Jeep Cherokee

[Ladybird]

Hi,

Our Jeep Cherokee is rated for towing 4500 (factor installed tow package). We are interested in the 17B but are not sure if it’s a good idea safety wise.... I was reading that we would want to not go above 80% of 4500 but then the 17B is too heavy? Escape said it wasn’t an issue. Please advise...
(Thanks)

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Ladybird

Hi,

Our Jeep Cherokee is rated for towing 4500 (factor installed tow package). We are interested in the 17B but are not sure if it’s a good idea safety wise.... I was reading that we would want to not go above 80% of 4500 but then the 17B is too heavy? Escape said it wasn’t an issue. Please advise...
(Thanks)

Jessica,
The new 17B dry weight is 2640 lbs. Then you add the weight of all your gear: E.G.: filled propane tanks (18 lb/tank), food, clothes, pots & pans, dishes, camp table, outdoor stove or grill, books, games, telescope, musical instruments, etc. to get to actual towing weight.

In our case, with our 17, it's about 600 lbs. that we add.


4500 lb x 80% = 3600 lbs. , so you would have to add 940 lbs. to get to that theoretical do-not-exceed 80% weight. I seriously doubt that you will get close to even 800 lbs. of added weight in an Escape 17. IMHO, you're good to go!


According to the VIN and registration placard on the outside front of our trailer, dry weight includes a full fresh water tank, and empty waste tanks.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Jessica,
The new 17B dry weight is 2640 lbs. Then you add the weight of all your gear: E.G.: filled propane tanks (18 lb/tank), food, clothes, pots & pans, dishes, camp table, outdoor stove or grill, books, games, telescope, musical instruments, etc. to get to actual towing weight.

In our case, with our 17, it's about 600 lbs. that we add.


4500 lb x 80% = 3600 lbs. , so you would have to add 940 lbs. to get to that theoretical do-not-exceed 80% weight. I seriously doubt that you will get close to even 800 lbs. of added weight in an Escape 17. IMHO, you're good to go!

According to the VIN and registration placard on the outside front of our trailer, dry weight includes a full fresh water tank, and empty waste tanks.

Bear in mind the 2640# dry weight is without options. For example if you get A/C and reinforced walls you are over 200# right there. Depending on how you option out the trailer and pack I don’t think hitting the 3600# mark is inconceivable. That said the GVWR is 4000# and the OP’s tow vehicle capacity is 4500# so should be fine. Let’s not forget the 17 was designed to be pulled by SUV’s.

[Brian B-P]

I see no value in some arbitrary de-rating factor, such as 80%. Just make sure that the loaded rig meets all of the vehicles limits rather than just the trailer weight limit, and you'll be fine. Those limits include the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, Gross Combination Weight Rating, Gross Axle Weight Ratings for the front and rear axles, and the hitch weight limit. With passengers and cargo in the Cherokee, plus an equipped and loaded Escape 17, some of those limits might be exceeded.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Those limits include the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, Gross Vehicle Weight Rating...

Good points Brian. I assume one of these was supposed to be Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Good points Brian. I assume one of these was supposed to be Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR).

Yes, indeed.

Thanks Dave - I have fixed it.

[Ladybird]

Thank you so much for taking the time to go through this. I didn’t realize it included a full fresh water tank either.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Jessica,
The new 17B dry weight is 2640 lbs. Then you add the weight of all your gear: E.G.: filled propane tanks (18 lb/tank), food, clothes, pots & pans, dishes, camp table, outdoor stove or grill, books, games, telescope, musical instruments, etc. to get to actual towing weight.

In our case, with our 17, it's about 600 lbs. that we add.


4500 lb x 80% = 3600 lbs. , so you would have to add 940 lbs. to get to that theoretical do-not-exceed 80% weight. I seriously doubt that you will get close to even 800 lbs. of added weight in an Escape 17. IMHO, you're good to go!


According to the VIN and registration placard on the outside front of our trailer, dry weight includes a full fresh water tank, and empty waste tanks.

[Ladybird]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Bear in mind the 2640# dry weight is without options. For example if you get A/C and reinforced walls you are over 200# right there. Depending on how you option out the trailer and pack I don’t think hitting the 3600# mark is inconceivable. That said the GVWR is 4000# and the OP’s tow vehicle capacity is 4500# so should be fine. Let’s not forget the 17 was designed to be pulled by SUV’s.

