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Old 04-07-2016, 11:17 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Besides, I have a good meter, as well as a good knowledge of circuitry, and can wring out any circuit should I need.
That's the problem exactly. Those of us who recognize amateur wiring practices are quite capable of repairing problems. Not as quickly as having a schematic that shows the color codes used or having wires labeled before they disappear into hidden spaces but we can deal with problems.

In addition to RV techs, it's the person who doesn't do much wiring etc. that would benefit from a schematic. Just troubleshooting a pump or a light that doesn't work is so much easier if you know the color of the wire or the circuit breaker to be checking.

I don't buy the argument that because there are some options no schematic can be made. The vast majority of trailers have most of their devices in common with others. All trailers have lights, water pumps etc. A simple notation of a schematic by the person wiring could denote a custom item.

For example, the schematic I used to wire my car had all sorts of circuits I didn't need such as a/c, door sensors, doors? but it shows all the basic circuits that I needed. Sorry, don't buy the argument that because some trailers have some options there can't be a usable schematic.

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Old 04-07-2016, 11:18 AM   #42
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The pictures shown on this thread are unacceptable. I have a 21 ordered for Jan 2017 - I would not want to see anything like those pics. If the electrical is not correct, it gets stripped and rewired.
As those photos are anomalies, I suspect you will be happy with what you get. Other than not being a fan of the blue 12V connectors, they are actually approved to be used inside, I was more than happy with all the wiring in my 2009 19.

Escape is continually modifying their processes, and improving upon them. They do have to meet electrical codes, which mostly just cover the 120V stuff though, the same in house wiring where there is no inspection of low voltage wiring, at least around here.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:19 AM   #43
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I know Airstreams have schematics because they make up their wiring harness before hand for each trailer. that is the reason they will not customize their models with any changes, too hard to make a custom wiring harness.We are lucky that Escape will make changes. Some would be impossible afterwards.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:30 AM   #44
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It was not meant to be taken personally, training and unions are not synonymous, we can be trained but still not be in unionized. There are no unions in law, nor medical, accounting and a lot of other professions, but these people are all well trained. Mistakes are a part of life, if by a trained individual or anyone else.
Please do not take this too seriously, but I am in full agreement with this post.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:33 AM   #45
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I know Airstreams have schematics because they make up their wiring harness before hand for each trailer. that is the reason they will not customize their models with any changes, too hard to make a custom wiring harness.We are lucky that Escape will make changes. Some would be impossible afterwards.
You are on a roll, this is two in a row. It seems strange, at least to me, that folks are complaining about a resultant of something I feel is a major benefit to buying Escape.

Of course, I might once again be missing something.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:39 AM   #46
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If ETI does keep growing and approaches the annual manufacturing levels of some of the other brands, then the customization that we are allowed now will mostly evaporate. I don't see any reason at this point there couldn't be a wiring schematic for each model with published options. The options people arrange off the books don't need to be on a schematic, those are one off items that don't effect the bulk of trailers.
The problem with wiring schematics is previous owners, especially in molded glass where part of our hobby is modding things to death. I have encountered so many po add ons, rewires, changes and they usually don't use the same color wire that is there to do their thing. I see a lot of lamp cord, twisted connections with electrical tape, whatever was in my garage, etc. So I look at a wiring schematics as not very useful once a trailer has been in the wild for awhile, but they can be useful for a starting point.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:53 AM   #47
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If ETI does keep growing and approaches the annual manufacturing levels of some of the other brands, then the customization that we are allowed now will mostly evaporate. I don't see any reason at this point there couldn't be a wiring schematic for each model with published options. The options people arrange off the books don't need to be on a schematic, those are one off items that don't effect the bulk of trailers.
The problem with wiring schematics is previous owners, especially in molded glass where part of our hobby is modding things to death. I have encountered so many po add ons, rewires, changes and they usually don't use the same color wire that is there to do their thing. I see a lot of lamp cord, twisted connections with electrical tape, whatever was in my garage, etc. So I look at a wiring schematics as not very useful once a trailer has been in the wild for awhile, but they can be useful for a starting point.
I was a union carpenter ,because of my training ,when I moved my thermostat down needed more length to my green wire . Even though I have ton's of wire, a whole box , all gauges , went to the store to purchase a foot of wire to complete my job , keeping the existing wire green . It is just for the heater , no big deal . I dont't want my trailer just put it together and make it work .I want it right . Pat
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:59 AM   #48
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The options people arrange off the books don't need to be on a schematic, those are one off items that don't effect the bulk of trailers.
They do offer electrical layouts of the trailers, where the standard items go. But even at that, when I was in at Escape on Feb 29, Sarah gave me a copy of the electrical layout for the 5.0TA, but advised me that it had already changed in regards to a bit of wiring in the loft. If there was a schematic, it too would then have to be changed. It really is simple wiring to get these devices to work, and in my opinion, anyone doing any work to the wiring after taking possession, should certainly be able to figure this system out.

