Are Weight Distribution hitches and sway control sometimes a bad idea? - Page 3 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:13 AM   #41
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Yawn, goodnight Brian....btw- what do we care what Europeans do anyway Also- have you ever owned/used a WDH? I suspect not- you tow a Boler with a Sienna? If so then everything you opine is theoretical.
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:57 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
- have you ever owned/used a WDH? I suspect not- you tow a Boler with a Sienna? If so then everything you opine is theoretical.
Nope, never needed one - with the Sienna or pickups or vans or the motorhome, towing the Boler or cargo trailers or car transporters. It's fine with me if others use them - I just try to answer questions and correct physically incorrect statements, in the interest of better understanding for everyone.

Lots of people with Siennas like mine do use WD, some even with trailers weighing only 3000 pounds.

Getting a tandem-axle trailer level without WD isn't just theory - simply putting the ball at the required height works... in reality. Of course there's more to towing setup than that.
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:21 AM   #43
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:55 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I'm not sure what term you're searching for - it wouldn't be added compliance, since the WD reduces compliance of the coupling.
I was thinking of a Hi-Fi phonograph cartridge, and you're right, I had it backwards; high compliance = softer, low compliance = stiffer. To a layman it would seem a higher compliant cartridge would track better, but not so.

There are many more reasons to use a WDH for Escape owners than not, primarily due to the greater use of FWD mid-size SUV's. Even those with pickup trucks that use them say it offers a smoother ride, however for the SUV owners it can really make the difference in safety- when adjusted properly. JD Gallant writes in How to Tow Safely from RV Consumer Group that "many accident happen when the towing vehicle loses control as a result of incorrectly-tensioned spring bars as they can remove enough pressure from the rear axle to cause the rear wheels of the towing vehicle to lose traction with the resulting loss of steering control". He also says hitch weight should be no more than 75-85% of the spring bar rating to allow for a range of adjustment. If you buy one that is rated too high (one size fits all) one may be tempted to overtension the spring bars.

The above represents one of the best reasons to buy a WDH from Escape. Or at least call and talk to Dennis about the ratings and other tips if you are going to install yourself like I did when replacing the ETI installed Andersen with a Pro Series RB2 with 600 lb. spring bars.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:43 PM   #45
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I haven't thought about this as deeply as Brian, but I'll try to describe my thoughts. I have two concerns, which Brian has already touched on, but I'll re-phrase them in my own way. The two issues that most concern me are that the torque is applied in the opposite direction from non-WD hitches, and the total forces applied to the hitch receiver with a WD hitch could be much greater than without.

To illustrate, let's take a trailer without a WD hitch and a 500lb tongue weight. If resting in a static non-moving condition, the force on the hitch receiver is entirely downwards. You could in fact cut the top off the hitch receiver and the trailer would remain statically connected to the vehicle with all 500lb resting on the bottom surface of the hitch receiver. If you switch to a WD hitch, you no longer can cut the top off the hitch receiver. To transfer the weight to the front tires, you need to apply an upwards force at the rear of the receiver and a downwards force at the front, torquing the receiver to transfer the weight to the front tires. The total force applied is still 500lb, but you might need 4000lb upwards at the rear and 4500lb downwards at the front of the receiver (I'm making up numbers here). Brian pointed out that SAE J684 requires the hitch to withstand the entire weight of the trailer, so I think these are not entirely unexpected forces.

If I were designing a hitch receiver connection for a vehicle that would accept a weight distribution hitch, I would make the hitch receiver MUCH beefier and longer (to reduce lever action) than without. I'd also make the bolts connecting the hitch receiver to the vehicle much stronger and able to withstand the opposite twisting force required. Engineers tend to build things that can withstand three or more times the expected forces, so normal equipment may be able to withstand these larger forces applied in non-expected directions, but I think there are good reasons not to use a vehicle in a way that a manufacturer did not specifically design it for, especially if I have any question that I don't fundamentally understand 100% of their design criteria. In this case, I do not 100% understand their criteria, but I can see enough of the problem that it makes me nervous.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:41 PM   #46
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In this case, I do not 100% understand their criteria, but I can see enough of the problem that it makes me nervous.
I don't understand 100% of it either but I'm not sure why that is problematic. Folks have been using WDH's for a long, long time. Have there been problems where a correctly rated receiver failed because of the design of the WDH?

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Old 12-06-2016, 05:20 PM   #47
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:28 PM   #48
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Look up Hidden Hitch or eTrailer.com and ask about WDH receivers.
The hitch receivers are made for a WDH, designed and built for that purpose and for that vehicle.
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:38 PM   #49
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Have there been problems where a correctly rated receiver failed because of the design of the WDH?
Probably...

We have one forum member whose Honda Pilot hitch receiver box bent in the direction of the WD torque.

