844

I.E, the outer glass pane remains attached to the window at the top but springs out at the bottom. If you place a straight edge vertically against an intact window it may look like this:Attachment 40845

the outer glass pane is bowed, thus placing the adhesive between the two panes in constant tension eventually leading to failure. My $0.02 theory is that this misalignment of the two panes is a result of a faulty assembly procedure which anchors the outer glass pane in the upper metal channel at an angle.


The repair: If the above theory is correct, the preferred repair would be to completely remove the outer glass pane and re-attach it in an unbowed configuration. Unfortunately, our window was so securely glued at the top that removing the outer glass pane risked breaking it, so I resorted to “plan B” as follows.
1. Remove the vent pane from the window (Instructions for doing this and for removal/reinstall of the entire window were kindly supplied by Dave Warren at ETI and are now in the manuals section of the forum). I could have removed the entire window from the trailer, but just removing the vent pane worked.
2. Clean all the bonding surfaces I could access with isopropyl alcohol.
3. Use a long-working-time structural epoxy to re-attach all the places where the separator adhesive had failed.Attachment 40846
4. Reinforce the separator itself by filling the space out to the edge of the inner glass pane with JB Weld steel reinforced epoxy. This step takes a while since each of the 3 edges must be cured in the horizontal orientation for 4-6 hours Attachment 40847

5. Re-install the vent pane. This step is MUCH easier if you first clean from the hinge area of the frame any stray sealant from the original window manufacturing process.
6. I did not have a pop rivet tool, so substituted 10-32 machine screws for the rivets holding the window operator.

We don’t have the frameless windows but have been watching the threads on delamination of the windows . Because I like to figure things out , my thought is the flexing of the trailer walls going down the road . Also could be combination of also owner operator too. Cranking down to hard . We do have a different design for kitchen awning window which we love , but is not the same . At orientation we were warned to be careful opening and closing that window . But as I said not the same design . Checking these windows out at RV dealerships , feel that not a very good design . Because my brothers Winnebago , new Class A had issues with his and they had to be all replaced . So maybe my theory isn’t correct . Not even fiberglass . Good for you trying to solve and fix your windows . Hope this works for you . Pat

[Eric & El]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Hi

We don’t have the frameless windows but have been watching the threads on delamination of the windows . Because I like to figure things out , my thought is the flexing of the trailer walls going down the road . Also could be combination of also owner operator too. Cranking down to hard . We do have a different design for kitchen awning window which we love , but is not the same . At orientation we were warned to be careful opening and closing that window . But as I said not the same design . Checking these windows out at RV dealerships , feel that not a very good design . Because my brothers Winnebago , new Class A had issues with his and they had to be all replaced . So maybe my theory isn’t correct . Not even fiberglass . Good for you trying to solve and fix your windows . Hope this works for you . Pat

I would agree Pat. We have one of these windows installed on our 2018 19’. I always reset the tension until the seal is just seated on all our windows when not traveling especially when stored in the sun. Perhaps a poor bond combined with the smaller surface area and high closing mechanism tension could be the reason for failure. It looks like the OP did a excellent job with that repair and I thank him for sharing.

Eric

[Iowa Dave]

That JB weld is pretty good stuff. I thought your logic was great and your repair method very solid. Hope it holds together for you. Your step by step explanation was very clear. Good Job
Iowa Dave

[rocky47]

Originally Posted by Eggscape

I could be wrong but I think the OP means installation/assembly at the window factory.

I checked all my windows with a straight edge and all are straight/flat except for the two front side ones on my May 2018 model 19. The drivers side is bowed in at the bottom by a 16th of an inch and the passenger side by 32nd of an inch. Hopefully this is within the ability for the adhesive to manage.

Eggscape is correct. I think the problem is with window manufacture at Hehr, not with the installation at ETI. My original post should have been more clear on this point.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rocky47

Eggscape is correct. I think the problem is with window manufacture at Hehr, not with the installation at ETI. My original post should have been more clear on this point.

My bad. I read it wrong. That makes sense that it is a Hehr/Lippert factory issue. Let's hope they now have this corrected.

[barry]

I was under the impression that double pane windows are vacuum sealed. It would be interesting to see if you end up with trapped moisture between the panels that fogs under certain conditions using your repair method
Barry.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by barry

I was under the impression that double pane windows are vacuum sealed. It would be interesting to see if you end up with trapped moisture between the panels that fogs under certain conditions using your repair method
Barry.

🤔 kinda thinking the same thing. Interesting to see what happens.

[Patandlinda]

Yes I missed that one too . But would be pretty upset to pay that much , out of warranty . I would probably try to fix myself too. Pat

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Yes I missed that one too . But would be pretty upset to pay that much , out of warranty . I would probably try to fix myself too. Pat

Worth a try, nothing ventured 🤔

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by barry

I was under the impression that double pane windows are vacuum sealed. It would be interesting to see if you end up with trapped moisture between the panels that fogs under certain conditions using your repair method
Barry.

Probably purged and sealed with dry nitrogen. Vacuum on that large a surface area would crack the glass.

[cpaharley2008]

another option is to allow air in and out via tiny pin holes, this should avoid fogging..

[rocky47]

Originally Posted by barry

I was under the impression that double pane windows are vacuum sealed. It would be interesting to see if you end up with trapped moisture between the panels that fogs under certain conditions using your repair method
Barry.

Good point about the fogging up. Residential multiple pane windows are often backfilled with Argon (for lower thermal conductivity) and sealed. Those sold where we live (above 5000 ft), but manufactured near sea level, are fitted with a capillary tube to equalize pressure. This does sometimes lead to issues as moisture works its way between the panes over the years.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by rocky47

Good point about the fogging up. Residential multiple pane windows are often backfilled with Argon (for lower thermal conductivity) and sealed. Those sold where we live (above 5000 ft), but manufactured near sea level, are fitted with a capillary tube to equalize pressure. This does sometimes lead to issues as moisture works its way between the panes over the years.

Our trailer is just about 6 years old now , no issues with our sliding windows , dual pane .
On our home after 1994 earthquake replaced all the windows on home with aluminum dual pane sliding windows , 25 years no issues . Did not get the argon gas between the panes because after paying extra money it was mentioned how would you know it’s there ? Nothing you can see .
In 2007 I built a Art studio on our property . The side windows on each side vinyl dual sliding windows . The used 6 ft front aluminum with dual solid pane and dual sliding on each side I acquired free from friend . 12 years no problem have no idea if argon is in that window . The 6 sliding door with dual glass , no problem .
Don’t know if living in California makes a difference .
My kids used to live in Navy housing in Washington State and had water between the dual glass . But also had mold growing through the walls . Navy since torn those down and replaced and they have their own home with dual panes and no issues . So.........
Pat

[Sowen23]

Any update on how your repair held up?

[drc1523@gmail.com]

Thank-You for your repair instructions Rock47. My 2018 7b trailer was three months out of warranty before I noticed the bathroom window frameless window failure and will now attempt to do the repair per your directions.