Winterize fail

[New Adventures]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

For anyone contemplating the compressed air method for winterizing, but new to all this, here are some items/instructions that help: 1) air compressor (mine lets me adjust the line pressure to 50 psi, for example), 2) brass adapter from air hose to water hose, 3) brass in-line 40-50 psi pressure regulator just in case I forget to adjust my air compressor line pressure down, 4) brass 90 degree elbow to let the weight of all this hang rather than cantilever. Set your water heater valves for winterizing, hook everything up, build up some air pressure, go inside and start opening faucets (galley sink, bath sink, shower head, toilet). Then remember to do all the other usual stuff, too. I have the winterizing t-valve, too, but I like to flush water out of the system as much as possible with air before using the pink stuff just to reduce the risk some pocket of water diluting the antifreeze to the point it's less effective. Just me being anal....

Thank you. I signed on this morning with the intent of asking about compressed air - I used this method with our former truck camper and it worked just fine. I plan to use compressed air to winterize our Escape after our first season. Since the trailer will be stored in an insulated and heated workshop I do not plan to utilize the winterize t-valve even though we included it on the Build Sheet - it provides an inexpensive option should I not be able to use a compressor at some future date.

Curious - do you follow up with anti-freeze because you store outside or unheated? Not being critical (I strongly believe in overkill when it comes to maintenance) just curious to know if I am missing something that would encourage me to follow up compressed air with anti-freeze.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by New Adventures

... Curious - do you follow up with anti-freeze because you store outside or unheated? Not being critical (I strongly believe in overkill when it comes to maintenance) just curious to know if I am missing something that would encourage me to follow up compressed air with anti-freeze.

No problem. We store both of our campers outside but under roof (EggCamper in an open shed down by our barn; Escape under a carport adjacent to the house). Our Alabama winters are comparatively mild, but we can get a few nights of hard freeze (down into the teens) from time to time. A few years back, I thought I had thoroughly winterized our EggCamper using compressed air, but apparently enough water pooled back into the shower faucet that one of those hard freeze nights cracked the faucet housing. Totally accessible from front and back, very easy replacement, but it made me wonder "what if" the water had pooled in a less-accessible location. So now I winterize both ways with the EggCamper - just in case. Since the Escape is parked right beside our house, I've already used the air compressor method and pulled the anode rod to drain the water heater tank, then if it looks like we might get a hard freeze, I plan to plug our little ceramic heater in to warm the inside to avoid using antifreeze for now. If we ever have to Winter store the Escape away from the house, then I'll probably use both methods on it, too, and we have the winterizing t-valve option to assist in that if and when the time comes. At least that's my thinking for now....

[float5]

We used anti-freeze the last several years in Iowa. Never blew out the lines. No reason to do that I know if you use anti-freeze for everything. In fact, I know some people went to anti-freeze after finding that blowing out the lines did not work. They wanted to see the anti-freeze everywhere. As far as I can tell, many people blow out lines because they were used to doing that and had the equipment.

I should also add that I think a person in Alaska said that blowing out lines was commonly done in some areas because they are in remote places and cannot get anti-freeze easily.

[War Eagle]

Antifreeze is a much more convenient option for winterizing now that manufacturers offer built-in suction lines (as in Escape's winterizing t-valve) and water heater bypass valves and tubing. Before fabricating those myself for our 2010 EggCamper, it took several gallons of antifreeze because I had to fill the water heater with antifreeze in order to flush the hot water lines. That plus a little ambidextrous gymnastics and awkward jug switching due to location of some of the water system components involved.

[akmacs]

I have never used air to winterize my lines (you'd need antifreeze for drains still unless someone has another method for those) but my father and stepfather both used to use air method as it save them $$ on antifreeze until they both somehow missed getting all the water out and experienced cracked fittings. They went antifreeze only afterwards.

On another note, I had a swamp cooler that met an end due to the RV antifreeze (I put just enough in to fill the water supply line I thought), at least that is what lazy daze figured, so some RV components may not be antifreeze friendly.

I don't know what would cause a failure using the air method but it sure seems like the antifreeze method is easier.

