DIY install of F150 bed rails for 5th wheel hitch

[Shearwater]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

The solution to this concern is to install a conventional 5th Wheel hitch and eliminate the need for safety chains at the same time.

Not an option for those of us with low payloads, I can't afford to add the weight of a conventional 5th wheel in my F150. Next time I buy a truck I'll be more aware of payload vs tow capacity.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

The solution to this concern is to install a conventional 5th Wheel hitch and eliminate the need for safety chains at the same time.

Thank you! Indeed - I have looked at the alternatives.The main concern is the weight - as our payload will be (sufficient but) on the low side. Demco seems like an alternative but even that is more than 50 lbs more in weight over Anderson Ultimate...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

DIY is not an option, so it will be a third party install of rails - to fit an Anderson Ultimate type hitch. The problem is that I have no ability to credibly QA the installation work by some mechanic.

The basic check is just to make sure that all of the parts and bolts are in place. The installation instructions (for any brand) are available online, and to check them you don't even have to touch them... just see them. If you or a friend can slide underneath and point a flashlight, it should be feasible to check that.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The basic check is just to make sure that all of the parts and bolts are in place. The installation instructions (for any brand) are available online, and to check them you don't even have to touch them... just see them. If you or a friend can slide underneath and point a flashlight, it should be feasible to check that.

Thank you, Brian! That seems like something I could do. Depending upon the situation, I might even be able to ask the installer to let me see that...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

There are some horror stories (and pictures) around Anderson Ultimate hitch failures where the ball at the top of the pyramid shears off. Not sure how worried one should be around that. So far, keeping that concern at bay with the positive experience here on the forum and modest weight of Escape 5.0.

I haven't heard of those, and would be surprised if it happened with a trailer within the hitch system's rated weight limit and a properly installed system. What was the weight of the trailer involved?

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I haven't heard of those, and would be surprised if it happened with a trailer within the hitch system's rated weight limit and a properly installed system. What was the weight of the trailer involved?

I was just looking at the Amazon reviews - which are very positive overall. But, there are a couple 1-star reviews which seem to report sharing of the ball. Of course, anything can have issues and weight of Escape 5.0 is likely much lower, but the pictures seem to suggest a bad failure.

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00TAPLR1W

Not looking to overreact and still planning on it but it did make me think of this point.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

I was just looking at the Amazon reviews - which are very positive overall. But, there are a couple 1-star reviews which seem to report sharing of the ball. Of course, anything can have issues and weight of Escape 5.0 is likely much lower, but the pictures seem to suggest a bad failure.

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00TAPLR1W

Not looking to overreact and still planning on it but it did make me think of this point.

Interesting, but perhaps the only source less reliable than a forum discussion is an online review.

The January 10, 2019 "Amazon Customer" review shows the hitch coming off the bed-mounted ball and the Andersen ball fracturing off; my guess is that it was not properly secured to the bed-mounted ball and when the hitch frame tilted it bend the Anderesen ball (which should never be allowed), breaking it. That's only a guess, but it illustrates why the background is important.

The February 29, 2020 "richard meade" review shows the Andersen frame twisted, apparently after a weld failure under braking load. The reviewer gives an actual trailer weight which is reasonable - a surprise. This could be a welding defect, or (my guess is less likely) a dishonest review. I wonder if the trailer was being pulled with non-functional trailer brakes, although this shouldn't be fatal to the hitch.

The January 11, 2020 "Peter" review is interesting, because all four legs of the Andersen frame were torn apart, not at the welds; the ball and coupler survived. I would bet that this is a very heavy trailer, but it could be a bad batch of material, or improper heat treatment.

Those are all of the failures listed. I wouldn't worry about them, personally, but I hope that Andersen followed up on each of them to be sure that they understand what happened.

[kavm]

Thank you very much for looking these... I wasn't giving these reviews a huge weight but they were worrisome and I did not know how to assess their validity. So, having your take on them is very helpful indeed.

I definitely need to economize on the weight. As I have mentioned earlier, we are buying a 2021 F150-6.5' with the hybrid engine. A lot of great features (including a 7.2kW built in generator) but low payload between 1350-1420 lbs. [Similar configurations are not on the lot, so some guesswork.] I think we will be fine: 280# (driver+passenger) + 820# (E5.0 tongue weight) + 100# (hitch + rails) = 1200#. But, we cannot afford any excess weight that the traditional 5th wheel hitches seem to require - and Andersen Ultimate makes most sense in our situation...

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Interesting, but perhaps the only source less reliable than a forum discussion is an online review.

I cannot agree more, Brian. Sometimes I suspect that some of the most negative Amazon reviews are posted by competitors who “diss” a product in hopes of boosting their own sales. I purchased a small RC switch a few months back from Amazon. It was a Chinese company, not that the origin matters. When it arrived, I found it to be useless garbage, but it contained a poorly-worded note stating that I would be sent a bonus gift once I posted and emailed them a copy of my “5-star review.” Since it was not expensive, I threw it out and ordered a similar item from a different Chinese vendor. When the “replacement” item arrived, I found it to be of good quality.

