GMC Hummer EV

[Chama]

Got an email today announcing the new GMC Hummer EV. 1000hp, 11,500 foot lbs of torque, zero to 60 in 3 seconds. That is all well and good but can it tow my E21? Ha ha! Supposed to be widely available in the Fall of 2020. I know nothing more about it than that.

[John in Santa Cruz]

i wonder how many of those 1000HP 0-60 launches it can do on a charge? I bet not many.

1000HP is 750,000 watts with perfect 100% efficient energy conversion (which is unobtanium). The longest range Tesla has a 100KW*Hour battery, so 8 minutes of 1000 HP would flatten that battery.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Chama

Got an email today announcing the new GMC Hummer EV. 1000hp, 11,500 foot lbs of torque, zero to 60 in 3 seconds. That is all well and good but can it tow my E21? Ha ha! Supposed to be widely available in the Fall of 2020. I know nothing more about it than that.

There's no big surprise in those numbers; they're what it takes to get attention in the EV world now. Keep in mind that the torque value is torque where it matters (at the wheels), not at the motor output, so what looks like a surprisingly high number isn't really so exceptional. A Ford F-150 Raptor engine can put 510 lb-ft of torque into the transmission, so more than 2395 lb-ft out (multiplied by 4.6957 in first gear, and also multiplied by the torque converter); multiply that by the 3.55:1 final drive to get over 8500 lb-ft.

It will tow fine, as will the Rivian-based Lincoln truck from Ford, whatever Ford decides to build as an electric F-150, and whatever Tesla actually builds as a pickup. None of them will have great range while towing.

Given that all the public has seen so far is a grill and headlights, it seems unlikely to me that it is so close to regular production that it will be widely available in a few months. They may mean available to order, everywhere.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

i wonder how many of those 1000HP 0-60 launches it can do on a charge? I bet not many.

I agree - not a lot. Also, not a lot in quick succession, regardless of how much charge is left.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

1000HP is 750,000 watts with perfect 100% efficient energy conversion (which is unobtanium). The longest range Tesla has a 100KW*Hour battery, so 8 minutes of 1000 HP would flatten that battery.

I would assume something between 80% and 90% efficiency, overall (motor and controller), so about 930 kW. Also, that's only from the speed at which the controller and motor system transition from constant torque to constant power; below that, power is proportional to speed... and efficiency gets significantly lower.

Since full power will only be used for a few seconds at a time (to accelerate), the eight-minute endurance is not important. It's also unrealistic, since excessive temperatures would trigger a power reduction long before eight minutes. Most high-performance street EVs can't do a two one-minute laps of a race track (which is only full power about half the time) before backing off the power. (The Porsche Taycan will likely be an exception to this.)

The battery capacity will likely be far more than 100 kWh, at least in the fully-equipped variant. Rivian is going for a choice of 105, 135, or 180 kWh (so the smallest Rivian battery is larger than the largest Tesla car battery), which seems reasonable to me for a vehicle which has more mass and drag than a Tesla sedan, and is expected to do more work.


I find the choice of Hummer branding interesting: GM owns the Hummer name and associated branding (including the grill with seven vertical slots, just like Jeep), and instead of using for a new vehicle brand it is using it for a single model within the GMC brand. Perhaps the combination of the association of Hummer with size and strength and the idea of humming like an electric motor made an electric truck the right place to use the brand.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Perhaps the combination of the association of Hummer with size and strength and the idea of humming like an electric motor made an electric truck the right place to use the brand.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Oldtimer]

Lol gbaglo that reminds me of the old rotary engine Mazda commercials the RX 2,3, and 4

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Lol gbaglo that reminds me of the old rotary engine Mazda commercials the RX 2,3, and 4

The Wankel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine

[Oldtimer]

Those were fun engines to rebuild 2s and 3s 18 bolts fell apart change out all the O rings change the apex tips a little resurfacing on the facings bolt back together n you were hmm mmmmmmm along again the 4s were 21 bolts if my 1 working brain cell serves me right

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I find the choice of Hummer branding interesting: GM owns the Hummer name and associated branding....

of course, 'hummer' has another meaning in slang...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Lol gbaglo that reminds me of the old rotary engine Mazda commercials the RX 2,3, and 4

It is reminiscent of the commercials, but I never considered the Wankel rotary engine sound a "hum"; a "wail" would be closer. But then, I associate them with race and rally cars, and a Saturday afternoon in the 1970's being driven around in one by a friend who considered the gas pedal to be an all-or-nothing device.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

of course, 'hummer' has another meaning in slang...

