Brake controller challenge with 2018 Highlander

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I think if Toyota says a vehicle can tow 5000 lbs, then they also know that such a trailer would need electric brakes and a brake controller. Yes, a prospective owner needs to know what is included and what is not, I get that. But Toyota's offering here is illogical.

It would also need a tow ball.
Toyota offers a "tow prep" package, not a tow package.

Did your F150 come with a tow ball?

I think it's up to the prospective owner to ask what's included and what's not.

That said, I was surprised to find my new 2008 RAV4 had cruise control. Came with the "Sport" package. Not sure how logical that is.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

It would also need a tow ball.
Toyota offers a "tow prep" package, not a tow package.

Did your F150 come with a tow ball?

I think it's up to the prospective owner to ask what's included and what's not.

That said, I was surprised to find my new 2008 RAV4 had cruise control. Came with the "Sport" package. Not sure how logical that is.

Well, I did say my take might be controversial. A stinger is not the same thing as wiring. And if it truly was a tow "prep" package, that implies it's prepared.

[gbaglo]

Well, my RAV4 had the tow prep package and it included larger alternator, radiator, transmission fluid cooler, which are all items that make more sense to have factory installed, so it was tow prepped.
Hitch and ball, wiring, brake controller ( and the trailer too, I suspect ) would be part of a tow package .

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Well, my RAV4 had the tow prep package and it included larger alternator, radiator, transmission fluid cooler, which are all items that make more sense to have factory installed, so it was tow prepped.
Hitch and ball, wiring, brake controller ( and the trailer too, I suspect ) would be part of a tow package .

C'mon Glenn, a ball? Can't think of any tow package that ever came with a ball, and I would not want it if it did. In my case since I use an Andersen WDH, the ball would be useless anyway. But a 7-pin connection and pre wiring for a brake controller would be pretty dang useful.

[gbaglo]

I'd trade my cruise control for a rear view camera...or anything else.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I'd trade my cruise control for a rear view camera...or anything else.

Lol...you old pot stirrer you. [emoji23]

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

But a 7-pin connection and pre wiring for a brake controller would be pretty dang useful.

Have to be careful what you ask for.

My RAV4 was wired for brake controller and 7-pin and had the class III hitch receiver installed for $650. Was wired with 10 gauge. Work was done at the dealership by an after market installer prior to me taking possession.
I could have got the factory class II hitch receiver for only $950 ( as in only the receiver ).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

This has been an interesting thread. My take may be controversial, but here goes: I think if Toyota says a vehicle can tow 5000 lbs, then they also know that such a trailer would need electric brakes and a brake controller.

But it doesn't. Use surge brakes and you don't need the controller. Or use a trailer-mounted controller. Sure, most people towing 5,000 pounds want to use an electric brake controller, but it is not a universal requirement... just add "likely" in front of "need" to make a valid statement.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

In my humble opinion it's nonsensical to not offer a 7-pin and brake controller wiring in such a case.
...
But Toyota's offering here is illogical.

While an earlier post reports that Ford now apparently includes 7-pin wiring in the Explorer, they have certainly sold very many SUVs with 3500 pound ratings and hitch packages and no 7-pin wiring - we've discussed this in the forum. That is just as illogical, and I find it frustrating, too.

I agree that among a group of people whose only connection is interest in a certain brand of travel trailer (every model of which has electric brakes), there will be broad agreement that this situation is illogical. And I agree that it would be better for the buyer to include pre-wiring for a 7-pin connector and brake controller in the Highlander... and every other vehicle with a trailer weight rating over 1500 pounds, of every brand. On the other hand, the vast majority of owners of these vehicles will never tow, won't pay a penny more for towing preparation to be included in their vehicles, and won't buy one brand over the other because of towing preparation. The few dollars that could have pre-wired for towing instead bought you more power that you don't use, or another speaker in the sound system, or some other silly feature that the marketing people said would be more beneficial to sales of this model. That's life.

The contempt expressed here for Toyota is interesting. The same situation occurs with at least some models of every brand, but Toyota seems to get all of the criticism... especially from people who own neither a Toyota or an equivalent model from another manufacturer. I suppose they'll just shrug it off and continue to out-sell every other manufacturer in the world (although VW may catch them this year, which is another towing preparation story in itself); strange, for such an obviously incompetent company.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

And if it truly was a tow "prep" package, that implies it's prepared.

Toyota has long offered "tow preparation" packages which increase the GCWR to allow for greater towing weight; if it were a hitch package, that's what it would be called. They also offer hitches and wiring, either separately or in packages, for vehicles which don't have them as base equipment. The same is true of other manufacturers. Most factory towing packages - Toyota and otherwise - do not include a brake controller, even though most people expect to use one... and that's okay because the package content listing doesn't include the controller.

At least at Toyota, the contents of each package are explicitly listed; I just checked a Ford Edge, and for the towing package the online build tool doesn't even mention a hitch or wiring , let alone the size of receiver (1.25"? 2"?), the connector (4-pin? 7-pin? none?), or provisions for a brake controller. The Edge's equipment may be fine, but the buyer can't tell from the build tool. By the way, you can't buy that towing package on an Edge SE with the same engine... you need to pay to upgrade to the SEL for some entirely unrelated comfort and convenience items (heated steering wheel, better sound system...) to be allowed to pay for the towing equipment. Logical? Yes, to the marketing people.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

C'mon Glenn, a ball? Can't think of any tow package that ever came with a ball, and I would not want it if it did.

