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Old 02-24-2016, 02:13 PM   #1
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First generation Tundra

Anyone towing a 5.0A with a first generation Tundra(4.7 with tow package). We are trying to make a decision between a 21 and the 5.0A . Thanks for any input.
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:52 PM   #2
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Anyone towing a 5.0A with a first generation Tundra(4.7 with tow package). We are trying to make a decision between a 21 and the 5.0A . Thanks for any input.
Welcome John. Even though we don’t tow our 5.0 TA with a Tundra other forum members do. Haven’t heard of any problems. Scott

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Old 02-24-2016, 05:22 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply!
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Old 02-24-2016, 05:49 PM   #4
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Anyone towing a 5.0A with a first generation Tundra(4.7 with tow package). We are trying to make a decision between a 21 and the 5.0A . Thanks for any input.
Welcome. You will get lots of good advice on this forum.
We are waiting for a 21. Cannot give you any input on a Tundra, but we wanted to keep the pickup bed with the camper shell we have so we went with the 21. With the 5.0A you lose the bed but gain shorter overall length and I guess better handling.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:38 PM   #5
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While there have been several discussions about towing a 5.0TA with newer Tundra, I don't recall seeing (and did not find in a quick search) any other discussion of towing a 5.0 or 5.0TA with a first-generation Tundra. Since a Frontier (a slightly smaller truck with a much smaller engine) can handle a 5.0TA, it seems reasonable that any Tundra could, but objective data would be better. Do you have specs for your Tundra: curb weight, GCWR, GVWR, GAWR (especially rear)... and how far is it from the back of the cab to the rear axle? Even just a little more description would help: which cab? 4WD?

According to the 2004 Tundra manual, the GCWR with a 4.7L (2UZ-FE engine) and towing package is 5352 kg or 11,800 pounds, so the towing capacity is 6700 to 7300 pounds, depending on how much of the truck's weight capacity is used up by the cab (there are three cab sizes) and optional 4WD; any Escape in tow will leave a decent amount of the total for passengers and cargo.

It seems unlikely that the Tundra would have any difficulty towing a 21'; a 5.0TA would be within the truck's total weight limit, but there might be issues with payload or clearance to the cab. The Access (extended) Cab and Double (crew) Cab both have the same cab-to-axle space... and it's pretty short, so the pin might need to go behind the axle, which can be difficult to arrange and can cause rear axle load problems. The manual specifically mentions and clearly allows fifth-wheel towing but doesn't list a pin weight limit - that's just a matter of fitting passengers, cargo, the weight of the hitch equipment itself, and the pin weight, within the truck's available payload.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:46 PM   #6
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Thanks thats very good information. I have an access cab with a 6.5 foot bed. The distance to the top of the bed is 50 inches below the requirement of 56 that I was given by the factory. Payload is 1530 lbs for that SR5 4 wheel drive model and a tow capacity of 7100 lbs. So while that is a little tight (payload)in my estimation I think its still falls in the safe range. Your well informed comment is very appreciated. I need to get another couple of years out the truck before replacement and we really want the 5.0 TA. But if we have to we will figure out another way. But at this point it looks like it may be ok.
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:17 PM   #7
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I did stumble across one first-generation Tundra owner towing an Escape 21':
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbito View Post
Payload capacity is rarely given the consideration it warrants. Our 2005 Tundra tows our Escape 21 with ease, but with our canopy, boat on roof rack, motors and fishing gear the truck is loaded to capacity. Still it handles it all well. But if we were towing a 5 TA it wouldn't leave room for any gear.

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...
I want to echo the concern about carrying weight. With our Escape 21 the hitch weight is far less than the Escape 5 TA's weight, but we are very near the limit of what our 2005 Tundra can carry. However we carry a boat, motors (gas and electric), generator, canopy and lots of fishing gear plus generator. If you carry much gear or many passengers then a 5th wheel could be a problem, at least if you want to keep within the legal limits for your vehicle. I should tell you that in my limited experience with trucks, our 1996 Ford F150 was scary carrying the same load and pulling the same trailer as our Tundra (Ford: less power; poor brakes; terrible suspension). Both trucks were at their carrying capacity, but the Tundra was sooo much better. I gather that the new Fords are also much better, or so I'm told.

