water heater

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by J Mac

I think you must mean pounds left in the tank. Assuming propane weighs the same as water or 10 pounds +- per gallon.
It's easy to weigh an empty tank and a full tank and get an idea of whats in a questionable tank.

Once I had a tank filled and it took 4.8 U.S. gallons. One of the times I unknowingly refilled a tank when it had still propane in it, it took 3.3 gallons. On that occasion I had picked up the tank, swished it around, and still couldn't tell it had propane in it. On that occasion I even used the expensive Dometic gas checker gizmo and it still fooled me. Guess I used it wrong.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

That thing doesn't work very well, or at least mine doesn't. It will show half-green half-red sometimes, and since I don't know what that means I will move the lever to the other tank when the first one still has propane in it. It has fooled me more than once.

Hi Mike . I believe if you have 2 tanks turn them both on when you want to use . we have automatic changeover and it has worked for me . if you think one tank is empty it will be totally red . It will if you have both tanks turned on switched over . When you see this flip your lever over to other tank . If it is not totally red it is not empty yet . I know it was confusing for me at first but actually is a great system . That front gauge is telling you if it is time to refill . All you need to do is turn both on so it can operate automatically . Hope this helps . Pat

[J Mac]

I was wrong, I just checked the Internet and a gallon of propane weighs 4.24 lbs. a gallon of water weighs 8.34 lbs. In Canada, where metric is used a litre of water weighs one kilo or 2.2 pounds. A litre of propane weighs just over half a kilo.

[fudge_brownie]

This points out a second advantage of refilling tanks. I noticed this "flip over" occurs before the tank is completely empty, probably using a pressure sensor. When refilling your tanks you retain this residual.

[J Mac]

I think we're nickle and dimeing the point here. The biggest issue, for me anyway, is the inconvenience of an empty tank. The tank swap gives me a safe, painted , 80 percent full tank in about a minute. I've waited for half an hour to get a tank filled before.

[J Mac]

The RV Doctor: Testing a Propane Automatic Changeover Valve

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

To keep you from lifting too much the exchange tanks are only filled with 15 pounds of propane, rather than the capacity of 20 pounds

I assume that this is said firmly tongue-in-cheek, as it's not our backs they're trying to save!

Originally Posted by J Mac

For safety reasons that's as full as I want a propane tank. Fill a tank in rainy Vancouver 22 degrees, drive to Osoyoose where its 36 degrees and you may wish your tank was only 80 percent filled due to expansion.

A "20 pound" tank with 20 pounds of propane in it is only 80% full by volume. No semi-competent fill operator will put in more, and it would be tough to do even deliberately with the idiot-resistant Overfill Prevention Device, although I'm sure it was done in the past. 20 pounds is the design capacity, allowing for 20% empty space in the tank (it would take 25 pounds of propane to completely fill the space in the tank). There is no safety issue with putting all of the 20 pounds in.

Originally Posted by J Mac

The tank swap gives me a safe, painted , 80 percent full tank in about a minute.

A tank fill may take longer, but it also gives you an 80% (by volume) filled tank. The swap typically gives you from 15 to 17 pounds of propane, so it is 60% to 72% full by volume.

Exchange tanks are painted (and usually wrapped in a plastic sleeve which should be removed), but they are not recertified. It is arguable where or not the repainting is of much value, but they are clean and nice looking.

The waiting is usually for someone "qualified" to fill a tank to be available. If the swap can be done by any store clerk, there's less likely to be a wait; if only one guy has the keys to the exchange cage, it may be just as slow. I'm guessing that swapping is normally much faster.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by J Mac

The RV Doctor: Testing a Propane Automatic Changeover Valve

Very interesting. Thanks.

[J Mac]

Exchange program

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by J Mac

Exchange program

Just to be clear, when this supplier says

Our cylinders are filled at no more than 80% of their capacity. (Code can/cga-b149.2)

... they mean that the 8 kilograms (as shown on their label) that they put in is "no more than" (and in fact much less than) what would fill the tank to 80% of it's total volume. I think it's hilarious that they celebrate "20 year" (of something) on the label in the photo, just coincidentally on a product that consumers expect to contain 20 pounds... but doesn't.

