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Old 04-06-2016, 12:26 PM   #11
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I see the problem with wiring diagrams . But the important point here was the wiring . This is a little more upsetting then my seat structure frame being cut and ends painted . Guess I better check my wiring now . My understanding electricity is like running water and you don't want cuts (spices) in a line , which could potentially cause a problem in time . Also mixing different color wires , even though I am not the most brilliant when it comes to electricity , I need help with that , need to keep wires same colors and not mix with different colors . Basic I would think . More oversite needed and training ? Pat
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
Yeah, perhaps it would be best to take the basic diagram and create your own. Get out a flash light and mirror to check out all the cubbies.
Maybe could be a basic diagram with color codes for systems that is always the same . Pat
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:53 PM   #13
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Having been a mechanic for 38 years I look at the wiring as similar to what is done on a boat. Usually the wiring is really poorly done. I plan on spending a lot of time replacing the crimp connectors that ETI uses with the kind that you crimp and then heat with a heat gun. I especially do not like the blue "3m Scotchlok " connectors you see in the top picture on the wiring that runs horizontal. Scotchloks are notorious for causing intermittent wiring problems especially if run outside or if the circuit is overloaded. I am not sure if any trailer manufacturer uses proper wiring techniques. The connectors that are of the most concern to me in the pictures above are the brake wiring connectors, they at least should be waterproof to stop corrosion. I rewired my boat that had the same problems and I will rewire my trailer when it is done the same way.
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Given the number of options and custom choices that ETI accommodates, I fail to see how a basic wiring diagram would help, and can't see them drawing up custom diagrams.
There are many items in common for all trailers. A schematic would show them and the color of wires used. Extra option items are powered from a common source. Options can be shown and labeled "option". There may be a case for different schematics for different size trailers with the location of the batteries and the converter being different. But given the reluctance of ETI to supply any schematic that's a moot point.

Donna; the wires I've shown are in a location no one would ever see without cutting a large hole in their cabinet. How would a person trying to trace the green wire know that, out of sight, it turned into a red wire?

Answer; you can use number bands on the wires. If you see "5" on a red wire under the berth and a "5" on a green wire emerging from behind the bathroom near the converter then you can follow the path and know what wire you're dealing with.

Trust me, if it was easy to draw a schematic I would have already done it. But with all the hidden connections and changes in wire color it'd be difficult.

Ron
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:13 PM   #15
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It seems that unwarranted assumptions are more frequently being made that individual problems of one trailer therefore extend to ALL Escapes.

Are there going to be problems with individual Escape trailers - of course there are. New people are hired, they may turn out to be someone who can't live up to Reace's standards and something they do might slip by. Or another person might just plain make a mistake. A new person at ETI used caulk instead of glue on some of the trim in ours and it eventually worked loose. Does the wiring in some of these pictures looks poorly done, yes it does. Does that mean every Escape trailer is going to have poorly done wiring? Well here are 4 quick pictures I snapped as examples of how it looks in our 2010. I would be willing to bet if most owner went and looked at that wiring that mine will be closer to what will be found than the poorly done examples.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0817.jpg (259.1 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0818.jpg (148.1 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0821.jpg (180.3 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0822.jpg (281.4 KB, 39 views)
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
I'm not totally sure about that Greg. My view is the failure to provide an electrical schematic to be strange for a commercial operation of this size. I find the typical solution "call Reece" to be unprofessional and unsuited to trailers that may have a problem far from ETI and be taken to an RV place for service. A service person should have access to an electric schematic so that he can trouble shoot the problem.

Maybe things have improved in the last year and a half but I certainly regard the manner in which my trailer was wired as bush league. The switching of wire colors is sort of like a person building something, looking through their junk box for two screws and using one Philips and one Robertson.

My negative ground was screwed to the frame. 18" away the converter ground was screwed to the frame. A very poor situation with the potential for rust to create problematic resistance. It's my understanding that this situation may have been since corrected. I hope so.

One of my brake wires was poorly connected and about to fail. Two others had very poor crimps. They were all repaired with soldered connections.