[kavm]

C&G in FL - Understood. The only reason I gave weight to the reviews is that there are photographs attached and there was some detail there.

It helped a lot to read Brian’s take on them.

[RicVic]

Smart idea! I’ve done both and will have a shop install my next one when it is time for a new truck.

[Shearwater]

Got my bed rails installed today along with a 7 pin socket on the wall of my box. Local installer quoted a very reasonable price for parts and labor. The work looks great although I haven't climbed underneath the truck yet to verify the quality of the work there. Glad I got this done in a shop, would have cost me almost as much for parts and tools to do it myself. And my 72 year old older brother was really not looking forward to helping. (Yes I know, I don't have all the pins installed yet).

[Tom&Joan]

The discussion of DIY/vs "professional" reminds me of when in my late teens my father had a hitch professionally installed. It was actually the trailer dealer who arranged for the installation. It was a terrible job. I wanted to do it, but I guess my father did not trust me. The icing on the cake was that years prior the same guy welded a hitch on a different family car. It was also a bad job, I guess his skills never progressed.
I'll be installing the 5th wheel hitch for our next truck to be purchased in the spring, and am looking forward to it. At 80 plus I still get around under a vehicle real well and enjoy it.
I

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Shearwater

Looks like Reese makes an updated rail kit with outward facing flanges for mounting to the truck frame. And maybe the Demco kit would do the job for half the price. Darn those etrailer guys! Lots of helpful information but sometimes they make you search a bit.

Still looking for anyone who has installed their own rails with a 36 gallon tank. I'd had to put a drill bit through it.

I used a step drill (electricians use them) to drill the holes in the bed of my truck when I did the rail install on my Tundra. The step drill is short and kind of helps by only allowing you to go so far. I also did a small pilot hold from below to help locating the holes...if you can't get a pilot for all of them at least shoot for one per bracket so you have a starting point. Here is an example of a step drill.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Po...s/N-5yc1vZc90q

[Shearwater]

Originally Posted by Tom&Joan

The discussion of DIY/vs "professional" reminds me of when in my late teens my father had a hitch professionally installed. It was actually the trailer dealer who arranged for the installation. It was a terrible job. I wanted to do it, but I guess my father did not trust me. The icing on the cake was that years prior the same guy welded a hitch on a different family car. It was also a bad job, I guess his skills never progressed.
I'll be installing the 5th wheel hitch for our next truck to be purchased in the spring, and am looking forward to it. At 80 plus I still get around under a vehicle real well and enjoy it.
I

I was looking forward to doing the install but we now live in a condo. Most of my tools are gone, no real space to work. I was going to need my older brother's garage and tools. He was the one who vetoed the project.

[oak1056]

Originally Posted by kavm

Thank you very much for looking these... I wasn't giving these reviews a huge weight but they were worrisome and I did not know how to assess their validity. So, having your take on them is very helpful indeed.

I definitely need to economize on the weight. As I have mentioned earlier, we are buying a 2021 F150-6.5' with the hybrid engine. A lot of great features (including a 7.2kW built in generator) but low payload between 1350-1420 lbs. [Similar configurations are not on the lot, so some guesswork.] I think we will be fine: 280# (driver+passenger) + 820# (E5.0 tongue weight) + 100# (hitch + rails) = 1200#. But, we cannot afford any excess weight that the traditional 5th wheel hitches seem to require - and Andersen Ultimate makes most sense in our situation...

Hi, Regarding to the payload of the f150 hybrid engine, 1810 -2090 lbs. is the range, based on ford's spec.(https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech_Specs.pdf). For the hitch weight of 5.0TA, ETI chart says 646lb. Please let me know if I am wrong because I am interested in the same truck for my 5.0 too. Thank you.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by wendyc_y2k@yahoo.com

Hi, Regarding to the payload of the f150 hybrid engine, 1810 -2090 lbs. is the range, based on ford's spec.(https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech_Specs.pdf). For the hitch weight of 5.0TA, ETI chart says 646lb. Please let me know if I am wrong because I am interested in the same truck for my 5.0 too.

Interesting. According to that table, with the V8 and either non-hybrid EcoBoost there are two GVWR choices for each wheelbase, and the 4X4 gets slightly higher GVWR than the 4X2 (to make up for the extra weight of the 4WD system), but the hybrid (which only comes in SuperCab) gets only one GVWR regardless of 4WD. It's the second-highest GVWR for the F-150 (exceed only by the Heavy-Duty Payload Package); that makes the payload good on the lightest configuration (5.5' box 4X2) but a bit disappointing on the trucks that most people want for towing (6.5' box 4X4).

Those payloads (1810 to 2120 pounds) are for the base trim (XL), with zero options. No one will ever find that truck at a dealership, and real trucks will have hundreds of pounds less payload... but presumably still at least 1350 pounds.

