looking to save some bucks

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

not familiar with the 'all weather symbol', do you mean, the '3 Peak Mountain Snowflake' used on superior M&S tires?

Yes, that is the symbol I meant. Thanks John

From https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/moun...wflake-symbol/
Recognizing a need for a more up-to-date and helpful measurement of true winter performance, as well as a way to differentiate all-season tires from winter tires, the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) came up with the Mountain/Snowflake symbol for tires. When you see this icon on the sidewall of your tire, you can be assured it meets more stringent winter traction performance requirements and has been rated for “severe snow service”. This includes snowy, slippery roads and low temperature or freezing roads. Most all-season tires do not qualify for the Mountain/Snowflake symbol because the tread rubber in all-season and summer tires become hard at temperatures below 40 F. Only dedicated winter tires, select all-terrain light truck and SUV tires, and some of the latest generation “all-weather tires” meet the traction qualifications for the Mountain/Snowflake symbol’s severe snow service rating. One “all-weather” tire with the Mountain/Snowflake symbol is the Nokian WR G3 tire. The Nokian WR G3 are tires that you can leave on the vehicle all-year round, and still be assured of good traction in winter conditions other than just light snow.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

No ouch. Canadians only get the smaller tank with RWD. That's had zero effect on our usual gas stops.
Ron

Keep in mind that will a smaller tank you are carrying less weight and thus, getting better gas mileage.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Ronn

I have seen a lot of talk about the 36 gallon tank......

I am generally ready to take a break before my gauge gets to 1/4 tank. We don't try to cover a lot of ground in a day and we usually take the scenic route vs interstates so we find plenty of opportunity to get gas. I guess if I would anticipate a route that would give me concern I would bring along a jerrycan.

Ronn makes a valid point for some. I have the 36 gallon tank not because I fear running out of fuel. And even if there were that concern, I am not a fan of jerrycans.

Fuel stations can be congested and have difficult access. The fewer I have to maneuver through the better. And I prefer to take make my rest stops in locations other than service stations regardless of what the fuel gauge reads. It all comes down to personal preferences.

[Randy in Maine]

Keep in mind that these Escape trailers only weigh about 5K pounds, so you are not hitching up to pull the Queen Mary. A small V8 in a half ton truck will be fine for 99% of most everything you do. Common sense helps also. Enjoy the ride.

[Patandlinda]

Glad our truck has 2 tanks equal 36 gal . When one gets to 1/4 switch to other tank until the other gets to 1/4 . Hate to run low especially when not familiar with my surroundings . Pat

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Ronn

Yes, that is the symbol I meant. Thanks John

From https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/moun...wflake-symbol/
Recognizing a need for a more up-to-date and helpful measurement of true winter performance, as well as a way to differentiate all-season tires from winter tires, the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) came up with the Mountain/Snowflake symbol for tires. When you see this icon on the sidewall of your tire, you can be assured it meets more stringent winter traction performance requirements and has been rated for “severe snow service”. This includes snowy, slippery roads and low temperature or freezing roads. Most all-season tires do not qualify for the Mountain/Snowflake symbol because the tread rubber in all-season and summer tires become hard at temperatures below 40 F. Only dedicated winter tires, select all-terrain light truck and SUV tires, and some of the latest generation “all-weather tires” meet the traction qualifications for the Mountain/Snowflake symbol’s severe snow service rating. One “all-weather” tire with the Mountain/Snowflake symbol is the Nokian WR G3 tire. The Nokian WR G3 are tires that you can leave on the vehicle all-year round, and still be assured of good traction in winter conditions other than just light snow.

My Mustang has summer tires, good only to 40 degrees or higher, in fact, the warmer it is the better they grip. But from Dec1 to April1 the car sits in garage, hooked up to a battery tender. Have to decide on new tires and if so should I go the all season route?

[Vermilye]

Well you sure won't be "saving some bucks" but on my 2018 Supercab 3.5 EB with the lowest rated tow package I was able to add the 36 gallon tank for $445.00.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Have to decide on new tires and if so should I go the all season route?

All season tires are "adequate". All weather tires are also "adequate", but more capable in snow. Snow tires are superior. If you already have summer tires, snow tires would be best.

I had Nokian all weather tires on the RAV4. Now have all season tires on the Highlander. My plan is not to drive if it snows.

[Ronn]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

My Mustang has summer tires, good only to 40 degrees or higher, in fact, the warmer it is the better they grip. But from Dec1 to April1 the car sits in garage, hooked up to a battery tender. Have to decide on new tires and if so should I go the all season route?

Jim, it's not your daily driver, you likely don't drive it in bad weather and it's your fun car. I'd keep it that way and replace with the "performance tires" that come with the car unless of course, you are unhappy with them.

[johnnyv]

Thats what i'm talking about ! Thx Jon

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by johnnyv

The 4 wheel drive are on rwd when rolling down the road. Correct ?

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

yes, a conventional 4x4 truck is RWD until you manually engage the 4x4. there's also no center differential on these, so 4x4 mode is NOT suitable for dry pavement, only for snow/ice, and/or dirt roads.

John has described part-time 4WD. There are also some pickups (and lots of SUVs) with more advanced 4WD systems which are usually described as "full time" or "AWD" - they either have a centre differential or only automatically engage the front axle as required, so they are suitable all conditions. In some cases this is found only in the higher trim levels of the pickup line, and in some brands you may not be able to get it at all. In a recent F-150 (I checked 2018), this is called "Automatic 4WD" and indicated by "4A" on the selector knob.