In magazine columns staff of the infamous Cam-Am RV of London Ontario have reported that hitch receiver structures have often bent in the direction of the WD torque, and they charge customers to fabricate (some pretty hack looking) reinforcements; however, they are known to deliberately apply WD well beyond the recommendations of the WD manufacturer while using them on tow vehicles loaded well beyond the vehicle manufacturers' ratings. For instance, they say that Touareg/Q7/Cayenne hitches bend too much... when they use WD on these vehicles for which the manufacturer says not to use WD, so some of their "inadequate factory hitches" are not examples of the problem as Ron requested. (These are the people who routine describe themselves as "towing experts"...)
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:47 PM   #50
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Look up Hidden Hitch or eTrailer.com and ask about WDH receivers.
The hitch receivers are made for a WDH, designed and built for that purpose and for that vehicle.
Good point - I agree that if the hitch is rated by the manufacturer for WD use the hitch is probably suitable for WD use. The hitch manufacturers are the best source of this information, and eTrailer is really good about posting genuine installation instructions complete with ratings.

At the same time I note that hitch manufacturers routinely:
  • sell hitches for vehicles that the vehicle manufacturer says should not be used for towing at all,
  • sell hitches with trailer and tongue weight ratings much higher than the ratings of the vehicle according to the vehicle manufacturer, and
  • design hitches to attach to vehicle structures in ways which are not approved by the vehicle manufacturer.
The existence of a hitch does not even come close to indicating that the vehicle for which it is sold is suitable for use of that hitch at the hitch rating limits, including the use of WD.It doesn't even indicate that the way the hitch attaches to the vehicle structure can handle use at the rated limits of either the hitch or the vehicle. It only indicates that the hitch itself is probably suitable for use at its limits.
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:50 PM   #51
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I need to buy some new tires. What kind and size should I buy?
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:55 PM   #52
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Hidden Hitch rates my hitch receiver at 4,000 / 400 lbs. I'm sticking to the Toyota rating of 3,500 / 350.
Don't need no stink'n tires.
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:56 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Look up Hidden Hitch or eTrailer.com and ask about WDH receivers.
The hitch receivers are made for a WDH, designed and built for that purpose and for that vehicle.
Yes, that would probably address most of my concerns above since this would be something designed and tested for the application. In my case, I received my vehicle with the manufacturer provided hitch built on, so I might have unsuspectedly misused the equipment without input from this thread.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:09 PM   #54
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Tires? I love tires!

I'll be ok with my Highlander since it is rated to tow 5000 # and the Toyota manual states: " If the gross trailer weight is over 5000 lb. (2268 kg), a weight distributing hitch with sufficient capacity is required."

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Old 12-06-2016, 09:29 PM   #55
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Tires
Last set on the Highlander July 2014 to December 2016. Michelin LTX at 40 PSI checked once a week 77,000 miles, 4/32 remaining. Bought new ones last week.
Escape 19 2010 model Original Goodyear Marathons replaced March 2016 at least 42,000 miles 3/32 to 5/32 remaining 48 psi below 80 degrees F. 46 or 47 psi in the AM if anticipated temp for the day is in excess of 80 F. Get a Schrader or Acme gauge, use it. Like many of you I grew up in a genuine service station with greatest generation parents. We did not waste money or abuse and neglect our equipment. TBA baby, it put me through college.
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:42 PM   #56
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tba baby, it put me through college.
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tba?
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:56 PM   #57
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T b a

Hi Jim
Tires, Batteries and Accessories. That and Wynn's Friction Proofing. Started working at 14 for $.75 an hour. Of course the first year I was at Iowa State, the rascals raised Tuition from $95 to $104 a trimester. Gas was $.32 a gallon, candy bars were a nickel and Grain Belt was $.89 a six on sale. Oh for the good old days. And a new liver.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:15 PM   #58
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I had great parents too fortunately and have homilies of my own that I share with my kids. They roll their eyes, but someday they hopefully will remember.

Tires are super important and I start looking when they are past a certain age, as with our low mileage Toyota sedan or when they start looking thin on the tread.
Very glad I didn't wait on the original tires on the 21 to change, although they had 1/3 life left probably. That's because when crossing over Kebler Pass going from Crested Butte to Paonia while driving cautiously the trailer started drifting towards the oncoming lane while descending. Parts of the road are unpaved and they put a material on it that can be slick when wet. Was able to recover thankfully but was glad I had just purchased new tires.

Here's a good link about How Safe Are Worn Tires:

Safety Risks of Worn Tires - Consumer Reports
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:33 AM   #59
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Promised to dig up service record regarding Hidden Hitch WDH receiver that was installed at dealership prior to delivery ( see post #20 ). It's been eight years since the receiver was installed. Toyota service reported:
Attached Thumbnails
hitch receiver check.jpg  
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:11 AM   #60
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Searched Volvo XC-90 hitch on etrailer.com and found they offer one by Curt.
It says:
  • Receiver opening: 2" x 2"
  • Rating: Class III
    • Maximum gross trailer weight: 6,000 lbs
    • Maximum tongue weight: 900 lbs
    • Not rated for use with weight distribution systems
  • Limited lifetime warranty
Trade you my 2008 RAV4 Sport for your XC-90. I'll throw in the WDH.
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