Sleeps 5 in a 17 ft

[Brian B-P]

You could assume that the minivan can't handle the combined weight of the trailer and the passengers, or you could check the numbers. Our Sienna can handle (within the Gross Combined Weight Rating) about half a ton of passengers and cargo in addition to the maximum rated trailer weight (of 3500 pounds). Depending on the stuff carried in the van, the van's rear axle weight rating may be more of an issue than the total. Ratings and capabilities are specific to the make and model of vehicle, as well as its configuration and equipment.

As a counterpoint to the argument that you should buy a trailer that will work for you for the next two decades, and drive a series of vehicles which are chosen to match that trailer for the same period, I'll note that if your needs change (and they will as the kids grow), an Escape can usually be sold quickly for a substantial fraction of its new cost. Some of the same forum members who advocate choosing a "forever" trailer are on at least their second Escape.

While most people have a stated preference for tandem axles (a feature of current Escape model other than the 17'), I prefer a single axle in the cargo trailers that I have towed. A common reason for wanting tandem axles is stability, but I have no issue with stability of a properly loaded single-axle trailer, and I think most Escape 17' owners would agree that the trailer is stable.

[dfandrews]

Celia,
We have a 2015 17A. It will comfortably sleep 4: 2 in the permanent bed in the front, and 2 when the dining area is made up. We have the porta-potty in a cabinet under the permanent bed, and at night, it is slid out and parked in front of the door. This works well for 2 to 4. The option exists for it to reside in a 4' square (shower) tent right outside the door, as well.
From your opening inquiry comment, I assume ETI has said "no" to a goucho bunk over either the permanent bed or the dining area bed. I think it's going to be logistically too tight for 5, assuming one is on the floor, but there Is room.
(Maybe you could do like we did when the kids were little: dad occasionally slept in the back of the tow vehicle.)

Regarding weight. With the two of us we are at 2800 lbs., typically, so our 3500 lb.rating on the tow vehicle (TV) is fine. HOWEVER, if we have 4 people along, and their extra gear, we can easily exceed the GCVR (gross combined vehicle rating) for our vehicle, if we're not careful. Also, know the the 17A is typically 350-375 lbs. tongue weight, so, with gear for 5 in the trailer and more stuff in the back of the TV, you're probably going to exceed the weight rating at the rear axle.

I think you will find that the 19 would be the choice that causes your (and your family's) mindset to be "Let's go camping", more, and for more years as a family. That is, after all, the real goal.
We wish you well.

[rubicon327]

Tow vehicle limitations aside for a moment, my opinion is the 19 is most conducive to fitting 5. Just spent 5 nights with the family of 4 (kids 8 & 5) in the 19. Adults in the back bed, 2 kids can easily fit on the front bed (my kids slept this way the first night) and one over top of them in the cot. I know we all have different backgrounds and expectations but I think 5 in a 17 would be really tight. That said, if your tow vehicle is fixed and your alternative is a tent then I say go for it. Resale of an Escape is rarely an issue if you decide you need to sell it down the road.

[skyfree]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

While most people have a stated preference for tandem axles (a feature of current Escape model other than the 17'), I prefer a single axle in the cargo trailers that I have towed. A common reason for wanting tandem axles is stability, but I have no issue with stability of a properly loaded single-axle trailer, and I think most Escape 17' owners would agree that the trailer is stable.

Completely agree. I've had both tandem axles and single and much prefer the single. It's 2 less tires to deal with, and much more nimble. It's very stable. The only issue is you need to be careful going over bigger bumps because the trailer can catch air pretty easily.

Putting 5 people in a 17' though...

[rubicon327]

Oh yeah and while we were on our trip a 30 foot +/- trailer pulled in a couple sites down from us and the teenagers pitched a tent out behind it.

[NCBill]

When I grew up, five of us camped routinely in our little 14 foot Shasta. Really basic trailer, no A/C, no refrigerator, no bath, very, very tight.

