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Old 06-20-2016, 05:53 PM   #1
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Full size pickup as a tow vehicle

I need to ask if it's possible to pull an Escape 5.0 or 5.0TA with a full size Ford F150 without any special modifications? I have just been "freaked out" to find out that this is an issue with other 5s
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:08 PM   #2
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The newer Ford F150's are rated by Ford for 5th wheel towing when properly equipped. Ram and Toyota are not rated by the manufacturer for 5th wheel towing. I would check your owners manual. Payload is still a major issue even with a " full size truck".
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:19 PM   #3
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I tow Ten Forward, a 2014 Escape 5.0TA with a 2014 Ford F-150 w/ecoboost and it's a great combo.


Is that what you're asking?
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:27 PM   #4
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5.0 hitch

D: We have an older Scamp and need more space so we've been considering the Escape 5.0 but have learned to solve the technical issues before we get too deep into any project. Practical experience is a great teacher. Anyway, I'm trying to learn about hitching a 5er. I've towed a gooseneck horse trailer for years but never even looked at a 5er until recently. I've just found the Fifth Wheel Street site relating information about fifth wheel safety so I was reading around and thought I'd ask about my F150. Glad to know that someone who really pulls uses the F150 successfully. Thanx
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Old 06-20-2016, 06:50 PM   #5
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:00 PM   #6
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We pull our 5.0TA with a GMC Sierra 1500 short bed (5'8") and have no problems. We do not use a slider hitch. Our owners manual says that the 1500 is not designed or approved to pull 5th wheels. There are a couple of us on the board with similar GMC/Chevy rigs. I do wish that I had at least a 6 ft bed, but the current setup works fine. The F150 equipped with the ecoboost and a tow package are very capable rigs and would pull the 5.0TA with ease. I have seen them pull smaller, full size conventional 5th wheels. Best of luck to you.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TheWanderers View Post
I need to ask if it's possible to pull an Escape 5.0 or 5.0TA with a full size Ford F150 without any special modifications? I have just been "freaked out" to find out that this is an issue with other 5s
What F150 do you have. The Ecoboost engines will tow, and I know most newer ones also have the payload capacity.

Heck, my temporary fifth wheel trailer (until the 2017 5.0 TA comes out) weights about 2,080 kg, (4,576 lb) lb dry, and my 2015 F150 3.5 litre Ecoboost pulls it with ease. With a pin weight of 460 kg dry I am pushing the payload rating though, but I just suck my gut in to save a few pounds.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:52 PM   #8
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Trucks can be too small to tow a fifth-wheel trailer - even for the lighter "full-sized" pickups the total trailer weight or the pin weight can be too much. An Escape 5.0TA is much lighter than most fifth-wheels but can have too much pin weight for many full-sized trucks due to the configuration of the truck (options); however, it's not a problem pulling an Escape if the truck is properly equipped. The F-150 specifically can easily be purchased with a suitable configuration to handle the load of an Escape 5.0 (but it is possible to configure one which will not properly handle the trailer).

Due to the assumption that all fifth-wheel trailers are very large, some trucks which are perfectly capable of towing an Escape 5.0TA will appear to be not recommended for fifth-wheel towing. They can still be used if a suitable hitch is available, and if all load ratings (GVWR, GAWR, GCWR) are observed. There is a good selection of fifth-wheel hitch hardware available for the F-150.

Trucks can be too large to tow the smaller fifth-wheels. The problem is that the sides of the box can be too high for the front of the trailer to clear. The current 5.0TA is built taller than the original 5.0 to help with this, and the suspension of both generations of Escape fifth-wheel can be adjusted (or modified) to suit the truck. The tallest pickups can still be an issue, but most pickups work for the 5.0TA, and especially the lighter full-sizes (Ford F-150, Chevrolet/GM 1500, Ram 1500, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan). A stock F-150 is not too tall, although if you go nuts with raised suspension and silly tires it could easily be made too tall.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWanderers View Post
I need to ask if it's possible to pull an Escape 5.0 or 5.0TA with a full size Ford F150 without any special modifications? I have just been "freaked out" to find out that this is an issue with other 5s
We pulled our 5.0 with a 2010 F150 for two years including trips to southern ON, TX, NM, and AZ. We were so confident pulling it with that truck we just traded it for a new 2.7EB and taking it out with the trailer first time on Thursday.

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Old 06-20-2016, 07:59 PM   #10
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I've just found the Fifth Wheel Street site relating information about fifth wheel safety so I was reading around and thought I'd ask about my F150.
The "half ton" page of that site includes this note for the shortest-wheelbase (141 inch) variation of an F-150:
Quote:
* FWS does not recommend this short wheelbase truck for 5th wheel towing and one would be wise not tow a TT too long in length
That's a little alarmist, because it completely ignores the variation in fifth-wheel trailer size. Sure, you probably should not tow a 34-foot 12,000-pound trailer with it, but an Escape 5.0TA is only 21 feet long and half that weight.

I haven't seen anything too bad in this site yet, but one should keep in mind that they are assuming large trailers.

