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Old 10-19-2015, 08:56 PM   #41
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I knew it was a different install, but the tape did not fail, the panels did due to the install.
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Old 10-20-2015, 05:56 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
Thanks cpaharley,
It appears in this thread's case the solar panel is flush to the trailer and taped on all four edges, flush to the trailer not off set and taped on just two sides. Different from the solar panels this discussion is about.
That's true, but you mentioned in this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...tml#post115105 "Zero issues so far but they will one day because 'double back foam tape' dries out. And when it dries out, it releases." The point of Norm's post is the time he has had a solar panel on the roof of his Scamp with no problems with the tape drying out.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:17 AM   #43
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That's true, but you mentioned in this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...tml#post115105 "Zero issues so far but they will one day because 'double back foam tape' dries out. And when it dries out, it releases." The point of Norm's post is the time he has had a solar panel on the roof of his Scamp with no problems with the tape drying out.
Thank you for trying to correct me Donna. My first post was "i'll never understand why anyone would install a solar panel using 'double back tape'". I still wonder that. It seems that double back tape, in some way caused a failure in your referenced post as well. I still stand by the fact that foam tape eventually dries out and when it does it releases. Your referenced post has a trailer owner removing his panel after 3 or 4 years. That particular tape, I can only guess, hadn't dried out yet but seems to have come away from the trailer without leaving a mark.
I can only guess that the fact that foam tape fails is the reason that Escape no longer uses it in solar panel installs.
Or, better still, ask FMLNM th OP of the thread "Our solar panel blew off" what he thinks about foam tape.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:58 AM   #44
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3M has a wealth of applications for their hundreds of tapes - glazing tapes have been holding windows in skyscrapers for decades and semi-trailer skins are taped on now (not riveted.) Closed cell tapes don't "dry out."

3Mâ„¢ VHBâ„¢ Structural Glazing Tapes for Specified Construction
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:19 AM   #45
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3M has a wealth of applications for their hundreds of tapes - glazing tapes have been holding windows in skyscrapers for decades and semi-trailer skins are taped on now (not riveted.) Closed cell tapes don't "dry out."

3Mâ„¢ VHBâ„¢ Structural Glazing Tapes for Specified Construction
Good point. I doubt however the mentioned solar panels in this discussion used the 3M Architectural Panel tape, 3M primers, 3M Adhesion Promoters, or 15psi pressure over entire field with 3M applied Weather Proofing Sealants. But they may have.
Everything eventually "drys out".
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:29 AM   #46
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These applications are weather protected in that the wall or glass seals the tape from the weather whereas on our roof, unless the edges are sealed with proflex, there are exposed edges.
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:25 PM   #47
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All I know is that I don't want to be the defendant in an injury lawsuit because I had something attached to my trailer with tape of any type that failed for whatever the reason. Frankly, I'm glad that ETI recognized a potential liability and provided a fix. I know my panel is not blowing off unless it takes some chunks of fiberglass with it.
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Old 10-20-2015, 04:49 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
Or, better still, ask FMLNM th OP of the thread "Our solar panel blew off" what he thinks about foam tape.
Not to put too fine a point on it, our panel was installed with epoxy not tape....so we have no opinion on that. However, we do use VHB molding tape to secure the awning tracks for our homemade awnings over the various windows. (Basically the same design as Techfan.) They've been on for 2 years with no problem but I might take a cue from Techfan and run some sealant over the top of each rail to minimize tape degradation. If the tape DID degrade there would be no real issue since the approximately 3 foot x 1 inch plastic awning rails could easily be replaced and would not pose a hazard if they broke loose.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:41 AM   #49
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The photo you posted in thread 25 of 'our solar panel blew off' shows tape and epoxy.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:57 AM   #50
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The panels were mounted low to help reduce wind loading and I will fabricate a front " wind deflector" and " side skirts" and attach with the same 3m tape and sikaflex to maybe help in seeing degradation of the tape and sikaflex.

