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03-01-2014, 11:25 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Morro Bay, California
Trailer: 2016 Escape 21
Posts: 330
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Great video! And now I have many questions! They run their fridge on battery/solar during the day and switch to propane at night. With the Escape factory installed solar and dual 6 volt batteries will we be able to do this? Does the Escape factory installed solar come with an inverter (I don't believe it does, but now I'm not sure)? Thanks!
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03-01-2014, 11:30 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bellingham and Glacier, Washington
Trailer: 2013 Escape 15A
Posts: 2,051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneM.
Great video! And now I have many questions! They run their fridge on solar during the day and switch to propane at night. With the Escape factory installed solar and dual 6 volt batteries will we be able to do this? Does the Escape factory installed solar come with an inverter (I don't believe it does, but now I'm not sure)? Thanks!
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Running the refer off the batteries will consume a lot of power. When off-grid, I always just run it on propane. No, the solar upgrade does not include an inverter.
__________________
Karen Hulford
2013 Escape 15A, "Egbert"
'93 Ford 150 XLT or
'22 GMC Acadia Denali
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03-02-2014, 07:07 AM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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I think you would need a cargo van to pull your Escape with, if you wanted to bring all the gadgetry those folks had. For me, that is at the total opposite end of the spectrum from my camping style, preferring to keep things simple.
But, we all have our different needs as consumers. I have a good friend who is totally into all that stuff, and we camp with them all the time. Of course, unless we are headed somewhere early, we often never see them until mid morn.
This is their motorhome, plus they added on lots of stuff too, solar, 4 batteries, auto-leveling jacks, etc. I could buy a few of my trailers for the same cost. But, they have the money, and they love it. It is also WAY downsized from what they are used to.
Itasca Motorhomes - 2014 Reyo
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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03-02-2014, 07:57 AM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Trailer: 2017 Bigfoot 25
Posts: 275
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Even though the fridge uses very little propane, I like the idea of running the it off the inverter during the day if it is practical. Why burn $$ if you don't have to?
In our trailer the inverter is only wired to a single outlet. I understand the newer ones have a transfer switch, but I wonder if the fridge outlet is included in that circuit.
I also wonder what the wattage of the fridge is on A/C?
In the end, over a month we used 1 tank of propane, and just started on the second one, not exactly a deal breaker. The cost of setting it up might be more than I'd save over 10 years.
__________________
DeadEye Dan
2017 Bigfoot 25 Rear Bed
2017 RAM 2500 Cummins Diesel
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03-02-2014, 08:20 AM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Felton, California
Trailer: 2018 21' ; 2014 19' (Sold)
Posts: 1,301
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Too much?
Wow, the Reyo is very nice looking. I was imagining something like:
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03-02-2014, 08:26 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Felton, California
Trailer: 2018 21' ; 2014 19' (Sold)
Posts: 1,301
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I also wonder what the wattage of the fridge is on A/C?
That would be nice to know. Perhaps someone has their specs handy as I can't seem to find them on line.
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03-02-2014, 08:39 AM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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I think they are operating it off 12v, not 120v with an inverter. Your refer is 3 way, 120/12v and propane. Yes you can operate it off 12v with full sun, but why. The whole premise of the video was not paying for electric nor propane and using the sun as much as possible. You can do the same but I'm not into trying to save $1/propane since the majority of us are not full timers, they are.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-02-2014, 09:38 AM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 743
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Our experience is that you can't run the fridge off 12v/solar. Not enough power, it will still draw your battery down. I suppose it might be possible in ideal conditions, but you can never count on ideal conditions... I think you'd need a lot larger solar array than the single panel ETI provides.
__________________
Doug
2013 Escape 19 ("The Dog House") , 2018 Ford F150
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03-02-2014, 10:21 AM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Replacing cheap propane with ultra-expensive solar-sourced electricity in an RV makes sense to me only if you are trying to stay somewhere longer than a big tank of propane will last. If you do run an absorption-type refrigerator on electricity, it doesn't matter for efficiency of the appliance itself whether you use AC or DC, but the AC mode will lose efficiency due to inverter power loss; on the other hand, some of these refrigerators have bigger heating elements on AC than DC, so the DC option might not cool enough.
One mode which does make sense to me is to run the refrigerator on 12V DC whenever the battery is fully charged and the solar panels are generating power which would otherwise be wasted. You might have trouble measuring the bit of propane saved, but it would be using free energy instead of paying to burn non-renewable fossil fuel.
The appliance manuals provide specs, but the electric elements in these refrigerators commonly run around 100W to 120W, so 8 to 10 amps... double what a compressor-type refrigerator would use. That's while running, of course: the unit cycles on an off, staying on enough to maintain the set temperature (very roughly).
There are lots of expedition campers running refrigeration entirely on solar, but as Doug suggests they have big panels; they also use compressor-type refrigerators.
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03-02-2014, 10:27 AM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Morro Bay, California
Trailer: 2016 Escape 21
Posts: 330
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Thanks everyone! I have no desire to have all their gadgetry or big rig! I love our small trailers and am definitely a minimalist, but I was wondering about running the fridge off the battery. (They have dual 6v and note they need 4 batteries for all the solar they are running.). We use propane when dry camping, but if this were an option it would stretch the propane.
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03-02-2014, 10:41 AM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 2013 19' & 2013 15B
Posts: 2,634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneM.
