Is 5.0 Lift kit necessary

[Steveanson]

hello - we are in the final build days for our 5.0, and I'm still undecided about the necessity of ordering the lift kit. Our Ram 4x4 is 55.5" high at the tailgate, diminishing slightly moving forward. Escape says the lift is necessary with a side rail over 56". I would prefer not to order the lift as the 5.0 would just fit under our barn door. (3" clearance) Demco Recon rail hitch with max height from bed at 17". It is 21" from bed deck to top of bed rail.

My question is, will there be enough safe TV bed rail clearance? I don't mind buying the lift, but sure don't want to get a new barn door.

Thanks for any input, Matt

[Centex]

Matt, I've been looking at the Demco Recon for my application, so had the spreadsheet already setup and plugged-in your data just for grins.

Before considering bed-rail clearances I wanted to check for 'level-towing' requirements, so that's what this chart addresses. It goes directly to the first (IMO) issue for consideration of configuration.

Please NOTE - this chart is based on the Demco Recon Gooseneck version where the spec height adjustment for that hitch is above the base = bed floor. If you use the rail-mounted version I'm not sure if the adjustment range is specified from the top-of-rails or bed floor; IF the former, the results will be different by the ht of the rails.

All just to offer for your consideration that the 'level-towing factor' may drive your decision about 'Lift / No-Lift' (and Pinbox Configuration) and then you're still left with rail-clearance considerations on top of that.

(reference is made to this ETI 5.0 Towing Compatibility Guideline document)

[Centex]

Matt, more FYI after an email exchange with Kevin Rosenboom, Demco Customer Service Representative:

1) The three Recon height settings of 15.5", 16.75", and 18" are measured from the bottom of the hitch-base.
2) For the gooseball mount version that means those are the distances from the top of the pickup bed corrugation to the hitch plate.
3) For the rail-mount version one must add 1.5" for the rail thickness, making the heights from the top of the pickup bed corrugation to the hitch plate 17", 18.25", or 19.5".

It seems that if indeed your bed-floor (top of corrugations) to ground dimension is 34.5", you'll need the body-lift just to achieve 'near-level' / 'slightly nose-high' towing, and that with the pinbox in it's retracted position. You may have a bit of 'adjustment cushion' depending on how much the bed drops from the load of the trailer.

None of that yet considering the vertical rail-clearances, which actually get a bit worse with the retracted pinbox for any given hitch-height above the bed floor.

[Brian B-P]

In case you were not already aware of it, Escape now provides a document which thoroughly describes the dimensions involved in the hitch configuration for a 5.0, linked to the Escape 5.0 web page:
Towing Compatibility Guidelines

[Centex]

That link provided in Post 2 above

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Centex

That link provided in Post 2 above

Yes, sorry, I had composed that and was putting in more when I realized that you already covered it... and apparently saved the post instead of deleting it.

[Steveanson]

Originally Posted by Centex

Matt, more FYI after an email exchange with Kevin Rosenboom, Demco Customer Service Representative:

1) The three Recon height settings of 15.5", 16.75", and 18" are measured from the bottom of the hitch-base.
2) For the gooseball mount version that means those are the distances from the top of the pickup bed corrugation to the hitch plate.
3) For the rail-mount version one must add 1.5" for the rail thickness, making the heights from the top of the pickup bed corrugation to the hitch plate 17", 18.25", or 19.5".

It seems that if indeed your bed-floor (top of corrugations) to ground dimension is 34.5", you'll need the body-lift just to achieve 'near-level' / 'slightly nose-high' towing, and that with the pinbox in it's retracted position. You may have a bit of 'adjustment cushion' depending on how much the bed drops from the load of the trailer.

None of that yet considering the vertical rail-clearances, which actually get a bit worse with the retracted pinbox for any given hitch-height above the bed floor.

Alan, thank you so much for doing my homework for me. I will remeasure tomorrow, but I suspect the measurements will be the same. I had planned on a rail mount hitch, but it looks as tho I'll have to rethink that and go with the gooseneck. Maybe with the trailer weight in the bed I can have a near level tow.


Brian, thank you for assisting in this, for me, confusing hitch detail.
Matt

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Steveanson

.... this, for me, confusing hitch detail.

Let's see if these edited drawings, simplifying the ETI figures to only the critical vertical dimensions and including the numbers for the Body-Lift Option in Green, help clarify the vertical clearance 'calculation' for you.

