Let's be careful in 2019

[Brian B-P]

That particular setup of the treadmill model is done to exaggerate the effect of front-to-rear mass distribution. It makes the point that was intended, but entirely misses most of the dynamic effects of loading and trailer geometry. Too bad, since it's designed to show everything - the axle position is adjustable, both load positions are adjustable, and others have used it to show the reduction of stability due to masses too far from the middle, a short tongue length, and excessive speed.
Bailey of Bristol: Product Development – University of Bath Caravan Stability Research

Caravan Stability Studies

[Jeremy Kessenich]

As an extension of this, while I 100% agree that proper weight distribution is important, there are safety products made by Al-Ko overseas that some day might make their way here. AL-KO Swivel Ring Couplings

and here is a video on an automatic brake controller in the trailer to activate the brakes if fishtailing occurs. I understand they are demonstrating it on a surge brake set up but the idea could be adapted on electric brakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcd-JAnSHL0

[Hilola]

Maybe it was just me but I didn't see any 5th-wheels in the video.

[abaum]

Originally Posted by Hilola

Maybe it was just me but I didn't see any 5th-wheels in the video.

I have seen some 5th wheel (Semi, not camper) accidents by virtue of a previous job highlighting just what 5th wheels are capable of. They are astonishing.

A good semi 5th wheel can fully support the weight of the towing vehicle without separating.

Unsure the degree to which that would hold true for a good truck-bed mounted unit

[CADreamin]

And then you have those 'weird accidents'. While heading to a rally last October, we passed a new, rather long (~30') trailer sitting in the slow lane of the freeway with it's tongue firmly planted into the asphalt. Likewise, the tow vehicle, a decent sized newer pickup sat with it's back end/bumper still attached to the trailer (but barely to the truck) and no WDH that I could see. The driver just stood there, shaking his head and laughing.

[fgunderson]

[I have been towing a 17b classic for bout 5 years now with a 1/2 ton dodge p/u with a pro w/d hitch mostly in bc/yukon and alaska and have occasionally experienced sudden unexpected turbulence when being passed by large tractor/trailer rigs such as log trucks at highway speeds...can be jarring but seems to smooth-out fairly quickly without sudden steering inputs......on a related note...I travel I 40 in Arizona frequently on vacation and as a lot of you folks snowbird there I wonder how fast you feel comfortable towing your rigs on this highway that can have posted limits of 75 mph...I would like to try towing down there but not sure about towing at near these speeds with my unit... fgunderson/Wrangell,alaska

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Hilola

Maybe it was just me but I didn't see any 5th-wheels in the video.

No, it's no just you.

There are multiple reasons for this:

• there are far more conventional non-commercial trailers than fifth-wheel non-commercial trailers
• fifth-wheel trailers normally run higher tongue/pin weight, which (if all else is equal) means higher stability
• the fifth-wheel hitch (or ball hitch in the same place) is near the tow vehicle axle, which is more stable (for the same trailer weight distribution, regardless of hitch type)

There are also no medium-duty trucks in the video (as I recall)... they're all relatively soft passenger vehicles and light pickups, which do not control the hitch as rigidly as typical commercial vehicles. A fifth-wheel isn't needed for a solidly stable tow.

Originally Posted by abaum

A good semi 5th wheel can fully support the weight of the towing vehicle without separating.

Unsure the degree to which that would hold true for a good truck-bed mounted unit

Even ordinary ball hitches seem quite capable of staying attached in severe crashes, and it seems likely to me that fifth-wheels will hold together as the truck and trailer flop around.

The SAE J684 standard for hitches requires that the hitch be able to withstand the entire weight of the trailer in the fore-aft direction (so you could hang the tug by the front bumper and the trailer could hang below it on the hitch if you didn't jostle anything) and half the weight of the trailer in the vertical and lateral directions. The hitch might tear off of the tug and the coupler might tear off of the trailer, but hitch parts should all survive intact. I haven't read SAE J2638 - for "Fifth Wheel and Gooseneck Attachment Performance Up to 13608/kg (30000/lb) Trailer Weight" - but it's probably similar.