I'm sure it does, and not just "hummingbird". I don't think I want to know what the other meanings might be. I'm sure that GM marketing people have considered all of them.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Chama

Got an email today announcing the new GMC Hummer EV.
...
Supposed to be widely available in the Fall of 2020.

Was that timing in the e-mail, and if so was it e-mail from GM (not a dealership)? It's not anywhere in the GM press release, and the GMC Hummer EV website says "Initial availability Fall 2021". I'll assume "2020" was a typo or a misunderstanding.

Next year (not this year) makes far more sense. Every vehicle has been seen in testing (even if only disguised) at least several months before production starts, and this one is a complete ghost. The only announced scheduled events are the debut commercial during the Superbowl, and that it will be "revealed" on May 20 of this year. The rebuilding of the Detroit Hamtramck plant (which will be building it) was only announced this week, and the plant won't be building vehicles until late 2021.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The Wankel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine

I have been interested by this engine design since it first appeared in Mazdas. I think Wankel gets too much credit, and (as the article explains) the design which has been actually used should be credited to Paschke, or at least as a Wankel-Paschke.

Many companies tried this engine design. Curtis-Wright built it for aircraft (yes, that Wright family's company). There have been diesels, and huge models for military vehicles (from John Deere) and industrial use (such as from Ingersoll-Rand). Various companies built these engines for karts, ultralight aircraft, drones, lawnmowers, and chainsaws. OMC and Sachs built them for snowmobiles; Suzuki and Norton built them for motorcycles.

General Motors paid US$50M (back when that was a lot of money) for the rights to build what they called the General Motors Rotary Combustion Engine, and developed it right up to a production design, but gave up on it. There could have been a gasoline hummer Hummer...

GM turns out to have made the right call, even if it did ruin the Monza and stick AMC with no good engine for the Pacer: by the time Mazda built their last rotary model (the RX-8) it was pretty clear that conventional reciprocating-piston technology simply worked better, despite higher complexity (at least by parts count).

Mazda keeps promising to bring this engine back, but I think that's mostly to keep the attention of a niche group of enthusiasts; I doubt they'll ever build another one. The Wikipedia article mentions

In October 2018 Mazda confirmed a rotary engine will be in a hybrid car ready for sale in 2020.

but I'll note that it is now 2020 and there is no such vehicle in sight, even as a pre-production teaser. Electric powertrains [there's my segue back to the thread subject ] will eventually replace gasoline engines (although it will take decades), and in the meantime those engines need to be cleaner and more efficient (like Mazda's SkyActiv-X), two characteristics which have always been problems for the Wankel-Paschke-Mazda rotary.

[Defenestrator]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

i wonder how many of those 1000HP 0-60 launches it can do on a charge? I bet not many.

1000HP is 750,000 watts with perfect 100% efficient energy conversion (which is unobtanium). The longest range Tesla has a 100KW*Hour battery, so 8 minutes of 1000 HP would flatten that battery.

Based on the power output and assuming the Hummer being a big heavy vehicle will have a big heavy battery, I'd guess closer to 150KWh for the battery. By your math, that's about 240 launches (maybe 200ish including losses). I don't think I'd want to do 200+ launches in a row in a gas car either.. the chances of something catching on fire at that point are pretty high.

The horsepower is almost certainly mostly a product of the range. That is, in order to hit the range they wanted on something that's basically a multi-ton brick they needed a fairly large battery. A large battery means it's capable of a high power output, so they might as well size the inverter and motors to match.

[Chama]

Noticed this morning that the Hummer EV will be featured in a Superbowl ad this Sunday. GM is not going cheap with the product intro.

[John in Santa Cruz]

the superbowl ads are all on youtube.... they are teasers, the actual vehicle will be unveiled in May...