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03-20-2016, 10:27 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: La Verne, California
Trailer: 2016 21' Escape
Posts: 35
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Rust and possible water entry points under propane tray.
Hi Everyone,
I recently removed the propane tray on my 2016 21 and noticed a fair amount of surface rust on the frame and tray. ETI uses Tek (self tapping screws) and no washer gaskets. The rust is caused by the shavings of the screws as they are turned and vibration. The surface rust is not so much a concern as the fact that the tray clearly collects water which can enter the frame at the screws. These screws have coarse threads and can easily pull through during installation if over-torqued leaving the hole wide open. I simply installed washer gaskets between the bottom of the tray and the frame to mitigate water entry. This is a simple fix to a potential problem.
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03-20-2016, 11:16 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Steveston B.C., British Columbia
Trailer: 2012- 17'B.... 2016 Tacoma SR5 TRD
Posts: 504
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A bigger problem is that the moisture or water cant get out . A recent post showed cracking of a cross member which may have been caused by ice the same way pipes burst from freezing . Maybe drilling some small holes in the bottom might be a solution .
I would think most box frames would have ventilation some place so not to affect it's strength.
__________________
I've almost been everywhere man.
Almost been everywhere.....
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03-21-2016, 12:56 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,744
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Internal rust in tubes can be problematic, especially when the tube is fairly thin wall. Usually cars with space frames, made from light tubing, have the internal surface coated to prevent rust from weakening the structure. Not feasible, or likely, in the ETI case.
I hadn't noticed the situation with the propane tank base but it makes sense to seal the hole with a gasket. It's on my to-do list. Along with a good wire brushing of all the various external rust spots on the frame.
Ron
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03-21-2016, 05:23 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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For some reason I thought Escape drilled couple of drain holes in the the frame, they do in the trailer. I'd ask them and whether you can drill some yourself?
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-21-2016, 07:03 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Janesville, WI, Wisconsin
Trailer: Escape 19 (sold) Escape 21 2014
Posts: 1,879
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Propane Tray Rust
Here is a post on this issue on my 19. There are photos on the first and third pages. If you are seeing signs of rust it may bear further investigation.
Propane Tray Rust
__________________
Paul and Janet Braun
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 now 2012 Toyota Sequoia V8
Escape 19' 2010 now 2014 Escape 21'
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03-21-2016, 12:18 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: La Verne, California
Trailer: 2016 21' Escape
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fudge_brownie
Here is a post on this issue on my 19. There are photos on the first and third pages. If you are seeing signs of rust it may bear further investigation.
Propane Tray Rust
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Please note: The rust I described is under the tray and on the frame, not the inside of the tray. Thanks, Mark
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03-21-2016, 12:39 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Area 51, New Mexico
Trailer: pondering.....
Posts: 728
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thanks for the heads up..have to add this issue to the growing list of Escape manufacturing "oops" prior to consideration for purchase...the last "oops" being a reminder to send Escape 50 cents worth of metal washers for the rivets when they fabricate the storage case option.
Why drill anything in the square tube frames pieces except maybe to let trapped condensation flow out? Don't do anything if possible to break the primer and paint on the sq tube frame. If something needs to be bolted to the frame then weld L shaped brackets to the frame and screw to the L shaped bracket..frame and paint stays sealed and L shaped bracket is replaceable and rust/corrosion somewhat visible/repairable...
in this instance L shaped mounting points for the propane base might have been welded to the sq tube frame and even raised a bit to prevent abrasion and this would have been a non-issue possibly...wondering where else if any Escape screwed into the sq tube frame?
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03-21-2016, 01:23 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 2013 19' & 2013 15B
Posts: 2,634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freespirit
thanks for the heads up..have to add this issue to the growing list of Escape manufacturing "oops" prior to consideration for purchase...the last "oops" being a reminder to send Escape 50 cents worth of metal washers for the rivets when they fabricate the storage case option...