My parents got the rear gaucho, probably the size of a standard TWIN bed. The two youngest got the canvas cot "bunk" that mounted over the gaucho, and my older sister got the best spot, the dinette up front.

While we "did it", the experience soured the family on camping, and my mother couldn't wait for that trailer to go!

I am the only one that kept an interest in camping.

So while you "may" be able to squeeze 5 into a 17 footer, just don't ruin the experience for everyone. A 19 would be so much easier. Large bed for mom and dad in the back, dinette in the front converts to a double bed (almost), and get a bunk above one or the other and you are done.

As the children get older, some will likely migrate to a tent or alternative sleeping arrangements.

Tow vehicle, IMHO, you are going to need to upgrade regardless of whether you go 17 foot or 19 foot. A growing family of five and gear will likely tax the payload capacity of your TV.

[Greg A]

Our kids are both in High School and have been camping in Molded glass since they were 5 and 2. Neither one has migrated to a tent like everyone told us they would, they still stay in the trailer.

[Celia]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

You could assume that the minivan can't handle the combined weight of the trailer and the passengers, or you could check the numbers. Our Sienna can handle (within the Gross Combined Weight Rating) about half a ton of passengers and cargo in addition to the maximum rated trailer weight (of 3500 pounds). Depending on the stuff carried in the van, the van's rear axle weight rating may be more of an issue than the total. Ratings and capabilities are specific to the make and model of vehicle, as well as its configuration and equipment.

As a counterpoint to the argument that you should buy a trailer that will work for you for the next two decades, and drive a series of vehicles which are chosen to match that trailer for the same period, I'll note that if your needs change (and they will as the kids grow), an Escape can usually be sold quickly for a substantial fraction of its new cost. Some of the same forum members who advocate choosing a "forever" trailer are on at least their second Escape.

1) Exactly. We're planning the use of this trailer for the next 8-10 years... Not our entire life. We will sold it when the kids won't come with us anymore.

2) I'm not sure to understand the problem to tow the 17ft Escape with a Sienna? With 2800 lbs for the trailer (our evaluation, full), we guess we have a good Martin... No?

Thanks

[Celia]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Regarding weight. With the two of us we are at 2800 lbs., typically, so our 3500 lb.rating on the tow vehicle (TV) is fine. HOWEVER, if we have 4 people along, and their extra gear, we can easily exceed the GCVR (gross combined vehicle rating) for our vehicle, if we're not careful. Also, know the the 17A is typically 350-375 lbs. tongue weight, so, with gear for 5 in the trailer and more stuff in the back of the TV, you're probably going to exceed the weight rating at the rear axle.

I think you will find that the 19 would be the choice that causes your (and your family's) mindset to be "Let's go camping", more, and for more years as a family. That is, after all, the real goal.
We wish you well.

Thanks. Is your trailer has the A/C and the cargo box on the tongue?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Celia

1) 2) I'm not sure to understand the problem to tow the 17ft Escape with a Sienna? With 2800 lbs for the trailer (our evaluation, full), we guess we have a good margin[sp].. No?

I think you'll have a hard time coming in at 2800 lbs loaded, but let's just say for the sake of argument that you do.

You'll be within the towing capacity for your Sienna, but as Brian points out, that's only part of the picture.

Your tow vehicle has a GVWR as well. That's the total weight of the vehicle itself (curb weight) as well as all contents including passengers and cargo.

The trailer also has a GVRW, which is the trailer empty weight combined with all contents.

Then, there's the GCWR, which is the maximum combined weight of the trailer with all contents, and the tow vehicle with all passengers and cargo.

So, you may have a margin with one weight spec, but not with another.



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[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Celia

2) I'm not sure to understand the problem to tow the 17ft Escape with a Sienna? With 2800 lbs for the trailer (our evaluation, full), we guess we have a good [margin]... No?

With a 3500 pound towing rating, pulling a 2800 pound trailer would leave a 700 pound margin to the trailer weight limit. That sounds good, but with some vehicles with this rating, that 700 pounds would need to cover the weight of all passengers and cargo in the vehicle... which is unlikely to be enough. Robert explained the problem:

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I think you'll have a hard time coming in at 2800 lbs loaded, but let's just say for the sake of argument that you do.