820 pounds is a more typical pin weight for the loaded 5.0TA than the 646 pounds which is for the base version when dry and empty.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by wendyc_y2k@yahoo.com

Hi, Regarding to the payload of the f150 hybrid engine, 1810 -2090 lbs. is the range, based on ford's spec.(https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech_Specs.pdf). For the hitch weight of 5.0TA, ETI chart says 646lb. Please let me know if I am wrong because I am interested in the same truck for my 5.0 too. Thank you.

The payload numbers for 2021 F150 PowerBoost you are thinking are too optimistic. They exclude all option weights. Depending upon trim and options, you should expect a payload between 1225-1600 lbs, based upon trim/options.

Also, I am counting a tongue weight of 800-820 lbs for Escape 5.0 in my calculations. I do not know if that's right but I think the ETI's tongue weight figure might end up being an underestimate for real world usage.

I calculated our minimum payload needs as:

• Driver + Passenger = 280 lbs
• Hitch and tongue weight = 100 lbs (assuming Andersen Ultimate on rails)
• E5.0 tongue weight = 820 lbs
• Total = 1200 lbs

We are expecting a payload between 1325-1400 lbs (hopefully the higher end but not confident), after spending a lot of thought to try to maximize payload. So, we left out some of the options we wanted like moonroof, FX4 (got the plain 4x4), spray bedliner, hard tonneau, etc. But, we ordered a fairly highly equipped Platinum, 6.5' with 701H, 7.2kW gen, max tow and the interior options, it is not lightly optioned.

The real payload of the vehicle as optioned is on the door sticker. I have seen payload as low as something like 1225 lbs for this truck - so it is important to inform yourself. Payload is one aspect of the hybrid truck that people are justifiably disappointed in. I have researched the payload question extensively and happy to help if you have further questions.


PS: I suggest you remove your email address from the user name. It is not a great idea in the world we live in. Contact a moderator if you need help.

[oak1056]

Originally Posted by kavm

The payload numbers for 2021 F150 PowerBoost you are thinking are too optimistic. They exclude all option weights. Depending upon trim and options, you should expect a payload between 1225-1600 lbs, based upon trim/options.

Also, I am counting a tongue weight of 800-820 lbs for Escape 5.0 in my calculations. I do not know if that's right but I think the ETI's tongue weight figure might end up being an underestimate for real world usage.

I calculated our minimum payload needs as:

• Driver + Passenger = 280 lbs
• Hitch and tongue weight = 100 lbs (assuming Andersen Ultimate on rails)
• E5.0 tongue weight = 820 lbs
• Total = 1200 lbs

We are expecting a payload between 1325-1400 lbs (hopefully the higher end but not confident), after spending a lot of thought to try to maximize payload. So, we left out some of the options we wanted like moonroof, FX4 (got the plain 4x4), spray bedliner, hard tonneau, etc. But, we ordered a fairly highly equipped Platinum, 6.5' with 701H, 7.2kW gen, max tow and the interior options, it is not lightly optioned.

The real payload of the vehicle as optioned is on the door sticker. I have seen payload as low as something like 1225 lbs for this truck - so it is important to inform yourself. Payload is one aspect of the hybrid truck that people are justifiably disappointed in. I have researched the payload question extensively and happy to help if you have further questions.


PS: I suggest you remove your email address from the user name. It is not a great idea in the world we live in. Contact a moderator if you need help.

thank you for the quick reply. I do have lots of questions regarding to the powerboost (actually 5.0TA too, but I will focus on the truck first). questons: 1. the above 1200lb. minimum payload doesn't include the truck cargo weight. What will it be roughly? 2. Will Andersen ultimate on rails can be installed without problem? What's other hardware needed? 3. When ordering my truck, How do I know the approximate payload after adding options?

I sent a request not to disclose my email, thank you for the reminder.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by wendyc_y2k@yahoo.com

Hi, Regarding to the payload of the f150 hybrid engine, 1810 -2090 lbs. is the range, based on ford's spec.(https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech_Specs.pdf). For the hitch weight of 5.0TA, ETI chart says 646lb. Please let me know if I am wrong because I am interested in the same truck for my 5.0 too. Thank you.

Please be aware that ETI’s published pin weight of 646 lbs. is, IMO, rather optimistic. The scale weight of mine (now referred to as a classic with its “airplane door”) is around 740 lbs., and the second generation 5.0TAs are heavier, but I am not sure if the pin weight between the two (fully empty) is the same.
I am towing with a 2020 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost Super Cab and Max Tow Package, not using an Anderson hitch. I use a Demco Recon, @ 100 lbs. If it helps, the sticker on the pillar of the driver’s door lists maximum passenger and cargo weight as 1,937 lbs. from the factory. That is no longer entirely accurate because the first thing I did was to install a Roadmaster HD Active Suspension. I’m not sure what it weighs but any weight addition after purchase has to be subtracted and the hitch reduces it by an additional 100 lbs. But I know I am well below the maximum when the truck is loaded for our excursions. If you are ordering a truck to your specifications, I would insist that the individual at the dealership confirm with the factory what the maximum cargo capacity will be based on the options you choose. My previous F-150 was 1,479 and I was skirting the maximum passenger/cargo capacitiy.