[Mszabokc]

Don’t forget the Power fold tow mirrors, factory tow package, brake controller, blind spot, factory safe😁, 4x4, locking rear end.
Just a couple of extras

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

John has described part-time 4WD. There are also some pickups (and lots of SUVs) with more advanced 4WD systems which are usually described as "full time" or "AWD" - they either have a centre differential or only automatically engage the front axle as required, so they are suitable all conditions. In some cases this is found only in the higher trim levels of the pickup line, and in some brands you may not be able to get it at all. In a recent F-150 (I checked 2018), this is called "Automatic 4WD" and indicated by "4A" on the selector knob.

note that most of those AWD SUVs are in the 'crossover' class, the AWD is front wheel centric, and just engages the rear wheels when a front wheel slips, or they are audi/subaru style full time AWD, which are balanced, but more oriented towards pavement and snow driving than offroading or towing. Only a few truck based SUVs are left, Chevy/GMC Tahoe/Suburban, Ford Expedition, Toyota 4Runner, and so forth, these have conventional 4WD, albeit maybe some are automatic.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

note that most of those AWD SUVs are in the 'crossover' class, the AWD is front wheel centric, and just engages the rear wheels when a front wheel slips, or they are audi/subaru style full time AWD,....

While fair to say it's 'front wheel centric' in level constant-load cruising, the later Honda AWD systems are another that automatically directs torque to the rear wheels on a much more sophisticated basis than just front-wheel slip (as well as offering driver-selectable modes to help with traction in particular situations). It's found in all AWD versions of the Ridgeline pickup, Pilot SUV, and Passport SUV for example.

It's a great 'towing' system even on marginal-traction surfaces as long as one uses the selectable modes appropriately and respects the 5k# gross trailer weight rating common to those vehicles.

[johnnyv]

Cutting it close with the 5k gross wgt.

[johnnyv]

The luxury I have is my vehicle search is starting from scratch.

[elongest]

Just bought a 2020 XLT 4x4 super cab (short rear doors) 6.5' bed and 5.0. I bought it week ago and have 1.5K miles on it already. I get just over 22MPG on the road empty with a camper shell flatland driving and 21 MPG local so far. With the bed of the truck loaded and pulling a loaded 6x12 box trailer I got 13-14 MPG. Ford has the std. (hitch) package and you are limited to 7K tow weight. There are two numbered tow packages which adds the coolers and other towing options, to get the higher tow numbers you have to get the numbered packages. It takes a while to figure out your two rating between the owners manual and ford towing charts. I like the payload numbers but the truck needs a little help with the rear springs. So far so good. After working under the truck observation, big engine and frame and beer can body.
Eddie

[Centex]

Originally Posted by johnnyv

Cutting it close with the 5k gross wgt.

Absolutely agree, just posted about the Honda's in the context of the general AWD discussion.

I prefer more 'weight capacity cushion' than the E21+Honda rig affords, there's frontal-area considerations in-play, too (though I think there may be some here that are towing 21's with the Honda's). I love my Ridgeline but am glad to also have an (albeit older) 5.4L V8 F150 rated at much more GTW for IMO more relaxed towing with the larger trailers.

FWIW my '05 F150 Supercab 5.4L w/6.5' box is RWD; only has old-school "Traction Lok" (limited-slip differential, 3.73:1 ratio). It's served me well towing lots more than the Casita (gooseneck hay and utility loads well over 5k#). Sure, it takes some judgement to not get in a jam on really loose / muddy surfaces but IMO the main limit is much more a function of the tires I prefer for 90% street-use than the drivetrain.

It's a great TV for my habits, have no regrets about it being RWD, looking forward to many happy miles with the 5.0TA, YMMV.

[DWM3]

Tow vehicles are a never-ending discussion since there are as many right answers as there are owners. You have to decide what's most important to you and go from there. For us it was:

• Tow and payload capacity
• Wheelbase
• Hight torque
• Turbocharged engine (makes a big difference at high altitude)
• Comfort and space for the dog
• Fuel economy
• Mid-size (strong preference from my wife)

We looked at a lot of vehicles before coming to the above criteria. The end result was a GMC Canyon crew cab long wheelbase turbo diesel with full tow package. (I would have gone with a full-size F150). I've never owned a GMC and never owned a diesel. But in the end it was the only choice that met the criteria. It didn't hurt that we got US$7,000 off when sales tanked because of Covid.

Don

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

note that most of those AWD SUVs are in the 'crossover' class, the AWD is front wheel centric, and just engages the rear wheels when a front wheel slips, or they are audi/subaru style full time AWD, which are balanced, but more oriented towards pavement and snow driving than offroading or towing. Only a few truck based SUVs are left, Chevy/GMC Tahoe/Suburban, Ford Expedition, Toyota 4Runner, and so forth, these have conventional 4WD, albeit maybe some are automatic.

While "crossovers" commonly use AWD systems which always drive the front wheels and actively control drive to the rear, what I specifically described was the centre differential equipped and rear-biased automatic systems used in those few truck-based SUVs and in pickup trucks (such as the F-150, but also including GM full-size and mid-size trucks, GM full-size truck-based SUVs, Toyota body-on-frame SUVs, etc).

Perhaps "audi/subaru style full time AWD" meant centre differential systems - those are excellent in any scenario (although they need centre differential slip limiting or locking off-road), but are getting rare because a controlled clutch drive to one axle is now cheaper to build and very effective.

Subaru's systems are no different from anyone else: I think they still have some in manual-transmission vehicles with a centre differential (so driving all wheels all the time without requiring active control), but mostly (particularly in automatics) they drive the front all of the time and actively control rear drive with a clutch. The days of Subaru being special in the AWD world are long gone.