I don't see very much difference between the way my Scamp was wired. At least the Scamp had a simple schematic. The only improvement that the Escape has is that the incoming 7 pin connections are in a box where the Scamp ones were exposed.

My view is that anyone who has been exposed to higher levels of wiring isn't going to be impressed with ETI's wiring.

Ron
Ron,
Thanks for the post. It's interesting that you and Klem's are both 2014's. I did an initial wiring inspection after Klem first posted his issues and I picked up our trailer and I couldn't see any of those issues he or you are showing. I am going to go do a much more thorough look because the wiring on the 05 17b was not good. Even the gauge of wire from the battery wasn't correct on that trailer and I had similar failing connections to the brakes.
I hope more folks do some wiring inspections and post any findings. I will post up pics of anything I find when I do another inspection. Scamp does have a wiring diagram, but having rebuilt 3 so far I can pretty much tell you it's worthless for the most part. Seriously hope that these trailers aren't wired in the manner you and Klem are showing any longer.

This goes back to my post in another thread that I knew when I got my 19 in Nov that ETI did not have a Quality Control person on staff. Things on my trailer wouldn't have gotten by a good QC person. This was confirmed later in that thread. Going forward they are going to have to have that QC person if they want to sell molded glass in the $30-40+k range long term.
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Given the number of options and custom choices that ETI accommodates, I fail to see how a basic wiring diagram would help, and can't see them drawing up custom diagrams.
Escape is what it is and with expanded production, QC will take on a whole new meaning. Poor or non-existent documentation even if its for internal use only could make Quality Control a real issue. Considering they plan on adding production, with documentation they can then train new employees and most importantly have a document should they have a QC inspector. As one other post indicated with this document you can have your trailer serviced at less cost if the rv tech knows how it is wired.
A basic wiring diagram would take a competent tech person using any cad application maybe 4 hours to create. With that at least Escape has documented their standard process. As far as the custom aspect of the wiring (and there is a finite amount of options that Escape will allow) all that can be automated into a drawing again using most any CAD app. Anyway based on other peoples posts, this level of manufacturing expertise seems to be beyond Escapes current manufacturing model.
Yes with sales of about 200 trailers or whatever per year, probably the vast majority of buyers probably could not care less about the details of how their trailer is constructed. In today's world with the internet, manufacturing QC and production techniques takes on a whole new dimension especially for a small mfg who might take a significant financial hit if it resulted in lost sales.
Appreciate the posts by some for the candid observations and pics....its illuminating to shine the light into those dark places!
hoping for the best with my purchase, but tempering my expectations knowing that this product could always be better with minimal effort in both manufacturing and design...been there, done that.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:05 PM   #18
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The wiring was one of the first things I noticed on the Escape, it was head and shoulders above what my Starcraft's was like. But then with all my mods and crawling around in the Escape I've yet to run into anything like Ron or Klem show.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda View Post
I see the problem with wiring diagrams . But the important point here was the wiring . This is a little more upsetting then my seat structure frame being cut and ends painted . Guess I better check my wiring now . My understanding electricity is like running water and you don't want cuts (spices) in a line , which could potentially cause a problem in time . Also mixing different color wires , even though I am not the most brilliant when it comes to electricity , I need help with that , need to keep wires same colors and not mix with different colors . Basic I would think . More oversite needed and training ? Pat
you hit several nails on the head Pat!.... nominate you for senior wiring tech at Escape if you want the job!
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Old 04-06-2016, 03:11 PM   #20
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I think Escape wiring has evolved over the years. My personal experience with my 2010 Escape 19 showed some of those same issues as posted above. In particular the battery connections and the area around the underseat electrical box. I do not think they were bad but poorly labelled, perhaps under gauge sizes and the use of the 3M "suitcase connectors" common.

Switch to my 2014 Escape 21 and it was one of the first things I noticed. The battery box was using much heavier gauge wires, solid heavy gauge crimp on connectors (the kind you get with a hydraulic crimper), professional labels, lack of 3M connectors and a much better routing and fastening of wires.

It was apparent to me immediately that there was a vast improvement between 2010 and 2014.
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