Wiring

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

I think Escape wiring has evolved over the years. My personal experience with my 2010 Escape 19 showed some of those same issues as posted above. In particular the battery connections and the area around the underseat electrical box. I do not think they were bad but poorly labelled, perhaps under gauge sizes and the use of the 3M "suitcase connectors" common.

Switch to my 2014 Escape 21 and it was one of the first things I noticed. The battery box was using much heavier gauge wires, solid heavy gauge crimp on connectors (the kind you get with a hydraulic crimper), professional labels, lack of 3M connectors and a much better routing and fastening of wires.

It was apparent to me immediately that there was a vast improvement between 2010 and 2014.

thanks for the insight and observation...looking forward to my factory visit about 6 months before production.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by freespirit

you hit several nails on the head Pat!.... nominate you for senior wiring tech at Escape if you want the job!

Thanks for the job offer , but I think other members like Klem and Ron know a lot more then I do and they would catch all these little mistakes . Since I know very little about electrical I would miss a lot .There just needs someone overseeing the workers more .The trailer is still a great little trailer compared to others we have looked at . Every time Escape grows having a watchdog , inspector , gets more and more important . The owner can't be watching everything that goes on with his trailers . Company needs a dedicated inspector or inspectors to protect his reputation . Just my thoughts . We still do love our trailer . Pat

[steve dunham]

When I was going through electrical trade school , our instructor
when inspecting our work often would say " The best thing I can say about the job you did is that it works." I went to 2 years of full time trade school ,then served a 4 year apprenticeship which consisted of 8300 hours on the job plus 1400 hours of night school , before I got my journeyman's card . It is obvious by looking at the pictures that you have untrained people installing the wiring and there is no inspection by a competent person . Even though I held a journeyman's and masters electrical license , I still had to have my work inspected . If I installed wiring in the manner shown in the photos , I would have lost my electrical license .
The pictures show that someone takes absolutely no pride in their work

[Greg A]

Agree totally Pat. I love the Escape trailer, but I want to see them continue to be at the top. A Quality Control person is definitely the piece that is missing.
However, they are not alone. Scamp has had tremendous QC issues this last two years with released trailers, i.e. Black tank pipes falling off, doors blowing open, etc. But they are $12-25k trailer and while that doesn't excuse them, as the price climbs the expectations and tolerance go with it.
I don't know about Casita whether they have a QC in place or not, but all the molded manufacturers need them desperately. There are too many issues on new trailers being released to consumers unnecessarily. Reputation will die fast if it goes unchecked too long.

[tractors1]

My fun find was discovering the power for my rear view camera transmitter was spliced into the wrong red wire. The camera only worked when the button was pushed to check my holding tank levels.

Discovered that by crawling around the space under the bed of my 21 since I couldn't find a midget electrician.

They didn't check to see if rear view cameras actually worked back in 2014; now that it's a factory option they might........

[Greg A]

Charlie,
Probably not funny at the time, but that's pretty funny now. So when you were backing up did the DW have to run into the trailer and depress the holding tank button?

[tractors1]

No, it was discovered by backtracking the wiring - she did pull on wires for me to figure out what went where. I relocated the transmitter to under the front shelf on the 21 since I had to redo the harnessing.

[jerryandmaria]

After looking at Thoer's pictures, i'm going to be happy with my new 19. The other ones look like my casita. Casita suffers from excess loops of romex and lots of blue 3m crimps. Wiring diagrams are easy if you're building casitas that are all the same. Love the ability to make changes to my trailer like swapping the bed and dining room locations. Can't imagine it's easy for their staff. Besides, I love doing modifications.

[Bobbito]

We had electrical issues with our Nash trailer. One of the four wheel brakes was never connected due to a hidden break in a wire. I discovered this several years later. The dealer claimed there was no way it would have passed their inspection if there was a defective brake, but then their shop scavenged a propane valve from our first trailer, causing it to explode before we took delivery (they found us another trailer). We had several other minor issues as well. Clearly Northwood (Nash, Arctic Fox, etc.) had quality control issues. I never found an electrical wiring schematic.

Bob K

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

When I was going through electrical trade school , our instructor
when inspecting our work often would say " The best thing I can say about the job you did is that it works." I went to 2 years of full time trade school ,then served a 4 year apprenticeship which consisted of 8300 hours on the job plus 1400 hours of night school , before I got my journeyman's card . It is obvious by looking at the pictures that you have untrained people installing the wiring and there is no inspection by a competent person . Even though I held a journeyman's and masters electrical license , I still had to have my work inspected . If I installed wiring in the manner shown in the photos , I would have lost my electrical license .
The pictures show that someone takes absolutely no pride in their work

Well said, Steve. My sense is that these shortcomings are the result of poor labor practices, not design standards. If ETI follows this Forum (and I suspect they do), I'm sure this thread has caused considerable heartburn for Reace and that he's already rattled a few cages on the production floor.

[steve dunham]

Building codes only work if you have tradesmen who follow them and inspectors who enforce them. I helped a friend fix some electrical problems / issues in his brand new $50 K 5th wheel trailer. The wiring in his trailer looked a lot like the photos in this thread. His trailer also did not come with a wiring schematic and when he asked for one , he was told that they are all wired differently , depends on which guy did the wiring and on which day of the week it was built . There are code requirements and there are best practice ,which by the photos in this thread neither were followed.
I find it hard to believe that the owner of Escape wants the wiring installed in this fashion but that he is too busy running his business to constantly watch over every step of the manufacturing process. He needs to be able to trust that his employes are doing their work to the standards he set.
It appears his trust maybe misplaced.

.

[Jim Bennett]

How many homes come with a wiring schematic? Sure, there is a layout of all the junction boxes, lights, plugs, cable, network, etc, but it is left up to the electrician as to how he wants to route wires, and complete the various circuits.