Would having a schematic be a bad thing? Certainly not. But I am just trying to make the point from what I interpret as Escape's point of view. Who knows, maybe they will do one in the future, but I bet they would have to recoup the costs somehow.
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:04 PM   #49
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I was a union carpenter ,because of my training ,when I moved my thermostat down needed more length to my green wire . Even though I have ton's of wire, a whole box , all gauges , went to the store to purchase a foot of wire to complete my job , keeping the existing wire green . It is just for the heater , no big deal . I dont't want my trailer just put it together and make it work .I want it right . Pat
Not sure what being a union carpenter has to do with this, but I do agree with what you did. I too like am a little anal with things like this. Not necessary to do, but a detail that gives me pride in my work.

BTW, though not union, I too am a journeyman carpenter. Oh, and a Civil Engineering Technologist too. I also have my second class boiler ticket, but that one goes waaaaaay back. Is it any wonder that there are so many crazy thoughts rambling through me wee heed?
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:26 PM   #50
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Wiring

A thought "rambling through me wee heed" as Jim would say, is ETI expected/required to produce their wiring, plumbing, gas and other plans/schematics just because some think they should?

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Old 04-07-2016, 02:49 PM   #51
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When you look at the wiring in our trailer you'll see many splices, sometime an inch or two of wire extending a run, and color changes. On the counter top side all the wiring to the lights and stove fan is 'zip' (lamp) cord. So you have brown with no line ... and brown with a line.

Notice in #1 red, splice, one inch red, splice green. etc. On the second pic yellow with insulation damage and red/green combined in splice etc.
When I toured the Escape factory a few years ago, I noticed the electrical harness (or at least some portion of it) being built on a layout board on the wall; the prepared harness would then be installed into the trailer (presumably before some of the interior). This is quite different from stringing individual wires through the trailer (which, by the way, is the way buildings are wired), and helps ensure consistently correct layout (including colour-coding).

Looking at Klem's photos, I wonder if someone had pasted together some harness sections which didn't match in colour-coding (thus the changes) and didn't even reach each other in some cases (thus the ridiculous short sections). Perhaps this was due to a change of interior layout, or a miscommunication of what wiring was needed. Of course this should have meant a fresh start, but people often to inappropriate things under production schedule pressures. This is one of the reasons that quality control is challenging.
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:02 PM   #52
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A thought "rambling through me wee heed" as Jim would say, is ETI expected/required to produce their wiring, plumbing, gas and other plans/schematics just because some think they should?
I would say no, but I also think there are legitimate reasons to be able to supply these - as do most manufacturers of most products outside of the RV industry - and there are even more reasons to have them internally (to guide and control production).
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:40 PM   #53
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My trailer was built in 2008. And there was a QC employee, because I met her.
Every run is bundled with zip ties and secured to framing.
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:43 PM   #54
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My trailer was built in 2008. And there was a QC employee, because I met her.
Every run is bundled with zip ties and secured to framing.

Looks nice and tidy and well done just like mine, imagine that!
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:15 PM   #55
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As a newbie to the forum with a 2017 on order, I have found this thread interesting and informative, despite the political thrillers. I think what most people are saying here is quality is preferred over shoddy construction, regardless of the methods used to achieve the result (union or non-union, certified tradesperson or jack-of-all-trades).

My wiring experience is about nil, so I'm hoping that the construction quality displayed in the pictures shown early in the thread is a rare exception, and that the wiring in my trailer is installed in a rational manner with attention to detail and quality.
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:45 PM   #56
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When I was a kid, and told my folks that I thought I should have something, they typically responded with, "yea, and people in Hell think they should have ice water."
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:57 PM   #57
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Hello everyone...

Yep...not too proud of what some of our crew had put out. I attached a couple of photos of the next trailer off the line...and I think they look up to par.

I will agree there is a mess in one of the photos, however, trying to match each components wiring color is difficult. For example, we run a 4 wire ribbon for the running lights (white, brown, yellow and green). The yellow wire connects to the red wire on the taillight on the driver side and the green wire connects to the red wire on the taillight on the passenger side (don't quote me on colors)...I just know the left signal light wire is a different color than the right signal light color...but both taillights have the same color to attach to. Then we use green, white and black wires for the furnace run, as that is the color the furnace uses, but we also have the water pump and water heater on that run which use different color wires.

There was a point when we used the splice connectors buried within the walls and overhead cabinets. We no longer use them in those areas and changes to the harness have been made to lessen the amount of splices made. We still use them, however they are in areas that are fairly easily accessible.

Always listening and always striving for better...

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Old 04-07-2016, 09:03 PM   #58
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I appreciate that attitude of wanting to do the best. Thank you!
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:13 PM   #59
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Thanks, Reace for the follow-up. As I posted earlier in this thread the 19 we picked up in Nov looked very professionally done in regards to the wiring when I checked it over. Our trailer looks very similar to the pics you posted above and I've not seen any of the prior issues noted on some of the earlier trailers.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:16 PM   #60
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wiring

We have had boats that have had the same problems where someone has changed the wires not good for someone trying to fix something . We have a 21 due in Jan 04 /17
It seems Reese is on top of it. Thank You for striving to produce the Best
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