ok never heard of truck squat before. this hitch stuff has me a little worried probably over thinking it but my build sheet is done and the trailer is paid for so its the last thing for me to worry about!
Hi Fox hunt,
Honestly I think you will be ok. with your truck only being 55" tall and a 33.6" bed and stock shocks, your probably looking at 2" maybe 2-1/2" squat and +- inch high should be fine. You are lucky I had my truck serviced Monday and there was a brand new 2017 xlt 4x4 with 6.5' bed, the service manger was kind enough to measure the overall height and bed 57.5" over all with a 36" bed height.
I do not understand why they keep making them taller ?
I do not understand why they keep making them taller ?
To impress people with the size. Same reason that cars come with hundreds of horsepower, wheels are up to 22" in diameter, and so on. Since truck overall tire diameters keep growing - to impress people rather than for load capacity - the axle height grows; allowing for more wheel travel than the stock truck can do (but necessary for modified trucks featured in magazines) drives the box floor up, then adding a deep box (so the body looks impressively massive) gets you to eye level for an average adult... who cannot possibly load cargo over the box side in an reasonable way.
To impress people with the size. Same reason that cars come with hundreds of horsepower, wheels are up to 22" in diameter, and so on. Since truck overall tire diameters keep growing - to impress people rather than for load capacity - the axle height grows; allowing for more wheel travel than the stock truck can do (but necessary for modified trucks featured in magazines) drives the box floor up, then adding a deep box (so the body looks impressively massive) gets you to eye level for an average adult... who cannot possibly load cargo over the box side in an reasonable way.
LOl, Yea that is exactly how I felt, you almost need a ladder.
I do wonder what the squat is for these newer trucks with stock shocks. I used my trucks 1-1/2' squat as a bases but I have Bilstein shocks and road masters.
I mean would 2" to 2-1/2" inches be out the question for the newer trucks ? If so that would defiantly change the high lift considerations.
...
I do wonder what the squat is for these newer trucks with stock shocks. I used my trucks 1-1/2' squat as a bases but I have Bilstein shocks and road masters.
Suspension compression under load primarily depends on the springs, not the shock absorbers. Modern shocks usually do have some internal gas pressure which gives them some spring effect, but it's nothing compared to the springs.
Spring stiffness depends on equipment choices, such as a "payload package", and of course optional add-on springs such as the Roadmaster kits, which have come up in forum discussions before.
Tin...in response to your question about how much the new F150 "squats" I can provide my measurements for our 2017 Ford F150 4x4 5.5' box with standard suspension. Unhitched from the trailer the bed height is 34.5" and with the 2017 5.0TA hitched the height is 33". I assume the drop below the factory spec of 35.7" is impacted by my add-ons of 36 gallon fuel tank, class IV trailer hitch, and underbed gooseneck hitch.
Regarding a few more of the points you raised: My Andersen ultimate hitch results in the bottom of the kingpin plate being 17.5" above the truck bed so adding 33" to the ground totals 50.5" compared to your measurement of 47" for a level trailer. This has led me to explore the leveling options you listed and for those considering the Andersen ultimate there is also the option of the "lowered" version. I already had the regular height Andersen and a trailer without high-lift so I chose to raise the pin box 2.5" and have been satisfied with the results. The frame under the loft clears the truck sides by 6.5" and I have been able to leave a tri-fold tonnaeu cover in place although its 3" height causes some concern. The Andersen adapter is turned towards the rear and clearance at the cab and sides of the truck has been fine.
In summary, all choices of trailer/tug hitching require considerations for how to work through challenges. Looking back I'm glad I didn't get the high lift option but I may have preferred the "lowered" Andersen hitch since raising the pin box was difficult. I wouldn't let those challenges particular to the 5.0TA/F150 dissuade you from that combo. The Ford is a great truck and I especially like the 10 speed transmission when towing. YMMV
ive been looking for the lowered version i cannot find it on the web site. it does say its adjustable -but you are saying even at the lowest adjustment its too high?
... This has led me to explore the leveling options you listed and for those considering the Andersen ultimate there is also the option of the "lowered" version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox hunt
ive been looking for the lowered version i cannot find it on the web site.
There is (or was) a lower Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection which is intended for flat-deck trucks, which typically have a deck which is higher than a pickup box (because it goes over the wheels, instead of down between them. It was part #3221 and #3236, but would not be useful for a pickup because it was the "gooseneck"-anchored style and as the installation manual explained,
Quote:
The 3221 is a shorter version of the 3220 and is intended ONLY for flat-bed truck installations where the gooseneck ball is recessed below the bed.
The anchoring mechanism protrudes down about 2.25" past the base. It was easy to find in their old web site, but I don't see it in their prettier but useless current one. I have not heard of a lower model which would work in a pickup, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
Don't bother downloading their "catalog"... it's just a 30-page ad without useful product information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox hunt
it does say its adjustable -but you are saying even at the lowest adjustment its too high?
The adjustment range of the normal Andersen Ultimate was (from a drawing posted when Andersen still provided useful information) 15.75 to 18.00 inches from the bottom of the base to the top of the ball (rail mount) or 16.35 to 18.6 inches ("gooseneck"-anchored version). Since the rails add height, the two versions are equivalent in installed ball position. The #3221/3236 is 12.35 to 14.6 inches to the top of the ball, but not usable with a pickup.