I am a journeyman power systems electrician, so I learned to wire all the control wiring in an extremely neat fashion, as it not only looks good, but allows for ease for making any changes in the future. All wires and cables are neatly run into bundles. Seeing my ticket does not cover regular electrical wiring (home or commercial), I rely on hiring electricians for company work. Though some do take great pride in doing good work, others do not care about how things look, just that they work well and meet code.

When I take out homeowner permits for myself, or do work under others homeowner permits, inspectors are usually blown away by how neat the work is. The inside of panels I wire look way neater, and more organized than that of most electricians.

My point here is, that supplying a schematic for most things would be a nightmare, especially for a company like Escape. They would have to pretty much generate one for every unit built, what with the extras folks as for, as well as changes that Escape makes as things progress, often driven by frequent customer requests. I know for my build, there is not way I would expect a schematic of the wiring, as I will be having a lot of additional wires run for my own specific needs, 3-way light circuit roughed in, drops for various future devices, 120V roughed in for water heater switching and electric heater. I know that these personal wants would differ from just about any other customer. It is easy to read the request on a build sheet, and pull the applicable wiring in place, but to generate a schematic for it would be an unreasonable request.

Besides, I have a good meter, as well as a good knowledge of circuitry, and can wring out any circuit should I need. I would certainly hope anyone else with desire to do this kind of work in their own trailers also has this capability.

[Iowa Dave]

My brother,a licensed electrician, and I rewired my first house after I had another electrician install a new panel and update my kitchen. We ran quite a few new circuits. We kept accurate records and made drawings. When I got ready to sell the house, I let the realtor know I had these and would provide them to the new owner. She told me this was not a good idea from a liability standpoint. So, I destroyed them and felt sorry for the subsequent owners who could have benefitted time wise. While a meter and sound logic and knowledge are paramount, neatness in my mind counts more in electrical and plumbing and the rest of the trades than it did in penmanship, but what was stressed more when we went to school? My writing is real nice though.
Dave

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Building codes only work if you have tradesmen who follow them and inspectors who enforce them. I helped a friend fix some electrical problems / issues in his brand new $50 K 5th wheel trailer. The wiring in his trailer looked a lot like the photos in this thread. His trailer also did not come with a wiring schematic and when he asked for one , he was told that they are all wired differently , depends on which guy did the wiring and on which day of the week it was built . There are code requirements and there are best practice ,which by the photos in this thread neither were followed.
I find it hard to believe that the owner of Escape wants the wiring installed in this fashion but that he is too busy running his business to constantly watch over every step of the manufacturing process. He needs to be able to trust that his employes are doing their work to the standards he set.
It appears his trust maybe misplaced.

.

Morning Steve , this is a laymen in electrical speaking here . Are not the basic floor plans of the trailers all the same ?unlike homes which are all different ? The color of wires are a code to follow and you shouldn't be adding different colors to the wire runs ? Pat

[cpaharley2008]

Be careful for what you wish for, skilled labor and journeymen can mean unions and then government intervention with regulations which can all lead to price increases, at least that is what happens down here in the lower 48.

[Greg A]

My brother is a plumbing and hvac inspector for a large western state county. As a builder or homeowner that has pulled proper permits, each step of their work has to be inspected and signed off on. That is all that is missing here is a Quality Control person inspecting and signing off on each phase of the build. If not acceptable, it has to be redone to standards before they pass it.
Very simple process if you have a Quality Control person in place.if the work keeps coming to the QC person sub standard they know who needs additional training.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Be careful for what you wish for, skilled labor and journeymen can mean unions and then government intervention with regulations which can all lead to price increases, at least that is what happens down here in the lower 48.

Jim ,I am UNION electrician and proud of it. If I follow your logic , then you prefer to have the wiring done by untrained people with no regard to following the code just to possibly save a couple bucks.
If the improperly installed wiring starts a fire ,I am sure that the money you saved will be soothing .The purpose of the code is to protect life and property . If you can be political so can I.
I don't tell you how to do accounting so don't tell me how my job should be performed If I sound p_ _ _ed off ,I am .
Stick to a subject that you actually have knowledge.

[thoer]

I know I sound like a stuck record, but this is why we need to leave political comments off this forum....

[tdf-texas]

This thread has the hair standing on the back of my head.

Why is it that electrical codes exist? Because of electricians that do their job with a laissez faire attitude. Electrical codes are written to address past bad practices that have resulted in damage or death.

So electricians are NOT allowed to run circuits as they wish - there are rules that must be followed. Circuit loading, installation practices, wire size, etc are mandated by code to stop poor practices.

The pictures shown on this thread are unacceptable. I have a 21 ordered for Jan 2017 - I would not want to see anything like those pics. If the electrical is not correct, it gets stripped and rewired.

My credits - EE with 40 years experience. Any job I inspected that looked like those pics would have had the employee/contractor banned from ever working on any of my sites again.

(getting off soapbox now)

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Jim ,I am UNION electrician and proud of it. If I follow your logic , then you prefer to have the wiring done by untrained people with no regard to following the code just to possibly save a couple bucks.
If the improperly installed wiring starts a fire ,I am sure that the money you saved will be soothing .The purpose of the code is to protect life and property . If you can be political so can I.
I don't tell you how to do accounting so don't tell me how my job should be performed If I sound p_ _ _ed off ,I am .
Stick to a subject that you actually have knowledge.

It was not meant to be taken personally, training and unions are not synonymous, we can be trained but still not be in unionized. There are no unions in law, nor medical, accounting and a lot of other professions, but these people are all well trained. Mistakes are a part of life, if by a trained individual or anyone else.