The cheapest and weakest readily available fifth-wheel hitch is designed for a much heavier trailer than an Escape 5.0TA, so it seems unlikely that any fifth-wheel hitch (or the similarly rated Andersen Ultimate) would be the weak link if someone lost control of their 5.0 or 5.0TA.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kessenich

... there are safety products made by Al-Ko overseas that some day might make their way here. AL-KO Swivel Ring Couplings

There's nothing anti-sway about the ring couplers, but the AKS-series couplers are the anti-sway design which is very common in Europe. The coupler clamps onto the ball with friction pads, providing friction to damp sway as with most anti-sway devices, but without the free play of the bar-style sometimes devices used here.

This system depends on the ball not rotating, so it works with Euro-style towballs, but not with our stud-mounted balls. That website is from Australia, where they use an interesting mix of Euro-style and North American style hardware, including our style of ball mounting... so they have a special non-rotating ball mounting adapter. I hadn't seen that adapter before; it would make the AL-KO AKS and similar couplers of other brands usable here... if only they came in our sizes rather than just 50 mm.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kessenich

... and here is a video on an automatic brake controller in the trailer to activate the brakes if fishtailing occurs. I understand they are demonstrating it on a surge brake set up but the idea could be adapted on electric brakes.

It's actually easier with electric brakes, and there are several systems which do this. Some apply the brakes together, others (which make much more sense to me) apply one side at a time (coordinated with the sway) but that requires a bit of re-wiring on the trailer. These came up in an earlier discussion:
Trailer Sway Control post #11

[padlin]

Originally Posted by fgunderson

I travel I 40 in Arizona frequently on vacation and as a lot of you folks snowbird there I wonder how fast you feel comfortable towing your rigs on this highway that can have posted limits of 75 mph...I would like to try towing down there but not sure about towing at near these speeds with my unit... fgunderson/Wrangell,alaska

We've traveled I-40 cross country a few times in the last few years with the 5.0TA. Might just be the difference between a fifth wheel and a bumper pull but I have no problem on that highway. Trucks pass me, I pass them, no big deal. Sure I get a little turbulence once in a while but it doesn't bother me.

I drive pretty close to the speed limit, I'm more uncomfortable going too slow for the flow of traffic, at least at speeds like you mention. The areas/states with 85 are another matter, there I stick in the 70's.

[Hilola]

Originally Posted by fgunderson

[I have been towing a 17b classic for bout 5 years now with a 1/2 ton dodge p/u with a pro w/d hitch mostly in bc/yukon and alaska and have occasionally experienced sudden unexpected turbulence when being passed by large tractor/trailer rigs such as log trucks at highway speeds...can be jarring but seems to smooth-out fairly quickly without sudden steering inputs......on a related note...I travel I 40 in Arizona frequently on vacation and as a lot of you folks snowbird there I wonder how fast you feel comfortable towing your rigs on this highway that can have posted limits of 75 mph...I would like to try towing down there but not sure about towing at near these speeds with my unit... fgunderson/Wrangell,alaska

Curious as to whether you use a weight distribution hitch setup?

[Mike Lewis]

I tow at 60 mph unless it's clear to me that I am impeding traffic on a two-lane road and no one can pass me. Then I'll go a little faster.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

The reminder that I can trigger my trailer's brakes with the controller is greatly appreciated. I hope I remember this when the time comes.

Yeah, I know. Our first instinct, from many years of driving motor vehicles, is to hit those brakes. I don't know if I'll remember to use the brake controller.


Many years ago we were pulling our enclosed trailer and it probably wasn't loaded correctly. We started swaying like crazy. I know if I was driving I wouldn't have been able to control it. Dirk did and I'm forever grateful that he did. I just shut my eyes and tried very hard not to scream. Which he was very grateful for that I didn't scream.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

The vast majority of these crashes, if not all of them, could have been easily avoided by towing at a lower speed - a WAY lower speed. Why some people think towing is a speed competition is beyond my comprehension.

