|
|
10-19-2015, 08:56 PM
|
#41
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
I knew it was a different install, but the tape did not fail, the panels did due to the install.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
10-20-2015, 05:56 AM
|
#42
|
Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,023
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac
Thanks cpaharley,
It appears in this thread's case the solar panel is flush to the trailer and taped on all four edges, flush to the trailer not off set and taped on just two sides. Different from the solar panels this discussion is about.
|
That's true, but you mentioned in this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...tml#post115105 "Zero issues so far but they will one day because 'double back foam tape' dries out. And when it dries out, it releases." The point of Norm's post is the time he has had a solar panel on the roof of his Scamp with no problems with the tape drying out.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
|
|
|
10-20-2015, 10:17 AM
|
#43
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2008 Escape 17b
Posts: 1,868
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
That's true, but you mentioned in this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...tml#post115105 "Zero issues so far but they will one day because 'double back foam tape' dries out. And when it dries out, it releases." The point of Norm's post is the time he has had a solar panel on the roof of his Scamp with no problems with the tape drying out.
|
Thank you for trying to correct me Donna. My first post was "i'll never understand why anyone would install a solar panel using 'double back tape'". I still wonder that. It seems that double back tape, in some way caused a failure in your referenced post as well. I still stand by the fact that foam tape eventually dries out and when it does it releases. Your referenced post has a trailer owner removing his panel after 3 or 4 years. That particular tape, I can only guess, hadn't dried out yet but seems to have come away from the trailer without leaving a mark.
I can only guess that the fact that foam tape fails is the reason that Escape no longer uses it in solar panel installs.
Or, better still, ask FMLNM th OP of the thread "Our solar panel blew off" what he thinks about foam tape.
|
|
|
10-20-2015, 10:58 AM
|
#44
|
Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
|
3M has a wealth of applications for their hundreds of tapes - glazing tapes have been holding windows in skyscrapers for decades and semi-trailer skins are taped on now (not riveted.) Closed cell tapes don't "dry out."
3Mâ„¢ VHBâ„¢ Structural Glazing Tapes for Specified Construction
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
|
|
|
10-20-2015, 11:19 AM
|
#45
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2008 Escape 17b
Posts: 1,868
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tractors1
|
Good point. I doubt however the mentioned solar panels in this discussion used the 3M Architectural Panel tape, 3M primers, 3M Adhesion Promoters, or 15psi pressure over entire field with 3M applied Weather Proofing Sealants. But they may have.
Everything eventually "drys out".
|
|
|
10-20-2015, 11:29 AM
|
#46
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
These applications are weather protected in that the wall or glass seals the tape from the weather whereas on our roof, unless the edges are sealed with proflex, there are exposed edges.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
10-20-2015, 03:25 PM
|
#47
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,960
|
All I know is that I don't want to be the defendant in an injury lawsuit because I had something attached to my trailer with tape of any type that failed for whatever the reason. Frankly, I'm glad that ETI recognized a potential liability and provided a fix. I know my panel is not blowing off unless it takes some chunks of fiberglass with it.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
|
|
|
10-20-2015, 04:49 PM
|
#48
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Trailer: none
Posts: 737
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac
Or, better still, ask FMLNM th OP of the thread "Our solar panel blew off" what he thinks about foam tape.
|
Not to put too fine a point on it, our panel was installed with epoxy not tape....so we have no opinion on that. However, we do use VHB molding tape to secure the awning tracks for our homemade awnings over the various windows. (Basically the same design as Techfan.) They've been on for 2 years with no problem but I might take a cue from Techfan and run some sealant over the top of each rail to minimize tape degradation. If the tape DID degrade there would be no real issue since the approximately 3 foot x 1 inch plastic awning rails could easily be replaced and would not pose a hazard if they broke loose.
__________________
Fran & Dave Albuquerque, NM
2013 to 2022 had a 2008 Escape 5.0 Classic
2011 Frontier Crew Cab Short Bed Pro4x
Sold both 7/22
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 10:41 AM
|
#49
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2008 Escape 17b
Posts: 1,868
|
The photo you posted in thread 25 of 'our solar panel blew off' shows tape and epoxy.
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 10:57 AM
|
#50
|
Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by craiginpetaluma
The panels were mounted low to help reduce wind loading and I will fabricate a front " wind deflector" and " side skirts" and attach with the same 3m tape and sikaflex to maybe help in seeing degradation of the tape and sikaflex.
Overall AM solar is really confident in this approach. By keeping wind from getting under the panels and regular inspections I'm hopeful this is sufficient.
|
ETI told me that the flying panels happened due to high cross-winds; I can see how that would add "uplift" under a panel that overhangs the crowned center. I learned this after I installed ABS wind deflectors with 3M RP45 tape on the leading edge of my panel.