I would guess the air method is easier in the spring since you don't have to flush the water lines to get the antifreeze/residue out.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by New Adventures

Curious - do you follow up with anti-freeze because you store outside or unheated? Not being critical (I strongly believe in overkill when it comes to maintenance) just curious to know if I am missing something that would encourage me to follow up compressed air with anti-freeze.

I had the wall mounted shower control crack on my Starcraft, with the pink antifreeze in it. The Pex also turned pink after a few years, it was kind of a see thru whitish when I got it new in 06.

Since then in an effort towards overkill, I pump in the antifreeze same as everyone else, then blow it out with the air.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by akmacs

... you'd need antifreeze for drains still unless someone has another method for those ...

So here's another method for straight-forward "P" traps in sink and shower drains. Get a large syringe and a foot or so of tubing that fits the syringe tip (I got mine from a local farm supply store). Then just snake the tubing down into the bottom of the trap, draw back on the syringe plunger, and suck the water out of the trap. This method also gives you an idea of how much of what kind of debris, if any, might be lingering in the bottom of the trap. May not appeal to everyone, but it works for anyone averse to buying/using antifreeze.

[Brian B-P]

The idea that water freezing in a container won't hurt if there is an open surface makes some sense, but is not reliable. I have a couple of split rain barrels to prove this, and one is even tapered (smaller at the bottom) which should work even better. The degree of damage probably varies with the rate of freezing, so what you can get away with in conditions barely below the freezing point may not work in a sudden very cold snap. I suggest draining the fresh water tank.

Vinyl hoses are another matter: I've frozen those solid without damage, as they just stretch a bit.

[New Adventures]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

No problem. We store both of our campers outside but under roof (EggCamper in an open shed down by our barn; Escape under a carport adjacent to the house). Our Alabama winters are comparatively mild, but we can get a few nights of hard freeze (down into the teens) from time to time. A few years back, I thought I had thoroughly winterized our EggCamper using compressed air, but apparently enough water pooled back into the shower faucet that one of those hard freeze nights cracked the faucet housing. Totally accessible from front and back, very easy replacement, but it made me wonder "what if" the water had pooled in a less-accessible location. So now I winterize both ways with the EggCamper - just in case. Since the Escape is parked right beside our house, I've already used the air compressor method and pulled the anode rod to drain the water heater tank, then if it looks like we might get a hard freeze, I plan to plug our little ceramic heater in to warm the inside to avoid using antifreeze for now. If we ever have to Winter store the Escape away from the house, then I'll probably use both methods on it, too, and we have the winterizing t-valve option to assist in that if and when the time comes. At least that's my thinking for now....

Thanks, makes sense. I still like the idea of using compressed air to get most of the water other than vapor out of the system but, since I did add the winterize t-valve, may take the added step for additional protection against pesky ice. Although our Escape will be stored in an insulated and heated workshop there are always those times when the winter weather takes out the power for extended periods. I would likely just put a propane heater in the workshop in that situation but can see that using the anti-freeze would still help - always try to anticipate situations that are unexpected.

We had our first hard freeze this year in mid-September. The last week - 24F in the mornings and 52F by late afternoon. Beautiful mountain weather. Thanks again for your words of wisdom.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by float5

We used anti-freeze the last several years in Iowa. Never blew out the lines. No reason to do that I know if you use anti-freeze for everything. In fact, I know some people went to anti-freeze after finding that blowing out the lines did not work. They wanted to see the anti-freeze everywhere. As far as I can tell, many people blow out lines because they were used to doing that and had the equipment.

I should also add that I think a person in Alaska said that blowing out lines was commonly done in some areas because they are in remote places and cannot get anti-freeze easily.

Reading the Warning at the bottom of the instructions on my RV antifreeze bottle, it would seem blowing out the lines first would give you an extra level of security. Either that or keep pumping for a bit after you see pink.

[CarlNH]

So, I had blown out my water lines on my 2018 19 a couple of months ago. But, with temps dropping below zero and my being away for a week and possibly running out of propane for the furnace, I decided to be double safe and put antifreeze in the lines. Got 3 gallons and proceeded to switch the t-valve to the jug position and stick the tube in the jug. However, the pump would not pull the antifreeze from the jug. Switched the valve back and forth and pump tried to suck from the empty tank but would not take up the antifreeze in the jug. Eventually had to give up and put 4 gallons in my fresh tank. Pump pulled that up just fine. Wanted to avoid putting it in my tank...