I don't see much point in that, either, but a ball and ball mount is offered by more than one brand. It may be a way to offer a "one-stop shopping" experience. The amusing part is that only one drop dimension is usually offered... as if all trailers have the same coupler height.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Have to be careful what you ask for.

My RAV4 was wired for brake controller and 7-pin and had the class III hitch receiver installed for $650. Was wired with 10 gauge. Work was done at the dealership by an after market installer prior to me taking possession.
I could have got the factory class II hitch receiver for only $950 ( as in only the receiver ).

Yep, proving my point. Toyota's factory towing options (and they are not the only company with this issue) leave something to be desired.

But having said that, even Ford does some nonsensical things, like offering a tow package complete with everything except their integrated brake controller. I had it installed by the dealer on my previous truck, but ordered it for the factory build on my new one.

[rbryan4]

I've no contempt for Toyota, Brian. Just a belief that a tow package or prep package or whatever term is used shouldn't have so many caveats. And yes, I'm fully aware that other manufacturers do it too.

[gbaglo]

HEY!
I paid for an argument.

[Chris & Patricia]

Having recently looked at a number of new and second hand vehicles, it did quite surprise me the number of Vehicles, including both Ford F-150 and Toyota Tundra ultimately our first choices as TVs, that had the so called factory "tow" packages, but didn't come with an integrated brake controller. They also didn't always have the 7 pin wiring either.

Having already gone through the pain of getting a brake controller installed on our previous TV, when looking at a new TV, one of the first questions we asked was does the vehicle come with an integrated brake controller. Its not than anything is wrong with an after market controller, its that I just kept banging my knee on it. However, it soon became apparent that quite a few salesmen said they did when they didn't.

It is tough when first looking for a TV and you know nothing about it. However, its also pretty important to go do your research first and/or ask for help, before pressing the "buy" button. Remember a vehicle salesman is not always your friend, he's a salesman first and foremost.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Chris & Patricia

...
it did quite surprise me the number of Vehicles, including both Ford F-150 and Toyota Tundra ultimately our first choices as TVs, that had the so called factory "tow" packages, but didn't come with an integrated brake controller. They also didn't always have the 7 pin wiring either.

The F150 towing package does include the 7-pin. But the integrated brake controller is only included with the "heavy duty" tow package.

[cpaharley2008]

We maybe looking at the tow package with blinders, we tow rv's, a type of trailer. I see a lot of commercial trailers being towed, mainly lawn service and home improvement, the majority of them have surge brakes, just a 4 pin electrical connection and a myriad of heights. So I can understand not providing a fixed height ball and a brake controller because of too many variables.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

We maybe looking at the tow package with blinders, we tow rv's, a type of trailer. I see a lot of commercial trailers being towed, mainly lawn service and home improvement, the majority of them have surge brakes, just a 4 pin electrical connection and a myriad of heights. So I can understand not providing a fixed height ball and a brake controller because of too many variables.

Fair enough. But why not offer such things (except the hitch ball - that makes no sense) as a factory option? Perhaps the cost involved in changing up the assembly line? Or perhaps Toyota and others assume that any camping trailer with electric brakes would weigh more than the Highlander can tow? On a Tundra for example, they have a factory 7-pin, but only for the 4.6L V8.

[Dave Walter]

I purchased my 2011 Toyota FJ Cruiser (5000 lb tow capacity) with the optional hitch and 7-pin trailer wiring. It did not come with a 12V wire to the 7-pin, and I had to add it myself. The FJ was also not wired for a brake controller and it was fairly expensive to have done, so I purchased a Tekonsha Prodigy RF, which is a wireless controller that required no additional wiring on the tow vehicle.

When I purchased my 2018 Toyota Rav4 XLE Trail Edition (3500 lb tow capacity), the dealer wanted an extra $1750 to include a hitch and 4-pin wiring for the trailer. We decided to forego the $1750 and go with an aftermarket hitch and 7-pin wiring harness (to be installed). Again, to save hassles with wiring a brake controller, we will use a Tekonsha Prodigy RF wireless controller for the brakes on this vehicle.

I also feel that it would be nice for the manufacturers to truly produce a tow package that makes the vehicle ready to tow, but until some changes are made, I guess we will have to manage those things ourselves.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

The F150 towing package does include the 7-pin. But the integrated brake controller is only included with the "heavy duty" tow package.

It can be ordered as an option with the standard tow package.

Overall, it pays to check what any manufacturer includes with their "Tow Package". Seems almost everyone is different, and many trucks offer a number of different tow package options. I have to admit I was surprised when my tow packaged RAV4 didn't even have the wiring for a 4 pin connector (it was an option). Even with surge brakes, I would still need the 4 pin wiring to deal with the lights, turn signals, etc.

[caddoster]

We got the 2007 FJ without a tow package initially and added the hitch, 7-pin connector and installed the brake controller (P3) in 2013 when we start towing a custom offroad trailer.. We installed the OEM tow harness ourselves and that seemed pretty straight forward, the only "hard" part during the installation as I recalled was finding a spot for the brake controller...


The Lexus GX460 we got in 2017 come with a tow package and it come with 7pin and hitch, a little connector at the front driver area for brake controller. We bought a Toyota/Lexus wire harness for the P3 and it's good to go... finding a place for the controller without bumping into the knees continue to be a problem tho...

[Fox hunt]

i had to install the break controller on my Highlander also kept hitting my knee on it! but otherwise it worked well. also had to do the plug upgrade. all went well loved my Highlander