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 11:33 AM
|
#51
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,744
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tractors1
ETI told me that the flying panels happened due to high cross-winds; I can see how that would add "uplift" under a panel that overhangs the crowned center. I learned this after I installed ABS wind deflectors with 3M RP45 tape on the leading edge of my panel.
|
Interesting. I'm wondering how an aerodynamicists would view your deflector. I'm wondering if the vortex created would cause a massive low pressure area on the top of the panel, creating lift and wanting to pull the panel upwards.
Just musing, I wouldn't worry about that situation in my case because I wouldn't have panels on my roof that weren't mechanically fastened.
Ron
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 11:38 AM
|
#52
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: petaluma, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21 2002 Tundra 4x4 V-8 tow package.
Posts: 163
|
Charlie, That deflector is just what I'm thinking. Did you add side skirts also ? Reese also told me it was high cross that caused the failures.
I still believe that improper install techniques were a contributor to the failures, but yes, "Taping" anything down atop an Rv that is subject to heavy wind loads is of concern.
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 12:01 PM
|
#53
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Trailer: none
Posts: 737
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac
The photo you posted in thread 25 of 'our solar panel blew off' shows tape and epoxy.
|
There was no tape in our installation. What you see is just the remaining epoxy and the impressions of the rails in the remaining epoxy.
__________________
Fran & Dave Albuquerque, NM
2013 to 2022 had a 2008 Escape 5.0 Classic
2011 Frontier Crew Cab Short Bed Pro4x
Sold both 7/22
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 01:35 PM
|
#54
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
Trailer: 2014 19'
Posts: 534
|
I'd say vibration and flexing of the shell, add some heat cold cycling, and the the bond Is failing. Add a gust of wind and the panel finally comes loose. The gust isn't the cause it's just the 'last straw'.
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 01:35 PM
|
#55
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2008 Escape 17b
Posts: 1,868
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMLNM
There was no tape in our installation. What you see is just the remaining epoxy and the impressions of the rails in the remaining epoxy.
|
I think I was mistaking the broken gel coat in your photo for torn foam tape.
Sorry.
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 04:13 PM
|
#56
|
Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Interesting. I'm wondering how an aerodynamicists would view your deflector. I'm wondering if the vortex created would cause a massive low pressure area on the top of the panel, creating lift and wanting to pull the panel upwards.
Just musing, I wouldn't worry about that situation in my case because I wouldn't have panels on my roof that weren't mechanically fastened.
Ron
|
Actually my deflectors are 6 inch wide pieces with 1/8th inch in between so it follows the crown - losing one piece wouldn't be a huge damage issue for following windshields. There isn't a whole lot of vortex formed at 70 mph - stick your hand out the tow window at 45 degrees to sample.
After Reace said it was a cross-wind issue I went ahead and mechanically fastened my panel down with the ETI kit. If you put deflectors on the front and both sides you can't get under the panel very easily to wash the rig.
Left my deflectors on the front side just to see how the tape holds up. Due to potential liability issues, my biz does not make products that attach to the outside of trailers - while I have confidence in the tapes, the problem is always the installer not getting the surfaces truly clean.
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 04:34 PM
|
#57
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Trailer: none
Posts: 737
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Mac
I think I was mistaking the broken gel coat in your photo for torn foam tape.
Sorry.
|
No problem...it took us a bit to figure out what was what up there! Yes, I think you are right that the broken gel coat could have been mistaken or torn tape residue.
__________________
Fran & Dave Albuquerque, NM
2013 to 2022 had a 2008 Escape 5.0 Classic
2011 Frontier Crew Cab Short Bed Pro4x
Sold both 7/22
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 06:22 PM
|
#58
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Highland Park, New Jersey
Trailer: Escape 19 February 2014
Posts: 975
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
Before my last trip, I washed the trailer and inspected my solar panels. The curb side was tight but I could see day light coming under the street side, not good.
|
Jim, Terry went outside and did as you described and was happy not to see day light.
|
|
|
10-21-2015, 06:32 PM
|
#59
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,744
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tractors1
Actually my deflectors are 6 inch wide pieces with 1/8th inch in between so it follows the crown - losing one piece wouldn't be a huge damage issue for following windshields. There isn't a whole lot of vortex formed at 70 mph - stick your hand out the tow window at 45 degrees to sample.
|
My comment was referring to your photo in post 50 with a much larger than an 1/8" gap. In that case a deflector plus a large gap at 70mph certainly creates a vortex and uplift on the panel. Very similar to someone putting a wind deflector on the rear of their tow vehicle and wondering why their propane cover levitates.
Ron
|
|
|
10-22-2015, 06:52 AM
|
#60
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthe
Jim, Terry went outside and did as you described and was happy not to see day light.
|
Good, sometimes the break may take awhile to show, in my case about 18 months
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|