So, any thoughts as to what went wrong here? First time using the valve. Might the valve somehow be defective? Seems unlikely since it's a very simple device but I can't figure out what is going on.

Thanks!!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by CarlNH

... Got 3 gallons and proceeded to switch the t-valve to the jug position and stick the tube in the jug. However, the pump would not pull the antifreeze from the jug. Switched the valve back and forth and pump tried to suck from the empty tank but would not take up the antifreeze in the jug...

So, any thoughts as to what went wrong here? First time using the valve. Might the valve somehow be defective? Seems unlikely since it's a very simple device but I can't figure out what is going on.

The valve is simple, but could be installed incorrectly. These valves have one common (outlet) port and two other (inlet) ports. The common (outlet) port must be connected to the suction side of the water pump.

If the connections are wrong, the valve position which is intended to connect the antifreeze jug to the pump would connect the jug to the tank instead, with the pump intake just blocked off.

The three-way winterizing valve is functionally the same as the two valves used to bypass the water heater. One owner found that one of those two bypass valves was installed incorrectly, and the same type of installation error but with the winterizing valve would produce this effect.

If the valve is installed incorrectly, then you need to

1. figure out which way it should go, and
2. disconnect and reconnect the lines

Since the valve works in the tank position, the common port must be connected to either the pump or the tank. Since it doesn't work in the other position, the common port must not be connected to the pump (where it should be), but to the tank. That means that the connections to the pump and tank need to be reversed.

As for how to change connections... that depends on the type of lines (hose, PEX tubing) and connectors (barbs?) and connecting method (hose clamps? crimped rings?) which were used.

[padlin]

Seeing as how ETI has a history of backwards valves, I'd agree with Brian. Maybe someone with a 19 can take a picture of theirs and you can verify the valve is in correctly.

[CarlNH]

Yeah, I'm thinking it's installed wrong. I'm away right now but will post a pic when I get back to the trailer. Shouldn't be too tough to correct it as it's all plastic tubing to that valve.

Thanks!

Carl

[Tin]

Originally Posted by CarlNH

So, I had blown out my water lines on my 2018 19 a couple of months ago. But, with temps dropping below zero and my being away for a week and possibly running out of propane for the furnace, I decided to be double safe and put antifreeze in the lines. Got 3 gallons and proceeded to switch the t-valve to the jug position and stick the tube in the jug. However, the pump would not pull the antifreeze from the jug. Switched the valve back and forth and pump tried to suck from the empty tank but would not take up the antifreeze in the jug. Eventually had to give up and put 4 gallons in my fresh tank. Pump pulled that up just fine. Wanted to avoid putting it in my tank...

So, any thoughts as to what went wrong here? First time using the valve. Might the valve somehow be defective? Seems unlikely since it's a very simple device but I can't figure out what is going on.

Thanks!!

sounds like your valves are installed backwards, its one of the easier fixes thankfully. Kent had a good write up.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...s-13971-4.html

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Tin

sounds like your valves are installed backwards, its one of the easier fixes thankfully. Kent had a good write up.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...s-13971-4.html

Same issue (valve installed wrong), but different valve than Kent dealt with

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Tin

sounds like your valves are installed backwards, its one of the easier fixes thankfully. Kent had a good write up.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f9...s-13971-4.html

That's the case of a reversed valve to which I was referring earlier:

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The three-way winterizing valve is functionally the same as the two valves used to bypass the water heater. One owner found that one of those two bypass valves was installed incorrectly, and the same type of installation error but with the winterizing valve would produce this effect.

As Dave explained, it is not the same valve, but a similar situation.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Same issue (valve installed wrong), but different valve than Kent dealt with

[Tin]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That's the case of a reversed valve to which I was referring earlier:

As Dave explained, it is not the same valve, but a similar situation.

yup i see it. I am not even going to look at mine! I swear every time someone post a pic with something backwards or wrong my trailer has the same thing I think right now I am 10 for 10.

[julewind]

We are 2 lols (Little old Ladies). So very new to this. We have a compressor ready but no idea of where are the parts on our Escape (even though our orientation was thorough). And yes we have a manual, but there is no labeled mechanical drawing we can use for winterizing . Could someone post a diagram? Maybe in steps? thanks, jule