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Don't confuse a "one off" issue that a single owner is having with a systematic problem that effects many or all owners. Escape has been very proactive in flagging and rectifying potential problems that impact their trailers as a group. In the case of the "one off" issues that you seem overly concerned about, my experience on similar issues has been that Escape goes out of their way to provide a fix. At the end of the day, the Escape trailers are well built and highly sought after. Just look at the waiting list to get one. If you have any reservations about purchasing one, there are many alternatives for you to choose from, and someone else is sure to jump at the opportunity to take your place in line.
__________________
2013 19' \ 2013 15B, 2020 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." - 1907, Maurice Switzer
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03-21-2016, 01:41 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Area 51, New Mexico
Trailer: pondering.....
Posts: 728
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not having seen the bottom of the optional storage box..is it also mounted with self-threading screws directly into the sq tube frame and a possible point of water entry into the frame rather than to a welded bracket to the sq tube frame?
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03-21-2016, 02:14 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Area 51, New Mexico
Trailer: pondering.....
Posts: 728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice-breaker
Don't confuse a "one off" issue that a single owner is having with a systematic problem that effects many or all owners. Escape has been very proactive in flagging and rectifying potential problems that impact their trailers as a group. In the case of the "one off" issues that you seem overly concerned about, my experience on similar issues has been that Escape goes out of their way to provide a fix. At the end of the day, the Escape trailers are well built and highly sought after. Just look at the waiting list to get one. If you have any reservations about purchasing one, there are many alternatives for you to choose from, and someone else is sure to jump at the opportunity to take your place in line.
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sorry if the ant bed got kicked...but if all propane tank bases are mounted this way and this owner has a legit issue, is this a "one off" issue as you say or could it also be a potential "systemic " issue for all trailer owners? hopefully these "one off" issues can be quickly and continuously be rectified in possibly a better manufactured solution prior to future deliveries and thus mitigating the need for a DIY owner fix.
and yes we all have choices..and researching a product can sometimes change the perception of quality and value with both being left to opinion in any product.
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03-21-2016, 02:29 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Seventy Degrees"
Posts: 3,495
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Not an ant bed FS, just experienced molded fiberglass/sticky folks. I've rehabbed around 5 molded fiberglass travel trailers and now selected Escape as our permanent trailer based on experience with rehabbing other brands. Once you've worked on, restored, and camped in some of the other brands and types of trailers you'd understand why Escape folks are very high on their trailers. The resale history and availability speaks volumes on these trailers as well. Are they perfect, no, but modding, tinkering and improving the trailers is for some a major part of the hobby. If you're not convinced yet, pickup one of the used ones that may or may not still be available and use it for a couple of years then you'll know for sure. That's what we did with a used 17b and then we knew and ordered our 19 the way we wanted it.
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03-21-2016, 02:49 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Area 51, New Mexico
Trailer: pondering.....
Posts: 728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg A
Not an ant bed FS, just experienced molded fiberglass/sticky folks. I've rehabbed around 5 molded fiberglass travel trailers and now selected Escape as our permanent trailer based on experience with rehabbing other brands. Once you've worked on, restored, and camped in some of the other brands and types of trailers you'd understand why Escape folks are very high on their trailers. The resale history and availability speaks volumes on these trailers as well. Are they perfect, no, but modding, tinkering and improving the trailers is for some a major part of the hobby. If you're not convinced yet, pickup one of the used ones that may or may not still be available and use it for a couple of years then you'll know for sure. That's what we did with a used 17b and then we knew and ordered our 19 the way we wanted it.
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good points....and yes I can not help to notice that used Escapes seemed to be listed and sold in single digits and quite quickly while the other fiberglass egg looked at is listed and sold currently in the double digits and not near as fast!
also this potential camper not looking at a trailer purchase as another hobby, multiple purchase, or a constant DIY project, just want to relax and enjoy it for a while...
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03-21-2016, 03:39 PM
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#13
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,023
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It's never a problem until one person finds it and let's others know. Being proactive on issues is one of the great things about being a member of a forum, any forum. A washer isn't going to stop rust. So if ETI added a washer it won't help long term. It's like any metal with raw holes, maintenance and paint touch up are a requirement.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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03-21-2016, 03:46 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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I agree that screwing stuff into the top of the frame rails is undesirable. It is a common practice in the RV industry, and unlikely to cause any major problem... but still not the best idea. My old Boler has the propane tank tray welded onto the top of the frame: no holes, but issues for the tray paint coating.
