Winterizing Re Tammy's Email

[Kountrykamper]

The problem with using a electric heater is if the power goes out.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Kountrykamper

The problem with using a electric heater is if the power goes out.

AHA!
But, if the power goes out ( we were without for four days a few years ago ), my plan is to move into the trailer. Propane furnace, generator to top up the battery, cold beer in the fridge..

baglo

[Kountrykamper]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

AHA!
But, if the power goes out ( we were without for four days a few years ago ), my plan is to move into the trailer. Propane furnace, generator to top up the battery, cold beer in the fridge..

baglo

That works so long as your there to catch it. Winterizing is not a big deal. Spring repairs can be.

[Dave Walter]

Based on this figure showing "average daily January temperatures for January throughout North America", in my region (the Edmonton, Alberta area is dark blue on the figure), the winter temperatures are too cold to rely on anything but a proper winterization protocol.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by dbailey

Right now we're looking at lows around 2C -- not quite freezing, but cold enough that water is starting to expand as it reaches these temperatures. Potentially enough to rupture lines.

You are right that water does start to expand at about 4°C, whether heated or cooled. I would not worry in the least about a rupture unless it freezes through, as the amount is extremely small, and not at all out of the range that the Pex piping can handle. In fact the amount of thermal expansion from 4° to 20°C is much greater than from 4° to freezing.

[dbailey]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

In fact the amount of thermal expansion from 4° to 20°C is much greater than from 4° to freezing.

Jim, thanks for that little factoid. I had assumed that the expansion from 4C to ice was linear, so I learned something today. After I read your post I went looking and found an engineering site (Water - Thermal Properties) that describes the situation -- very little increase in volume until the water actually starts to freeze.

From 4C to just above freezing (0.01C in the table), the volume change is very small (0.02%). According to that table, you get the same volume change between 4C and 10C.

OTOH, from 0.01C to freezing, you get an 8% increase in volume (if I did the math right).

[bledsoe3]

I'm taking my Escape out for the first time this weekend (and last time of the year). I'm bringing everything I need to winterize it right in the camp site.

I have the 1 1\6 socket, antifreeze, compressor and adaptor. I hope I remember all the steps. Maybe I'll have internet access at the campground.

[gbaglo]

Print it out:

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...ailer-400.html

[gharper]

What kind of air compressors are you using to blow the lines out? I was thinking of renting a large Makita 2.5 hp air compressor but first used my 12 V Canadian Tire air pump I use to top up my trailer and vehicle tires and connected to the water line. To get 30 psi I had to open/close each facet one at a time. I would get short bursts of pressurized air and I got a few ounces of water out of each facet/toilet/outside shower. Then followed up with antifreeze in each trap.

I am wondering if I should redo the job with a real compressor.

[gbaglo]

I bought a proper compressor. Cost about $250 with a brad nailer included. Used it once to blow out the lines on Toad and used it once to nail up baseboards in the kitchen ( that took about 15 minutes ).
I stumble over it in my side shed, it is a pain to drag out to the trailer and plug in, a pain to find the proper connectors to use it, needs to be drained of moisture after use, I have to re-read the instructions to use it. So, I don't.

I use the anti-freeze method, but pumping it through the city water connection rather than filling the fresh water tank with anti-freeze and using the trailer pump.

Anyway, I have asked and Reace is working on a revised winterizing and de-winterizing document that will be posted as a sticky. There already is one that he posted in 2010, but the revised one should be the go-to document, dealing with various methods.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a compressor again to winterize. I'd use RV anti-freeze and flush liberally in the spring ( which, I gather, is something that most people would do anyway, if there was anti-freeze in the lines or not ).

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by gharper

What kind of air compressors are you using to blow the lines out? I was thinking of renting a large Makita 2.5 hp air compressor but first used my 12 V Canadian Tire air pump I use to top up my trailer and vehicle tires and connected to the water line. To get 30 psi I had to open/close each facet one at a time. I would get short bursts of pressurized air and I got a few ounces of water out of each facet/toilet/outside shower. Then followed up with antifreeze in each trap.