8 kg = 17.6 lbs = 70% of the tank volume (= what they think they can get away with)
9.1 kg = 20 lb = 80% of tank volume (= full)

Some exchange suppliers have actually put in 9 kg, although I haven't seen this for a while.

A common supplier of exchange tanks is Blue Rhino. They've been underfilling for a very long time, and are perhaps the most extreme (worst). From their FAQ

Inflationary pressures, including the volatile costs of steel, diesel fuel, and propane, have had a significant impact on the cylinder exchange industry. In 2008, to help control these rising costs, Blue Rhino followed the example of other consumer products companies with a product content change. We reduced the amount of propane in our tanks from 17 pounds to 15 pounds.

Yep, after years of selling 17 pounds in a 20-pound tank, they now sell them with only 3/4 of the contents they should have, to make it look like they were not increasing their price. "New, improved, smaller box of cereal for the same old price!"

[cpaharley2008]

My number of refills is more than it should be, since I have problems telling when a tank is actually empty and will sometimes take one to be refilled when it has a gallon or two left in it. Doesn't affect the total cost, though.

I thought you only get charged for what is put into the tank, if it is half full then only half the amount? At least that is what I observed at several cg, they only charged for what was put in, similar to gas.

[Brian B-P]

Since the propane tank filling thing is getting carried away (for a water heater thread) people might want to look back at one of the previous passes at this subject:

• Just purchased an older Escape 17B - starting at post #13
• Propane levels - starting at post #3

There are others that get into more detail about tank exhanges and other sources of propane.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I thought you only get charged for what is put into the tank, if it is half full then only half the amount? At least that is what I observed at several cg, they only charged for what was put in, similar to gas.

I didn't say that clearly. I was trying to say that the total cost of the propane over time isn't affected by refilling the tank when it is already partially full. So yes, the propane is metered like gasoline.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

So yes, the propane is metered like gasoline.

That depends on location. Here in Alberta (and everywhere else I've bought propane in Canada), small (under 100 pound) tanks are almost all filled at a fixed price per fill (without metering), regardless of how much was already in the tank (and so how little is pumped into the tank). One Trillium (not Escape) owner switched to a forklift tank with a fast-fill port, which allows him to fill from the meter (just like a motor vehicle or motorhome), avoiding this problem. Again, this comes up every time the subject is discussed, which is often as new people get involved and have questions.

[gbaglo]

I buy my propane at the Mowhawk / Husky here in North Vancouver and I pay by the pound, not by the fill. Can't remember the last time it was suggested that I should pay by fill anywhere in my BC travels. I'm sure they are out there.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I buy my propane at the Mowhawk / Husky here in North Vancouver and I pay by the pound, not by the fill. Can't remember the last time it was suggested that I should pay by fill anywhere in my BC travels. I'm sure they are out there.

I fill at a local Husky here and they will charge me less if the tank was partially full to start.

[Vermilye]

As Brian noted, it depends. In my home town of Oswego, NY I can get a 20 lb tank filled for $10.00, however they charge the same no matter what is in the tank. Other suppliers go from $12.00 to around $15.00 to do the same. We don't have a supplier (including the area propane supplier) that will fill small, portable tanks by meter.

The last by meter fill I had was in a Rugby ND Co Op - 4 gallons for $15.00. Unless you are running low it pays to shop around!

[float5]

The place near us charges for a full tank even if half full.

[rbryan4]

I guess it depends on what the practice is in your area, but I would hate to buy a full tank when I'm only getting half. There's a Propane shop around here that charges $2.00 per gallon, and you only pay for what you get. They're religious though about the tank stamp, so you can't hand them an expired tank and expect them to fill it.

We were bone dry on both tanks when I filled them there awhile back, and the charge was $16.50. Not too shabby.

[BCnomad]

Nk'Mip currently charges $.80/pound here. Must remember for next year.