Welded-on brackets would be great. U-bolts around the frame would be less tidy but would work fine. Welded-on mounting studs would probably work, too. Insert nuts (such as Rivuts) would still make holes, but would be better than self-tapping and should still have a sealing washer. Even screws into the side of the frame for an L-bracket would be better than screws into the top of the frame.
I note that Escape has changed from body-mounting bolts run vertically through holes in the frame rails to body-mounting brackets welded to the side of the frame rails. Perhaps a smaller-scale adjustment in propane tank bracket mounting could be next?
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03-21-2016, 03:51 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
A washer isn't going to stop rust. So if ETI added a washer it won't help long term.
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Perhaps it will, by keeping water out of the screw hole:
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.W.Deters
The surface rust is not so much a concern as the fact that the tray clearly collects water which can enter the frame at the screws.
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I simply installed washer gaskets between the bottom of the tray and the frame to mitigate water entry.
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We're not talking about a metal washer, but rather a gasket.
Of course, in the fine tradition of RVs, the real solution is to gob some sort of sealant all over the area of the screw.
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03-21-2016, 05:53 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Area 51, New Mexico
Trailer: pondering.....
Posts: 728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
I agree that screwing stuff into the top of the frame rails is undesirable. It is a common practice in the RV industry, and unlikely to cause any major problem... but still not the best idea. My old Boler has the propane tank tray welded onto the top of the frame: no holes, but issues for the tray paint coating.
Welded-on brackets would be great. U-bolts around the frame would be less tidy but would work fine. Welded-on mounting studs would probably work, too. Insert nuts (such as Rivuts) would still make holes, but would be better than self-tapping and should still have a sealing washer. Even screws into the side of the frame for an L-bracket would be better than screws into the top of the frame.
I note that Escape has changed from body-mounting bolts run vertically through holes in the frame rails to body-mounting brackets welded to the side of the frame rails. Perhaps a smaller-scale adjustment in propane tank bracket mounting could be next?
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very good ideas ..and thanks for sharing the knowledge about the Escape body mounting change....
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03-21-2016, 06:52 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Parksville, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 17B
Posts: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freespirit
not having seen the bottom of the optional storage box..is it also mounted with self-threading screws directly into the sq tube frame and a possible point of water entry into the frame rather than to a welded bracket to the sq tube frame?
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The storage box is bolted to long "L" brackets welded to the (inner) sides of the "A" frame, the bolting face of each bracket is flush with the top face of the "A" frame box members. Appropriate engineering.
__________________
David
2016 VW Touareg TDI
2014 Escape 17B "Glass Cabin"
2019 KC the Beagle
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03-21-2016, 07:12 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Area 51, New Mexico
Trailer: pondering.....
Posts: 728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David H
The storage box is bolted to long "L" brackets welded to the (inner) sides of the "A" frame, the bolting face of each bracket is flush with the top face of the "A" frame box members. Appropriate engineering.
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thank you for the information.
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03-21-2016, 07:15 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Parksville, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 17B
Posts: 148
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Attached is a picture of the storage box attachment bracket on my 17B.
__________________
David
2016 VW Touareg TDI
2014 Escape 17B "Glass Cabin"
2019 KC the Beagle
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03-23-2016, 03:47 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Went out to check my propane tray and found almost identical situation. No need to post more photos there, but while I was at it decided to chip away all the loose paint on the tongue unit that is welded on then spray painted. Whatever that paint is its not very durable. It looks like bare metal towards the front but its not, just the sun shining. Am going to use Hammerite on it all. While looking up from underneath I found that the frame rails come together and are open. No need to drill holes to let any water out. Lastly, while further inspecting have noticed some more light corrosion and feel like I'm going to be like BCNomad soon with a lot of face to the bottom of trailer time coming soon. Driving over ocean water on Hwy 1 north of San Simeon didn't help I'm sure.
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