I am wondering if I should redo the job with a real compressor.

If you got 30 psi with the small one that is adequate, you do not want to put too high of a air pressure into the lines. Thirty psi does the job whether from a small or big unit.

[Kountrykamper]

Thanks to site member Parker's research and install I followed his mod and installed a 3 way valve in the pump inlet line coming from the tank yesterday. Total job took about 10 minutes. Just cut the line with a razor blade or sharp knife and removed about a 1/2 inch of it to allow room for the valve. The first picture shows the valve with a cap installed on the branch line. The second picture is Parker's pumping the antifreeze through the system.

Now to winterized drain and bypass the water heater. Then just use the low point drain and switch the valve and screw on a piece of 1/2 vinyl hose and stick the other end in a gallon of antifreeze, turn on the pump and open all faucets and toilet valve until you get pink. Pour a little in shower drain and run some through interior shower head and outside shower if you have one and your done. The hose going to the antifreeze could be left on all the time if you desired we just feel better with a cap on it when not in use.

Thanks Parker!

Parts were bought on eBay

Flair It RV Water Line 3 Way Valve All Are 1 2" PEX | eBay

Flair It RV Fresh Water Line Fittings 1 2" FPT End Cap | eBay

This handle makes it a little easier to tighten the nuts in the confined space under the bed.

Flair It RV Water Line Pipe Wrench 1 2" 3 8" Ends | eBay

[cpaharley2008]

This is the E-Z winterizing set up option I asked Escape to install on my new 21'. It was a little hard to access the pump in the 19 so I asked for it in the new one. Good job and thanks for the links for others to purchase.

[MyronL]

It was 27 degrees here last night, cause for concern. I have read page 12 of the owners manual. Read Tammy’s instructions and all you guys’ great posts on how to winterize. I do worry about that valve for the latrine. Have put off doing the winterizing for too many, many days. Don’t think this is mere procrastination. It could be fear of the unknown. Or love of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Brain needs more than the printed word; like pictures, for processing where what needs to be done. Pictures make it easy.

You know, I couldn’t figure out where to find the hot water heater. Or where the pump on-off switch is. Bypass valves? P-traps? Low point drains? The brain boggles. I closed my eyes, extended my hand way out, but no one placed a can of beer in it. Read them posts again, even printed them out. Then, little by little, a picture of what needed to be done became clearer, like a lifting fog on route 101 on an Oregon morning. All the drains began to open.

Bought a blow-out plug. I have a small compressor I use for my airbrush. Believe it or not, it was a thrill to see that 2 ounces of water drain out of the toilet.

Using compressed air is a great idea. Think all the lines have been purged now. Got the pink antifreeze handy but since we want to do some winter camping yet ahead my plan is to hold off pouring it into the system, and, put my faith in air power.

[dbailey]

Myron,

I like the way you write...

If you haven't already, you do want to dump some antifreeze in the traps, even if you'll be going out again. The compressed air clears the supply lines, but not the drain lines.

[MyronL]

Thanks, muchly appreciated ....and, I was hoping somebody would tell me (confirming) to at least add some antifreeze for the traps, etc.

[Donna D.]

I would add it. No so much for the traps themselves as the waste valves. Cheap insurance...

[MyronL]

Did it yesterday, Donna. So early this morning I see it dropped down to 44 overnight. Ah, but wait until next Wednesday.

[Jrn56]

Myron, I went through the same thing last weekend before starting my winterizing. After so much reading about the process and all the ideas on here it was easier than I thought. I used a compressor to blow out the lines too. I am creating a checklist to go through next year to make it simpler. Tom's mod above looks nice but using a hand pump to pump the antifreeze from the outside was pretty easy as long as you have someone to help you.

John

[cpaharley2008]

yes the outside pump is a team effort, whereas the inside pump method can be done alone.