Towing weight with a Tundra isn't an issue for either a 19, 21 or 5.0TA. Even fully loaded with gear we are way below our GCVW and that with a 2005 4.7 L Tundra (285 hp). On our most challenging hills on the Coquihalla pass in BC we can do 80 kph up the steepest inclines. With your 5.7 L and a slightly lighter Escape 19 you should be smokin' up hills like a hot damn.

Driving the Coquihalla to Kamloops FULLY loaded we get between 12-13 mpg. If we were driving flatter terrain and with a bit less gear I think it might be as high as 15 mpg. On the highway around the Lower Mainland (Vancouver area for non BC'ers) I don't get better than 20 mpg.

Bob K
The links can be followed to read these posts in the context of the original discussions.
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:27 PM   #8
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I have an access cab with a 6.5 foot bed.
I'm surprised that the bed is that long - it looks shorter. Maybe it's the proportions... usually with that length of bed, the axle is at about the midpoint, so there's about 39 inches from cab to axle, which is enough to have the hitch centred a couple inches ahead of the axle (which is where the available mounting systems normally put it). You might want to run a tape measure from cab to the middle of the wheel well for a sanity check, and an idea of whether you would need to think about placement of the hitch for a 5.0TA.

(image from Wikimedia Commons)

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The distance to the top of the bed is 50 inches below the requirement of 56 that I was given by the factory.
Looks like no problem there - the first-generation Tundra box is not especially high by today's standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave View Post
Payload is 1530 lbs for that SR5 4 wheel drive model and a tow capacity of 7100 lbs. So while that is a little tight (payload)in my estimation I think its still falls in the safe range. Your well informed comment is very appreciated. I need to get another couple of years out the truck before replacement and we really want the 5.0 TA. But if we have to we will figure out another way. But at this point it looks like it may be ok.
While only three-quarters of the highest payload of full-sized "half ton" trucks used to tow the 5.0TA, it's not bad and I think current owners have found it manageable... with care.
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:52 PM   #9
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Thanks again for the good information. I did verify it is a 6.5 foot bed, the standard cabs at that time had an 8 foot bed. I think it will work with the limitations of power and payload in mind. We can swing the trailer but not both at once.
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Old 02-25-2016, 01:48 AM   #10
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First generation Tundra

Brian, it surprised me to learn that the 3/4 sized Tundra had about the same payload as full sized Tundras, F150's etc. The payloads vary with features like 4x4, etc. Our F150's payload was only slightly more and that was because it wasn't a 4x4.. I can't speak for the newer F150's but I would guess their payloads aren't greater than the older models. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Old 02-25-2016, 01:54 AM   #11
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I just checked and the current full sized F150 has a payload almost identical to my 3/4 sized Tundra. Again, it surprised me when I looked into buying it. The full sized Tundras tow more, but have the same payloads. Go figure!

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Old 02-25-2016, 06:53 AM   #12
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There is a reason all these trucks are called "1/2 ton pickups" vs the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Axles, suspension,frame,brakes, are all updated while keeping the same engine in the bigger rated models.
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Old 02-25-2016, 09:01 AM   #13
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Like many "1/2 ton" trucks, our 3/4 sized Tundra has a load capacity of roughly 3/4 ton (over 1400 lbs). If I didn't have 4x4 it would haul a few hundred more pounds. So given a big enough motor these trucks will haul 3/4 ton, but that includes the passengers, canopy or tonneau, etc. The 1/2 ton label is a bit conservative for many of the modern truck models.