... We use propane when dry camping, but if this were an option it would stretch the propane.
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At the rate of propane usage stated in the owners manual for my 6.7 fridge, a 20 lb propane tank should last for between 3 and 4 weeks. That assumes continuous 24 hr per day fridge operation with no other drains on your propane ( ie hot water, stove, furnace, BBQ, etc). At the rates I paid for propane on my last tank, that is about $0.75 per day.
__________________
2013 19' \ 2013 15B, 2020 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." - 1907, Maurice Switzer
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03-02-2014, 10:44 AM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Morro Bay, California
Trailer: 2016 Escape 21
Posts: 330
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That's great information - thanks! Since we don't yet have our trailer, I don't have an owners manual to check these things.
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03-02-2014, 10:44 AM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N/A, Indiana
Trailer: Escape
Posts: 976
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The Dometic RM8551, 4.3 cubic ft. refrig in our 2013 19' Escape uses 11 amps in the 12V mode. The realistic maximum output of one 95W photovoltaic solar panel (in full sun) installed by ETI is 7 amps.
__________________
"Never argue with an idiot. They only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin
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03-02-2014, 10:48 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Morro Bay, California
Trailer: 2016 Escape 21
Posts: 330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal
The Dometic RM8551, 4.3 cubic ft. refrig in our 2013 19' Escape uses 11 amps in the 12V mode. The realistic maximum output of one 95W photovoltaic solar panel (in full sun) installed by ETI is 7 amps.
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Wow, that's great information! Thanks!
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03-03-2014, 09:31 AM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Trailer: 2017 Bigfoot 25
Posts: 275
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Doesn't leave much for charging if using a 90W array. Our fridge is only A/C and LP, no DC mode. Or last fridge was 3 mode and we never used the DC mode.
Yeah sounds fun, but not particularly practicle.
__________________
DeadEye Dan
2017 Bigfoot 25 Rear Bed
2017 RAM 2500 Cummins Diesel
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03-03-2014, 11:53 AM
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#56
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: lima, Prince Edward Island
Trailer: none
Posts: 44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal
The Dometic RM8551, 4.3 cubic ft. refrig in our 2013 19' Escape uses 11 amps in the 12V mode. The realistic maximum output of one 95W photovoltaic solar panel (in full sun) installed by ETI is 7 amps.
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Could you explain more about the maximum output of the 95w being 7 amps? When I look at the go power site it states the rated current is 5.53 amps?
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03-03-2014, 12:02 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Has anyone determined what their tow vehicle 12v output is? Between the solar and your tow vehicle you should have adequate supply and still have your battery providing the difference.
Remember the refer normally has a 50% run time so it is using perhaps 6 amps per hour, your solar is providing 5-7 per hour, your tow vehicle maybe another 2-3 per hour, I see no issue with the 12v set up while towing in daylight. Now night time, with the running lights on and no solar there maybe an issue.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-03-2014, 12:13 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N/A, Indiana
Trailer: Escape
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cargofool
Could you explain more about the maximum output of the 95w being 7 amps? When I look at the go power site it states the rated current is 5.53 amps?
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On GP site the 95W panel specs are 5.53A @ 17.2 volts. 5.53A x 17.2V = 95 W. The regulator/controller regulates the voltage and amperage charge to the batteries. When our two 6v batteries were depleted to 45% the digital read out on the regulator/controller showed 7A. The regulated amperage and voltage charge rate is dependent on the batteries state of charge. As the voltage rate goes down the amperage goes up. 95 watt panel @ 12V and 7.91A =95W
__________________
"Never argue with an idiot. They only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin
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03-03-2014, 03:32 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cargofool
Could you explain more about the maximum output of the 95w being 7 amps? When I look at the go power site it states the rated current is 5.53 amps?
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To get 95 W from 5.53 A would be 17.18 V - I assume that the peak power conditions (I MP and V MP) are 5.53 A would be 17.18 V, and that might be called the "rated" conditions. One Go Power page for a 95 W panel lists 17.5 V at 5.53 A as the "rated" current and voltage (which is closet to 97 W). If there were no load on the panel (a short circuit), the current could be much higher (I sc - not listed on that Go Power page). At 12 volts, 95W would be 7.9 amps, but the panel can't do that (can't produce 95 W at that voltage), because it is not in its optimal peak power state.
7 amps sounds like an estimate of what the panel might put out into a battery which is discharged to a very low state, so the charging voltage is low (around 12V); without charging a battery, connected to a load with the right resistance to result in 12V, the current would be the same. In this example, the assumption is that at 12V (instead of the ideal 17.5 V) the panel can only produce about 84 W (12V * 7A). Even in full sun, the current would decrease as the battery charges and the voltage comes up.
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03-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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As always, "amps per hour" doesn't make sense, so here's what I think Jim is saying:
Remember the refer normally has a 50% run time so it is using perhaps 6 amps, your solar is providing 5-7 amps, your tow vehicle maybe another 2-3 amps, I see no issue with the 12v set up while towing in daylight.
or
Remember the refer normally has a 50% run time so it is using perhaps 6 amp-hours per hour, your solar is providing 5-7 amp-hours per hour, your tow vehicle maybe another 2-3 amp-hours per hour, I see no issue with the 12v set up while towing in daylight.
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