Thank you, I was thinking we didn’t need A/C, just turn the fan on and open a window for cross breeze... but was thinking we should add heat... need to look into the extra weight options in more detail then. Great point!

[Ladybird]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I see no value in some arbitrary de-rating factor, such as 80%. Just make sure that the loaded rig meets all of the vehicles limits rather than just the trailer weight limit, and you'll be fine. Those limits include the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, Gross Combination Weight Rating, Gross Axle Weight Ratings for the front and rear axles, and the hitch weight limit. With passengers and cargo in the Cherokee, plus an equipped and loaded Escape 17, some of those limits might be exceeded.

Will do, thanks. I figured the 80% made sense from a stand point of if you accidentally load up too much, you’ve got a bit of room.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

According to the VIN and registration placard on the outside front of our trailer, dry weight includes a full fresh water tank, and empty waste tanks.

Originally Posted by Ladybird

I didn’t realize it included a full fresh water tank either.

Jessica, you did not realize this because it is not true: dry weight does not include the weight of any water.

Dry weight is literally dry; it does not include the weight of a full fresh water tank, or any other fluids. What Don is reading and misinterpreting is that the cargo carrying capacity of the trailer is calculated by subtracting the wet (with full fresh water tank and empty waste tanks) weight from the allowed Gross Vehicle Weight rating.

With a base (no options) dry weight of 2640 pounds and a 26 US gallon fresh water tank, and a 4,000 pound GVWR, the cargo carrying capacity of a 17B should be

4,000 lb (GVWR) - (2640 lb (dry) + 167 lb (20 US gal of water in tank) + 50 lb (6 US gal of water in heater) = 1143 pounds
... less the weight of any options.

I don't know what the placard actually says on current trailers, but here's an example from an Escape 15: it explains the basis for the cargo carrying capacity calculation, and does not list or mention dry weight:


I assumed that tank capacities are in US gallons; since Escape refuses to clearly list these specifications, it's only a guess (they could be Imperial gallons).

Don's description should be

The new 17B dry weight is 2640 lbs. Then you add the weight of all your gear: E.G.: filled propane tanks (18 lb per empty tank plus 20 lb of propane per tank), food, clothes, pots & pans, dishes, camp table, outdoor stove or grill, books, games, telescope, musical instruments, and any water carried in the tanks and water heater etc. to get to actual towing weight.
...
According to the VIN and registration placard on the outside front of our trailer, cargo capacity is calculated based on dry weight of the trailer with options plus a full fresh water tank and water heater (and empty waste tanks).

We typically had 600 pounds of stuff (including water) in our trailer, beyond the dry weight. Escape used to publish a guide to typical as-towed weights, which assumed something like 1,000 pounds of fluids and stuff (depending on trailer size); however, i don't see than any more and in the current FAQ they only appear to list the GVWR as a guide to what your tow vehicle needs to handle.


At the risk of causing more confusion, here's a previous thread sorting through the weight and cargo capacity issue for the 15-foot model: Actual Weight 15B

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ladybird

Will do, thanks. I figured the 80% made sense from a stand point of if you accidentally load up too much, you’ve got a bit of room.

If you load the trailer 20% over the expected weight, that's several hundred pounds of extra cargo - it doesn't make sense to me to allow for that.

It also doesn't make sense to me to make such an allowance a fraction (percentage) of the towing vehicle's capacity, because a higher-capacity vehicle doesn't cause your stuff to get heaver. If you want to allow for error (which seems prudent to me ) then just add a couple hundred pounds (or whatever seems reasonable to you) to the expected weight of the trailer (including options, fluids, and your stuff) in planning for what the Jeep has to tow. At the most extreme, you can just allow for the trailer to be loaded right up to its Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (4,000 pounds for the 17-foot), since you should never exceed that and it allows for a lot of your stuff (half a ton).

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Bear in mind the 2640# dry weight is without options.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

With a base (no options) dry weight of 2640 pounds and a 26 US gallon fresh water tank, and a 4,000 pound GVWR, the cargo carrying capacity of a 17B should be

4,000 lb (GVWR) - (2640 lb (dry) + 167 lb (20 US gal of water in tank) + 50 lb (6 US gal of water in heater) = 1143 pounds... less the weight of any options.

Just to further the point of option weight adding up this is from the build sheet of a 2020 19' just listed for sale. 600# in options.