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Old 02-25-2016, 10:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbito View Post
Brian, it surprised me to learn that the 3/4 sized Tundra had about the same payload as full sized Tundras, F150's etc. The payloads vary with features like 4x4, etc. Our F150's payload was only slightly more and that was because it wasn't a 4x4.. I can't speak for the newer F150's but I would guess their payloads aren't greater than the older models. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Bob K (Bobbito was a nickname that stuck after an embarrassing moment on stage in Madrid)
Wardrobe Malfunction?
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Old 02-25-2016, 10:38 AM   #15
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Wardrobe Malfunction?

No, I didn’t lose my shorts on stage, but apparently I might as well have. We wormed our way close to the front of the stage in Plaza Mayor so I could photograph/video a popular local performer/actress (?soft porn?) leading the thousands of Madrid residents in a Zarzuela sing-a-long. She asked for a volunteer and recognizing my Canadian flag asked “Senor Canada” to come up on stage. (There were few tourists and so a 6 ft Canadian stands out a wee bit.) Wanting to be a good sport, I succumbed to the urging of those around me and ended up on stage for not just a minute or two, but about 15 terrifying minutes dancing with this lady, who kept stopping to tell some story. All this in front of thousands of locals. The only help I got was from the accordionist, who spoke some English and occasionally explained what she had said or wanted me to do next. I AM A TERRIBLE DANCER AND DO NOT LEAD WELL! She referred to me as Bobbito throughout the ordeal. Anyhow, when I finally got off the stage I realized how risqué the dialogue might have been, as a local grabbed me and my wife as we left and announced he knew a good divorce lawyer. A colleague who translated the dialogue for me off the video told me that she turned red as she listened to it. Hence the handle Bobbito.
(My apologies for hijacking this thread with the explanation. Lets get back to trucking.)

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Old 02-25-2016, 11:11 AM   #16
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Thats a great story. As a long time musician, that rivals the time we warmed the Shamu the Whale act at Seaworld for a few shows.
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:31 PM   #17
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Great story! I like the 'travel' connection.....to trucking.....
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:38 PM   #18
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Old 02-25-2016, 04:39 PM   #19
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Here's my logic to determine the cab-to-axle distance, from what I can readily find without having a Tundra:
  1. The "industry standard" rails appear to be placed 22" apart on centre, and about 5" wide, according to the diagram from eTrailer in an answer to a question.
  2. The installation instructions for a Reese mounting kit (N30035) show the rear edge of the rear rail at 32.5" from the rear edge of the box floor, putting the rail centre (pin position) 46" from the that rear edge.
  3. Reese says that's 1.25" ahead of axle centre, making the distance from axle centre to rear edge about 45".
  4. The long box is about 98" long, so from the front of the box to the axle is 53". This is a bit more than half the box length, which makes sense (sanity check passed); it is shorter ahead of the axle than typical for a long box, but I think these Tundras had more overhang than other full-size trucks because they were a little short in wheelbase (although not as bad as their T100 predecessor).
  5. The standard cab with long box is built on the same wheelbase as the Access cab with shorter (76") box, so if the part of the box behind the axle is the same (which is the current normal practice for pickup trucks) the extra cab length corresponds to the box length difference of 22"; that leaves 31" from the front of the box to the axle.
For Double cab owners: the Access and Double cabs have the same box length, because the wheelbase is stretched; it looks like the stretch matches the cab length difference so the same box is used.

So, if the pin is located an inch or two ahead of the axle, there will be be 29" to 30" from cab to axle - is that enough? It seems marginal, so a hitch which can shift the pin a bit rearward (such as the B&W Patriot fifth-wheel or the Andersen Ultimate ball conversion) might be in order.

Since the pin will probably end up slightly behind the axle, plan for the entire pin weight (plus a bit, and some cargo, and about 60% of the rear seat passenger weight) to be added to the rear axle load.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:39 AM   #20
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Thanks
I'll measure it after I get it back from my mechanic whose doing an exhaust manifold repair. I was also looking at the PullRite thread you started. Seems like that would also have the benefit of the pin shift also? I like that mount system as I am a complete newly. The last time I pulled a 5th wheel was over 40 years ago when I was 22 and had better eyes
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