Testing the integrity of the electrical connection before plugging into the RV

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

On a somewhat related note, we carry a 50 amp to 30 amp adapter just in case the shoreline pedestal power is fine but the 30 amp outlet happens to be corrupted (https://www.campingworld.com/power-g...-to-30a-female). We've used it once and loaned it out once to a neighboring camper. It's a handy thing to have - just in case.

I've also used the 50 to 30 amp adapter at a site. At one campground they gave us their "prime" site (their words) and once we pulled in we found the 30 amp power didn't work at all. The adapter was an easy solution.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

On a somewhat related note, we carry a 50 amp to 30 amp adapter just in case the shoreline pedestal power is fine but the 30 amp outlet happens to be corrupted (https://www.campingworld.com/power-g...-to-30a-female). We've used it once and loaned it out once to a neighboring camper. It's a handy thing to have - just in case.

Thanks for the reminder. Found a 12” one at Amazon too

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[MyronL]

This is a timely thread for me. Just returned from an 8 day trip to Arizona where it currently is in the triple digits. Stayed at a full hookups RV park, 30 amp service. Turned the ac on and it ran for awhile, along with the fridge and the television, then it all shut down. The WFCO breaker for AC clicked off. This scenario continued to repeat itself several times. I switched to a 50 amp connection on the pedestal but that did not help.

The park sent an electrician to check if the problem was at their pedestal. It was not. Then we noticed the display on my Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protector, which I had installed back in 2016, did not show any amps draw from the appliances. This surge protector had always been just fine.

But that was odd, so I decided to disconnect and remove the surge protector - eliminate it as a factor. And...there’s your problem. Everything now good, the AC blasted away, we cooked a meal for 10 minutes in the microwave, etc. Home now, still looking for my receipt from Progressive Industries so I can call them up.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MyronL

... Stayed at a full hookups RV park, 30 amp service. Turned the ac on and it ran for awhile, along with the fridge and the television, then it all shut down. The WFCO breaker for AC clicked off. This scenario continued to repeat itself several times.
...
The park sent an electrician to check if the problem was at their pedestal. It was not. Then we noticed the display on my Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protector, which I had installed back in 2016, did not show any amps draw from the appliances. This surge protector had always been just fine.

But that was odd, so I decided to disconnect and remove the surge protector - eliminate it as a factor. And...there’s your problem.

It may have been a park power problem, but there is key information missing. Since everything shut off, it was presumably the EMS shutting off, but you don't mention resetting it. There should have been a reason for it to shut off, but you don't mention any condition code - did the voltage go too low, as shown by the EMS?

The air conditioner breaker tripping is interesting, and since I don't see any way that an EMS problem could cause a breaker to trip, it suggests to me that something else was going on.

[MyronL]

Something was going on alright, but this wasn't a park problem. The place has a hundred big boy rigs all around us and no other complaints.

I think the display showed an error message initially but I didn't take good notice of that. In the next hour or so when the power to the fridge on shore power, and the television, and first the AC all on shore power would suddenly cut off there were no error messages. That sequence of breakers tripping happened probably 3-4 times. I re set breakers each time but nothing got resolved. AC would come on, then cut off after a minute, strangely, along with all shore powered appliances. But they checked the pedestal and found it good. Later in the day the breakers stopped clicking off but power to the appliances continued to fail. I opened the surge protector lid and there's a fuse in there but it was good. Nothing in there looked wrong. Must conclude the thing developed a mother board issue. (??)

It wasn't until a discussion with Doug that we decided the surge protector display not indicating amperage-- "00A" is what it read -was a flag, so I decided to physically remove the surge protector. Then, from that on for the remainder of the trip everything worked great.... and with temps in the 102-104°F range, we were very happy to have that AC running.

[Chris & Patricia]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Something was going on alright, but this wasn't a park problem. The place has a hundred big boy rigs all around us and no other complaints.

I think the display showed an error message initially but I didn't take good notice of that. In the next hour or so when the power to the fridge on shore power, and the television, and first the AC all on shore power would suddenly cut off there were no error messages. That sequence of breakers tripping happened probably 3-4 times. I re set breakers each time but nothing got resolved. AC would come on, then cut off after a minute, strangely, along with all shore powered appliances. But they checked the pedestal and found it good. Later in the day the breakers stopped clicking off but power to the appliances continued to fail. I opened the surge protector lid and there's a fuse in there but it was good. Nothing in there looked wrong. Must conclude the thing developed a mother board issue. (??)

It wasn't until a discussion with Doug that we decided the surge protector display not indicating amperage-- "00A" is what it read -was a flag, so I decided to physically remove the surge protector. Then, from that on for the remainder of the trip everything worked great.... and with temps in the 102-104°F range, we were very happy to have that AC running.

We had a problem with our surge protector, in fact it had a failure and ended up having a flash inside and caused a searing inside the box. However, I found out that there is a lifetime warranty on EMS surge protectors and you may want to call them and find out if they can send you a new one at their expense. They did for us.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MyronL

In the next hour or so when the power to the fridge on shore power, and the television, and first the AC all on shore power would suddenly cut off there were no error messages. That sequence of breakers tripping happened probably 3-4 times. I re set breakers each time but nothing got resolved. AC would come on, then cut off after a minute, strangely, along with all shore powered appliances.

Can anyone explain how the EMS could cause the appliances to draw so much current that the breakers trip?

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Can anyone explain how the EMS could cause the appliances to draw so much current that the breakers trip?