You'll be within the towing capacity for your Sienna, but as Brian points out, that's only part of the picture.

Your tow vehicle has a GVWR as well. That's the total weight of the vehicle itself (curb weight) as well as all contents including passengers and cargo.

The trailer also has a GVRW, which is the trailer empty weight combined with all contents.

Then, there's the GCWR, which is the maximum combined weight of the trailer with all contents, and the tow vehicle with all passengers and cargo.

So, you may have a margin with one weight spec, but not with another.

Exactly
A common issue is with Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)...

Example of the problem:

empty weight of tow vehicle = 4200 lb
weight of loaded trailer = 2800 lb
weight of passengers and cargo = 1000 lb
total combined weight = 8000 lb

If the GCWR is only 7900 pounds, you're over the limit (although not by much), even though you expected to have a good margin. If the GCWR is 8700 pounds, you're in good shape. If you don't know the GCWR, and don't have instructions in the owners manual which tell you how you can combine trailer weight with passenger and cargo weight, then you don't know if you have enough capacity.

The numbers in my example are not random - they correspond to a 2004 Toyota Sienna LE (2WD) pulling a 2800 pound trailer... and it has a 8700 pound GCWR. There are other vehicles which have barely enough GCWR for the rated trailer plus a driver - that would mean a 7900 pound GCWR. Some people assume that the GCWR is just enough for the trailer with no passengers or cargo, and in the absence of specific information that's the safest assumption to make.

I mentioned a Sienna as an example because that's my van, and a common model. Other brands and models have different weights and ratings. Celia, what is your vehicle?

[Chapitre]

I believe you also have to add the hitch weight to the tow vehicle.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Chapitre

I believe you also have to add the hitch weight to the tow vehicle.

Yes, when you are checking if the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR, of the tug's rear axle) would be exceeded, you do need to consider that the tongue weight is carried by the tow vehicle; the rest of the trailer weight doesn't matter for those ratings.

In the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) check - the example that I showed - the tongue weight is included as part of the total trailer weight; it doesn't matter which axle is carrying it.

[NCBill]

Very easy to run out of other weight capacities well before running out of tow rating. It's not a simple evaluation.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by NCBill

Very easy to run out of other weight capacities well before running out of tow rating. It's not a simple evaluation.

True, but it's certainly easier when you know the exact tow vehicle that will be used. Right now we don't.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

True, but it's certainly easier when you know the exact tow vehicle that will be used. Right now we don't.

it's even easier if all you look at is the dry weight of the trailer versus the vehicles towing capacity.
Far less things to calculate and far more vehicles that fit your desired outcome.

Easiest answer ; Buy a Ford F150 Eco Boost and just go camping.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Easiest answer ; Buy a Ford F150 Eco Boost and just go camping.

Well that was my solution Steve. Easy, but hardly original. [emoji1]

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Well that was my solution Steve. Easy, but hardly original. [emoji1]

You are much too modest and humble .

[dosby]

I have been thinking about fitting 5 in a 17, either B or A. I think it’s doable by installing a temporary cot over the bench on the right (see pic). It would be supported by the sink counter on one side and some sort of support plank just under the back window. This cot would be similar to the one in a 19’ trailer, only positioned across the dinette bed not alongside. Also, this cot would be limited to ~60” in length unless the sink faucet is moved or removed. And by weight, like 100 lbs max.
Should be better than sleeping on the floor, although some accidental stepping on each other would still be possible at night.
The people underneath (females?) would sleep with their feet under this cot.

[gbaglo]

I can't see how you get to sleep five. I sleep with my feet under the counter extension ( on the right ), along with my wife. That's two. Add one in the bunk is three. One at the front dinette / bed is four.
If that person sleeping in the bunk gets up in the night for a pee, they'll find themselves outside sleeping under the trailer.