Overall AM solar is really confident in this approach. By keeping wind from getting under the panels and regular inspections I'm hopeful this is sufficient.
ETI told me that the flying panels happened due to high cross-winds; I can see how that would add "uplift" under a panel that overhangs the crowned center. I learned this after I installed ABS wind deflectors with 3M RP45 tape on the leading edge of my panel.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:33 AM   #51
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ETI told me that the flying panels happened due to high cross-winds; I can see how that would add "uplift" under a panel that overhangs the crowned center. I learned this after I installed ABS wind deflectors with 3M RP45 tape on the leading edge of my panel.
Interesting. I'm wondering how an aerodynamicists would view your deflector. I'm wondering if the vortex created would cause a massive low pressure area on the top of the panel, creating lift and wanting to pull the panel upwards.

Just musing, I wouldn't worry about that situation in my case because I wouldn't have panels on my roof that weren't mechanically fastened.

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Old 10-21-2015, 11:38 AM   #52
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Charlie, That deflector is just what I'm thinking. Did you add side skirts also ? Reese also told me it was high cross that caused the failures.

I still believe that improper install techniques were a contributor to the failures, but yes, "Taping" anything down atop an Rv that is subject to heavy wind loads is of concern.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:01 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by J Mac View Post
The photo you posted in thread 25 of 'our solar panel blew off' shows tape and epoxy.
There was no tape in our installation. What you see is just the remaining epoxy and the impressions of the rails in the remaining epoxy.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:35 PM   #54
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I'd say vibration and flexing of the shell, add some heat cold cycling, and the the bond Is failing. Add a gust of wind and the panel finally comes loose. The gust isn't the cause it's just the 'last straw'.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:35 PM   #55
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There was no tape in our installation. What you see is just the remaining epoxy and the impressions of the rails in the remaining epoxy.
I think I was mistaking the broken gel coat in your photo for torn foam tape.
Sorry.
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:13 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
Interesting. I'm wondering how an aerodynamicists would view your deflector. I'm wondering if the vortex created would cause a massive low pressure area on the top of the panel, creating lift and wanting to pull the panel upwards.

Just musing, I wouldn't worry about that situation in my case because I wouldn't have panels on my roof that weren't mechanically fastened.

Ron
Actually my deflectors are 6 inch wide pieces with 1/8th inch in between so it follows the crown - losing one piece wouldn't be a huge damage issue for following windshields. There isn't a whole lot of vortex formed at 70 mph - stick your hand out the tow window at 45 degrees to sample.

After Reace said it was a cross-wind issue I went ahead and mechanically fastened my panel down with the ETI kit. If you put deflectors on the front and both sides you can't get under the panel very easily to wash the rig.

Left my deflectors on the front side just to see how the tape holds up. Due to potential liability issues, my biz does not make products that attach to the outside of trailers - while I have confidence in the tapes, the problem is always the installer not getting the surfaces truly clean.
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:34 PM   #57
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I think I was mistaking the broken gel coat in your photo for torn foam tape.
Sorry.
No problem...it took us a bit to figure out what was what up there! Yes, I think you are right that the broken gel coat could have been mistaken or torn tape residue.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:22 PM   #58
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Before my last trip, I washed the trailer and inspected my solar panels. The curb side was tight but I could see day light coming under the street side, not good.
Jim, Terry went outside and did as you described and was happy not to see day light.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:32 PM   #59
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Actually my deflectors are 6 inch wide pieces with 1/8th inch in between so it follows the crown - losing one piece wouldn't be a huge damage issue for following windshields. There isn't a whole lot of vortex formed at 70 mph - stick your hand out the tow window at 45 degrees to sample.
My comment was referring to your photo in post 50 with a much larger than an 1/8" gap. In that case a deflector plus a large gap at 70mph certainly creates a vortex and uplift on the panel. Very similar to someone putting a wind deflector on the rear of their tow vehicle and wondering why their propane cover levitates.

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Old 10-22-2015, 06:52 AM   #60
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Jim, Terry went outside and did as you described and was happy not to see day light.
Good, sometimes the break may take awhile to show, in my case about 18 months
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