I'm constantly passed by guys (yep, all male drivers) in big ass trucks pulling big ass trailers whipping down the road. It's way beyond my understanding why they do this.


And then there's the few trailers/motorhomes I've seen with a big sign or decals on the back stating 55 is the maximum speed for them. And they're going along at 55. (Male drivers again, which is what I see for the vast majority of RVs on the road.) I've thought about adding something like that to the back of my trailer.

[Greg A]

A good way to remember that the brake lever is there and to remember to use it is to practice. Go over to a big parking lot and drive around and practice throwing the brake lever and feel how the trailer responds.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by fgunderson

on a related note...I travel I 40 in Arizona frequently on vacation and as a lot of you folks snowbird there I wonder how fast you feel comfortable towing your rigs on this highway that can have posted limits of 75 mph...I would like to try towing down there but not sure about towing at near these speeds with my unit... fgunderson/Wrangell,alaska

I went through there early last summer/late spring and I was fine with going way under the speed limits. From what I remember most, if not all, was 2 lanes each direction so there was plenty of room for faster moving vehicles to pass me.


I refuse to drive that fast pulling the trailer as I don't feel comfortable doing so, nor do I think it's safe to do so. I pull at speeds I feel comfortable with and on good highways (in good driving conditions) that's usually around 62 mph. I figure if anyone gets pissed at me they can exclaim "oh figures, it's a woman driver" when they pass me.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by Greg A

A good way to remember that the brake lever is there and to remember to use it is to practice. Go over to a big parking lot and drive around and practice throwing the brake lever and feel how the trailer responds.

Yeah, I know. And I was thinking that very same thing after I posted what I did. Great minds and all that, I guess.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Greg A

A good way to remember that the brake lever is there and to remember to use it is to practice. Go over to a big parking lot and drive around and practice throwing the brake lever and feel how the trailer responds.

Amen. Practice manually engaging your brake controller! In late 2017 I posted about a trailer accident due to sway on a local interstate and the very next day I had my own episode of sway. I believe I was light on the tongue with the way I was loaded. I am very thankful about forum discussions that mentioned easing up on the gas and manually applying the trailer brakes. This calmed the trailer down and saved me from potentially a horrific accident. I learned from this experience and I hope those that read this do too.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...tml#post217221

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Greg A

A good way to remember that the brake lever is there and to remember to use it is to practice. Go over to a big parking lot and drive around and practice throwing the brake lever and feel how the trailer responds.

We don't have anything installed except the ball to hitch . We travel 55-60 the majority of the time . Maybe might hit 65 too. Never had any problem with larger truck and trailers move us around when they pass . Could be our truck is very heavy to trailer and has a 8 ft bed something to do with it . Learned to use brake controller when first towing so hopefully will be second nature if ever needed. Pat

[fgunderson]

[really appreciate the comments on the highway speeds you folks use when towing...makes me feel better about my 55-65 mph comfort zone if I make down to lower 48 states with my 17b...do
hope to make the quartzite gathering some day...yes I use w/d hitch-the pro series escape offered when I bought new in 2015 but no anti-sway bar...works very well to level truck/tow and keep me pointed straight down the highway...also thanks for the reminder about the manual trailer brake on brake controller... I completely forgot about it...will make note to practice using before our next trip thx again...hope all snowbirds make their destinations safely...odd year weather-wise most places...maybe we will see you down the road...saw several escapes and other fg trailers on Alaska highway last summer...we will be back up there in aug...fgunderson/Wrangell,alaska trailer 17b-sia/red graphics

[Jim Bennett]

I usually travel the speed limit, or the speed of traffic, up to a max 110 kph (70 mph). The very odd time, like on an interstate, a wee bit faster, but though I feel no issue safety wise, the fuel economy really starts to suck.

Those folks that regularly drive 80 mph on the freeways that allow it must certainly have a big fuel budget.