With current trucks tending to be at least 32" tall to the floor, with an Andersen the top of the ball will be at least 48" from the ground, and the king pin box plate will be a bit higher than that (due to the coupler box thickness). That's on the high side of standard for fifth-wheels, and with some trucks it will be even higher, as Tin and Tom have explained.
Just speaking for my truck, the Andersen ultimate 3220 was too high at its lowest setting. For others the 3220 has worked fine. I just called Andersen hitches and they verified the lowered version 3221 is available and will call me back about its fit on a standard pickup bed. It sounds like the attachment tube length is the only variable and they are making a 10.75" and a 7.5" tube. The website I saw indicated three ball settings: 12.375", 13.475", 14.625" so its highest setting is 2.125" lower than the lowest setting on model 3220.
I apologize for not verifying the lowered version before calling it an option but it still may be and I will let you know what I find out.
Location: Victoria, Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA
Posts: 394
Kate, I have a 2017, F150 XLT, 4x4, 5.6' bed with a Curt under mount gooseneck ball in the bed. We use the latest version of the Andersen ultimate with the red adapter facing back. Our TA is 2015 with spring tandem axles, with the ball set to the lowest position, the trailer sits about one inch+ high in the front. I could adjust the pin box, but I don't think it is an issue. I don't think having the trailer front up a slight bit is an issue for this suspension, but may be for the new torsion suspension.
In any case, ETI/Dennis is very good at adjusting and setting up the trailer/truck combo. I would not worry about it.
Chris, are your springs above the axle beams (taller trailer) or below the axle beams (lower trailer)? While using this suspension design, Escape equipped the axle beams with dual spring perches so they can be used either way, and set the trailers up to suit the buyer's truck.
I just called Andersen hitches and they verified the lowered version 3221 is available and will call me back about its fit on a standard pickup bed. It sounds like the attachment tube length is the only variable and they are making a 10.75" and a 7.5" tube. The website I saw indicated three ball settings: 12.375", 13.475", 14.625" so its highest setting is 2.125" lower than the lowest setting on model 3220.
That's not how the lower version worked a couple of years ago, but they could have redesigned the product without changing the part number, offering a shorter anchoring mechanism. I may just be missing the current information due to the "improved" website.
I have attached the standard (3220 and 3225) and lowered (3221 and 3236) side views as images, in dimensioned drawings from Andersen; the lower version has a lower pyramid so the ball is lower, but the same anchor mechanism so it protrudes and requires a well in the truck floor. Sorry about the black bars - I had to add margins so the forum wouldn't distort the relative sizes, and they came out black.
I also attached the full drawing document as a PDF file for the lowered version, but the forum software won't accept the larger file for the standard version.
These are all "gooseneck" style Ultimate frames. A lower version of the rail-mounted frame would not have the protruding anchor mechanism, but a flat-deck truck with rails would be unusual so it is not surprising that Andersen doesn't appear to offer this variant.
Location: Victoria, Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Chris, are your springs above the axle beams (taller trailer) or below the axle beams (lower trailer)? While using this suspension design, Escape equipped the axle beams with dual spring perches so they can be used either way, and set the trailers up to suit the buyer's truck.
Brian, we have the standard height, AKA lower trailer setup. When I measure from the ground to the bottom of the frame between the wheels, I get 17 3/4 inch.
Brian, we have the standard height, AKA lower trailer setup. When I measure from the ground to the bottom of the frame between the wheels, I get 17 3/4 inch.
That's not how the lower version worked a couple of years ago, but they could have redesigned the product without changing the part number, offering a shorter anchoring mechanism. I may just be missing the current information due to the "improved" website.
I have attached the standard (3220 and 3225) and lowered (3221 and 3236) side views as images, in dimensioned drawings from Andersen; the lower version has a lower pyramid so the ball is lower, but the same anchor mechanism so it protrudes and requires a well in the truck floor. Sorry about the black bars - I had to add margins so the forum wouldn't distort the relative sizes, and they came out black.
I also attached the full drawing document as a PDF file for the lowered version, but the forum software won't accept the larger file for the standard version.
These are all "gooseneck" style Ultimate frames. A lower version of the rail-mounted frame would not have the protruding anchor mechanism, but a flat-deck truck with rails would be unusual so it is not surprising that Andersen doesn't appear to offer this variant.
Brian, I received this response from Andersen Mfg regarding the lowered ultimate hitch 3221:
"Attached you will find the drawing we spoke of. In talking to Spencer, the 7-1/2" coupler tube is just shy of working. We would need to do a custom tube for you which would carry a $75 customization fee, so please factor that into your decision."
Brian, I received this response from Andersen Mfg regarding the lowered ultimate hitch 3221:
"Attached you will find the drawing we spoke of. In talking to Spencer, the 7-1/2" coupler tube is just shy of working. We would need to do a custom tube for you which would carry a $75 customization fee, so please factor that into your decision."
Thanks
So they have reduced the length of the coupler tube (anchoring mechanism), but not quite enough so it still protrudes a bit, leading to the customization to make it work properly. I think I would be inclined to offer to be the test user for this improved design, rather than to pay them to fix it, but on the scale of total expenditure I suppose $75 doesn't matter.
NOTE: This unit is 4" lower than the standard Aluminum Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection 2 (part # 3220) and is mainly intended to be used with flatbed trucks that have a RECESSED gooseneck ball. If your gooseneck ball is not recessed, please see part #3220. Using the 3221 base in a truck bed that has sidewalls may cause damage to the truck or hitch! Please call us if you have any questions.
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