NOTE that the 'Rail Clearances' are different with / without the body-lift but the Pinbox configuration makes no difference insofar as Rail Clearance as long as the trailer is 'near level'.

NOTE that the Pinbox configuration only bears on the height of the hitch assembly you can fit between your box floor and the trailer bearing plate as long as the trailer is 'near level' (that may compel you to look for different hitches with different base-to-top height adjustment ranges).

NOTE that most folks suggest your trailer can be slightly 'nose-high' but should not be 'nose-below level' for best towing.

NOTE that ideal would be to use rail-height and bed-floor-height measurements with the weight of the trailer on the truck for these 'calculations' (i.e. assume a bit of 'sag' for the truck with the load of the trailer) unless you have some sort of load-height-correcting system like airbags.

NOTE that if your barn-door clearance conflict is only an inch or so, you might get by with the trick of deflating tires a bit to just to carefully squeeze it in the barn (and put a big sign on the barn door reminding to deflate / re-inflate when entering / exiting!)

Hope that helps, have fun!
(in the spirit of "it's better to teach a person to fish than to give 'em a sandwich", or how ever that adage goes )

[Steveanson]

I'm certain all of this information should be helpful for me to clarify the hitch height/location/pinbox configuration, and I suspect eventually it will become a bit more clear. I suspect the extended pinbox is what I'll need. Just now however, I think a visual will be helpful for me. I now have all the trailer/pinbox measurements, so out with the graft paper for my visual.



My neighbor runs our local Ace hardware, and he's willing to lower a pallet with 600 lbs of bagged cement mix on my truck bed to measure the squat. Once I have this measurement, I'll be better equipped to make a decision. Honestly, I had not even considered a level trailer hook-up, and thank Alan and Brian for bringing this basic requirement to my attention.
Matt


Edit: Next, is where to place the hitch in a 5'7". As I plan to have the hitch installed, I hope with the measurements I give them, they'll place it in the correct location.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Steveanson

Edit: Next, is where to place the hitch in a 5'7". As I plan to have the hitch installed, I hope with the measurements I give them, they'll place it in the correct location.

Matt, the fore-to-aft location of either bed-rails or underbed gooseneck mounts is usually dictated by the manufacturer of the 'kit' you choose and the installer, if they adhere to the manufacture's instructions (highly recommended of course) has no-say in the matter.

Here's the background ....
Those rail (or gooseneck) installation 'kits' are vehicle-specific and are designed to utilize existing holes in the vehicle's frame (to avoid issues with affecting the integrity of the vehicle frame). So, the fixed dimensions of all of the pieces in those kits, from the parts that bolt to the vehicle frame to the rails that bolt thru the bed, dictates the location of the rails.

While all such kits are designed to locate the attached hitch more-or-less over the rear axle centerline, they can (and do) vary by a few inches front-to-back depending on the manufacturer's design (I've found kit differences in the range of 'dead-center' to +/- ~4" from axle centerline in my research for my truck).

E-trailer can be a helpful starting point, IMO. Enter your vehicle data and then search for 'rail mount kit' to get directed to the different brand kits made for your truck. Then you can look at the (usually) linked installation instructions for each item to (usually) find details on where that kit locates the installed assembly in the bed. Don't hesitate to contact the kit manufacturer directly if you have any doubts or questions - most are quite responsive and helpful as I found with Kevin Rosenboom at Demco just by using their website's 'contact' form.

Yeah, nothing's easy it seems, it takes a bit of legwork and attention to detail to find the overall 'best' components for any given application, but the effort can pay-back especially when 'inches matter'.

OR, if you're lucky, you might find someone with a vehicle that exactly matches yours and tows a 5.0TA who can share the exact components from rail-kit to hitch that works well for them. But be careful in this, failure to ensure exact apples-to-apples comparison may lead to unwelcome surprises.

Remember, fore-to-aft location affects not only cab-clearance when turning but also pinbox clearance vs the closed tailgate (critical when towing) and trailer clearance vs the open tailgate (relates to convenience when in the act of hooking-up and bed access when hitched); there's frequently some degree of balancing / compromising all those criteria, especially with short-bed trucks, when making a selection.

Hope that helps, keep that graph-paper handy, good luck and have fun!