Also, their calculator appears to assume that the pin weight will be 20% of the trailer's total weight; that's fine as a starting assumption, but too high for an Escape 5.0 or 5.0TA. The 2016 specs for the 5.0TA show 600 pounds on the pin for a 3700 pound dry and empty base condition trailer; as you add options and your stuff it doesn't change much so if you loaded it all the way to the maximum allowed weight you would probably still have no more than 15% of the trailer's weight on the hitch.
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:40 PM   #11
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Many of us use an F150. You do have to have enough payload capacity. For myself I figure I need roughly 800-900 for the trailer and the hitch, then add passengers and gear you want in the truck.
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Old 06-21-2016, 12:37 AM   #12
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I need to ask if it's possible to pull an Escape 5.0 or 5.0TA with a full size Ford F150 without any special modifications? I have just been "freaked out" to find out that this is an issue with other 5s


You should have no problem. We did raise our 5.0 and it worked well. 17 mpg towing. F-150 4x4. Ordered new 5.0TA with raised axles. Can't wait.


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Old 06-21-2016, 06:12 AM   #13
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Full size pickup as a tow vehicle

As Bob and others have pointed out, the issue is payload capacity. Unlike a bumper pull, some of the trailer weight rests in the bed. So, just as an example, if your payload capacity is 1000 lbs, and your pin weight is 500-600 lbs, that means you only have 400-500 lbs of capacity left- for all other cargo, including the passengers and you the driver.

So, the extra 400 or 500 lbs of payload capacity in SOME 1/2 ton pickups comes in very handy. Since you asked specifically about the F150, it's payload capacity varies from around 1500 lbs to around 2300 lbs, depending on how it's equipped. Bottom line is it can easily handle a 5.0TA and you'll still have capacity for other things.


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Old 06-21-2016, 06:12 AM   #14
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Our tongue weight on our 5TA is close to 800. - 825 - I think the 20% probably isn't too far off.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:07 AM   #15
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As Bob and others have pointed out, the issue is payload capacity. Unlike a bumper pull, some of the trailer weight rests in the bed. So, just as an example, if your payload capacity is 1000 lbs, and your pin weight is 500-600 lbs, that means you only have 400-500 lbs of capacity left- for all other cargo, including the passengers and you the driver.

So, the extra 400 or 500 lbs of payload capacity in SOME 1/2 ton pickups comes in very handy. Since you asked specifically about the F150, it's payload capacity varies from around 1500 lbs to around 2300 lbs, depending on how it's equipped. Bottom line is it can easily handle a 5.0TA and you'll still have capacity for other things.


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Hi: rbryan4... IMHO for what that's worth the owners manual payload figure includes a driver and full tank of gas. Without either the vehicle is of no use to anyone. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:16 AM   #16
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Hi: rbryan4... IMHO for what that's worth the owners manual payload figure includes a driver and full tank of gas. Without either the vehicle is of no use to anyone. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
I have heard that some pickups do not include driver weight, as that could be from 100 lbs to.... well, lots. But they do include fluid levels at full, which is of course mostly the fuel.

All I know is that with a 460 kg (1,012 lb) dry tongue weight of my temp trailer, there is not one noticeable bit of issue with it. Heck, it doesn't even drop the bed of the truck down very much at all when hitched.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:48 AM   #17
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As of 2010 ,the average American male weighs approx 200 lbs compared to 166 lbs in 1960 . In 2010 the average American women weighed 165 lbs versus approx 120 lbs in 1960.
The vehicle payload standard was 150 Lbs per passenger for years.
Most vehicles sold in the US including pickups when carrying there stated number of passenger would be over their payload capacity.
4 adult males riding in many passenger cars put the vehicle at 20% over its payload capacity . MY POINT ,!! We way underestimate the actual payload / tongue weight we will be carrying when towing so it fits into the limits of the tow vehicle we wish to use. I doubt you could find one Escape 5.0TA with the stated pin weight of 600 lbs or even close to 600 lbs when loaded for travel. If realistic ,real world weight numbers were used , many would soon find that even their 1/2 ton truck is well over its limits. My Ram 1500 has a listed payload of 1430 lbs and towing an Escape 5.0 TA would put me well over my payload limit when minimally loaded for travel.
So why do we continue to get questions like "Is anyone towing an Escape 21 with a VW beatle" ? . All it takes is about 5 minutes with a calculator to figure out if you can tow X with Y , yet these threads continue , mainly because we don't like the calculators answer.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:52 AM   #18
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Not trying to open up Pandora's box here but the service managers from three different Ford dealerships have told me that the payload capacity as listed on the sticker on the driver's door frame are somewhat conservative and not to worry about towing the 5.0TA with my F150 or exceeding the cargo capacity a bit (150-200 lbs common answer). The 5.0TA loaded has a certified scale weight of 4,400 lbs. and a pin weight of 760 lbs. Even with the pin weight, standard 5th wheel hitch, and all the stuff I carry in the F150, I am a few pounds below the listed cargo capacity.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:08 AM   #19
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Is curb weight for pickups calculated differently than cars and SUV's?

Wiki says this about curb weight: Curb weight (US English) or kerb weight (UK English) is the total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment, all necessary operating consumables such as motor oil, transmission oil, coolant, air conditioning refrigerant, and a full tank of fuel, while not loaded with either passengers or cargo.

If it is the same, the curb weight (CW), gross combined weight rating (GCWR) and gross vehicle weight ratings (GVWR) should make accurate capacity calculations possible.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:45 AM   #20
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So why do we continue to get questions like "Is anyone towing an Escape 21 with a VW beatle" ? . All it takes is about 5 minutes with a calculator to figure out if you can tow X with Y , yet these threads continue , mainly because we don't like the calculators answer.
A most cogent remark. Thank you.
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