If the EMS was quickly turning on and off the power, the chatter could cause the A/C breaker to trip due to the high starting current of the compressor trying to start multiple times.

Motors ( ie inductive loads like a A/C compressor) will also pull more current when the voltage is low which could cause the breaker to trip. The EMS shouldn't have let the voltage supplied to the trailer get that low before it cut all power so it still points to what may be a faulty EMS unit.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

If the EMS was quickly turning on and off the power, the chatter could cause the A/C breaker to trip due to the high starting current of the compressor trying to start multiple times.

If the locked rotor current is over 20 amps, I can see that. It doesn't explain the rest of the circuits - none have large motor (or other inductive) loads. It seems like it would also be noticeably abnormal to someone in the trailer.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

If the locked rotor current is over 20 amps, I can see that. It doesn't explain the rest of the circuits - none have large motor (or other inductive) loads. It seems like it would also be noticeably abnormal to someone in the trailer.

Just looked it up - Dometic Penquin II locked rotor current - 53 amps
http://www.dyersonline.com/downloadf...tfile_id/3791/

Was the breaker for the A/C the only breaker that was tripping or was there more?

[MyronL]

Only the ac breaker tripped, but when it happened shore power to the tv, the fridge and the microwave also shut down. As mentioned, a bit later this would continue to happen but now without a breaker tripping.

[rubicon327]

Whole thing sounds strange but kudos to Myron for persevering and getting the power on for the A/C. No fun being in 100 degF plus weather and dealing with that. Personally I would reinstall it and try it again on power at home just to be sure, but maybe a call to Progressive Industries is in order first. If they send you a new one then you are only doing the work once.

Progressive Industries, Inc. | Rv Surge Protection

On edit: just saw your last post. My guess was that really only A/C breaker was tripping. The rest shutdown because the EMS detected a problem. I’m going with low voltage since you said a hundred big boys around you running A/C. I bet you reinstall it and all is fine.

[MyronL]

Yet, why didn't the Progressive display indicate any amp draw? And remember I also switched me from their 30 to their 50 amp plug. Got Progressives' help number, will be calling Monday. Their promised lifetime warranty does make me feel better about the situation.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Yet, why didn't the Progressive display indicate any amp draw? And remember I also switched me from their 30 to their 50 amp plug. Got Progressives' help number, will be calling Monday. Their promised lifetime warranty does make me feel better about the situation.

Not sure. Just curious...before removing the EMS did you try the unit bypass or OFF position? This takes out the smarts and only the surge protection is active.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Only the ac breaker tripped, but when it happened shore power to the tv, the fridge and the microwave also shut down. As mentioned, a bit later this would continue to happen but now without a breaker tripping.

Okay, that's different. I was working with this description:

Originally Posted by MyronL

That sequence of breakers tripping happened probably 3-4 times. I re set breakers each time but nothing got resolved. AC would come on, then cut off after a minute, strangely, along with all shore powered appliances.

So, not "breakers", but "breaker"... or maybe the A/C and main breakers, not the other circuits. Small wording difference, but big difference in electrical situation.

Rapidly cycling by the EMS is looking like an excellent hypothesis.

[MyronL]

I spoke today to the tech guy at Progressive (Dave, 1-800-307-6702 press 2). He likes the low voltage at the big RV Park theory. Said reinstall unit to see how it goes. I reinstalled the surge protector. Ran AC all afternoon, no problems! For good measure I also turned fridge on to shore power and simultaneously ran the microwave for two minutes. No problem. All is good.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by MyronL

I spoke today to the tech guy at Progressive (Dave, 1-800-307-6702 press 2). He likes the low voltage at the big RV Park theory. Said reinstall unit to see how it goes. I reinstalled the surge protector. Ran AC all afternoon, no problems! For good measure I also turned fridge on to shore power and simultaneously ran the microwave for two minutes. No problem. All is good.

Nice work Myron. Glad you are back in running order. Just a note from your picture...make sure you have the black wire on the trailer (load) side through the black current sensing donut to measure amps properly. It doesn’t appear to be hooked up unless my eyes are playing tricks on me. You can see it on mine clearly. It has the white sticker on top. It does have a proper orientation too with the arrow side of the sensor facing the relay.

[cpaharley2008]

So the EMS was working correct all along and keeping low voltage from entering your unit? If so, you bypassing the unit to operate the a/c might have done some harm?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

So the EMS was working correct all along and keeping low voltage from entering your unit? If so, you bypassing the unit to operate the a/c might have done some harm?

Possibly, but it sounds like Myron's A/C is running ok. I wonder if the voltage was just hovering down near the cutoff and right on the ragged edge of the EMS cut off. What is still odd to me is the breaker tripping because if it was pulling more amperage in a low voltage condition that should have occured even with the EMS bypassed or removed and it didn't.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Possibly, but it sounds like Myron's A/C is running ok. I wonder if the voltage was just hovering down near the cutoff and right on the ragged edge of the EMS cut off. What is still odd to me is the breaker tripping because if it was pulling more amperage in a low voltage condition that should have occured even with the EMS bypassed or removed and it didn't.

There needs to be a substantial delay between restarts of the A/C compressor to prevent over current conditions. The EMS should prevent power from being reapplied for 136 seconds to prevent the compressor from trying to restart with a high head pressure condition and associated high current demand. If the EMS delay was set to the factory default 15 seconds, it is very possible the quick restart caused the A/C breaker to trip.

Bypassing the EMS would have prevented the low voltage shutdown and the quick restart sequence.

Myron, is the jumper pulled on the EMS to set the start delay to 2 minutes?