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Old 11-10-2023, 11:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
On 'passenger car' tires, SL is standard load, XL is extra load. LT as a prefix means a light truck tire, and those come in load ranges B, C, D, E. The actual difference in the tires is the max inflation pressure, as heavier loads require more air pressure, you should stick with the air pressure recommended by the vehicle maker for the size tire you're running. For example, my Expedition, with 275/65R18, specifies 35 PSI on all 4, and I will indeed run 35 PSI even if I end up with LT range "E" tires on it which have a max pressure of 80 PSI instead of the factory tires, which are max 50 PSI.
So this goes against the guidance I received when I mounted LT KO2s on my 4X4 Nissan Frontier a couple of years ago. The OEM recommended 35psi but when I installed the LTs (10ply), the tire shop recommended 45psi. They even printed an addendum sticker to place in the door jam next to the OEM sticker.
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Old 11-10-2023, 12:24 PM   #22
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offroad, you can run those tires as soft as 5 PSI if you have bead locks, or 10-15 psi without, just don't go over 30 or so until you pump them back up. higher pressure than needed just makes for a harsher ride.
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Old 11-10-2023, 05:10 PM   #23
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If I remember correctly, they told me the higher PSI was to prevent heat build up since the tires were 10ply. They didn't mention anything about load capacity or breaking the bead.
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Old 11-10-2023, 05:46 PM   #24
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I doubt they are actually 10 ply, even the load range "E" KO2's on my F250 diesel weren't actually 10 ply, thats an old rating system from the days of bias ply tires. yes, on the f250, I had to run 70 PSI on the rear, but that truck had a 9000 lb GVWR.
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Old 11-10-2023, 08:05 PM   #25
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I doubt they are actually 10 ply, even the load range "E" KO2's on my F250 diesel weren't actually 10 ply, thats an old rating system from the days of bias ply tires. yes, on the f250, I had to run 70 PSI on the rear, but that truck had a 9000 lb GVWR.
Yep. You are right. I dug out the receipt and looked up the tires and they had 10 ply rating, they were not 10 ply, Load range E.

Not sure if I will go to LT tires once my OEM Michelins wear out, but good info to know.
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Old 11-11-2023, 12:09 PM   #26
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I wasted a bunch of time yesterday evening browsing among various car-forum discussions of tires, looking for those who were actually towing trailers. Came across two complaints about the Michelin Defender M/S tires: weaker sidewalls can make them a little 'squirrelly' when towing; and some showed 'dry rot' after a few years.

Then I went back to Tire Rack and looked at the Continental Terrain/Contact H/T tires. TR rates them higher than the high-rated Michelin Defender M/S for wet and dry stopping, and just about as good for everything else (but TR hasn't tested the latest version of the Michelin Defenders, the M/S2). The Contis are maybe $20-40 cheaper than the Michs per tire.

So now I'm wondering. Both the Michelin Defender M/S2 and the Continental Terrain/Contact H/T come in Load Range 116 and 123 flavors. The 123s are heavier, and presumably have tougher sidewalls, but may be overkill for towing an Escape 21C (with Fastway E2 WD hitch—what difference does that make?).

Of course, my General Grabber HTS 60s are 116, and I don't notice any problem. So maybe this is all academic. I'm just remembering that if you search on 'Best tires for towing travel trailers' most articles say use 'E'-rated tires, which means essentially LR 123 or higher. But a lot of travel trailers are much heavier than our Escapes.

Actually, my Generals still have tread on them (Mr Lincoln's hair is still covered). Maybe I'll just leave them on for a while; maybe not even change?—user reviews are generally pretty good; the Generals come in LR 123, too, if that's a factor.


We're taking the Escape down to Virginia in a week, so might as well put some more miles on them. Haven't been anywhere far since the Expy broke down on July 1st, fortunately just 30 miles from home.
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Old 11-11-2023, 02:04 PM   #27
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FWIW, Continental has owned General Tires since 1987.
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Old 11-11-2023, 02:40 PM   #28
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I bought new Michelin Defender tires for the Highlander last week. Did not shop prices, did not study the competition. New steel stems, balance on the inside of the wheel, a little over a grand with tax, out the door. I like good tread coming into the snow, rain and ice of Iowa's winters.

Tires mounted, drove on them three days, checked lug nut torque, all good. Sent my son with the Highlander on a 500 mile date night in Minneapolis. Says it drives great. I’ve been running Michelins since one of my Goodyears separated on my pick up and went flat. Dark, 6 am, -12F on the shoulder of US 30 out in the country. Last Goodyears I owned.

For a rough duty tire if I needed one, I’ve had great luck with BF Goodrich tires and would buy the appropriate ones if I ever got back to back country driving. YMMV
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Old 11-11-2023, 02:55 PM   #29
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Dave, which Michelins did you get?
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Old 11-11-2023, 03:27 PM   #30
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Tires

Michelin Defender 2 245/60 R18 105H SL BSW $228 each. The old tires on the rear were worn to 4/32 at 68,000 miles and the two fronts were at 6/32. I let them dispose of the two rears at $3.00 each and I took the fronts to a guy with a used tire shop and he gave me $10 each. So a $26 swing there. These new ones are “80,000” mile tires and that will take me about 3.5 years and I’ll probably not get the full 80,000. I’ll change them out if they are getting down and winter or a long trip is coming up. I used to take the used ones to the park shop and my seasonal folks were glad to get them for their daily drivers. Now that I’m retired and I don’t know any of the seasonals anymore. So I either pay for disposal, sell them or keep one or two for a “crisis” spare.

The Highlander came with Michelin Latitudes. They were not squirrely bit I could feel the flex in the sidewalls on those Pee Wee Herman downhills in the mountains. I did not find them great but adequate and made better by running the inflation at 40 fronts and 41.5 rears. So when I got the first set of Defenders. I ran them while not towing at 38 and while towing at the 40 and 41.5 inflation and they were excellent for me. I’ll run the Defender 2s the same way I suspect. I’m running 500 lbs on the tongue, 4360 gross trailer weight and the Anderson WDH.
Hope this helps.
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Old 11-11-2023, 04:20 PM   #31
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Michelin Defender 2 245/60 R18 105H SL BSW $228 each two old tires on the rear were worn to 4/32 at 68,000 miles and the two fronts were at 6/32. . .
Iowa Dave
No 'squirrelly' sidewall problems towing the 21C, I assume?
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Old 11-12-2023, 10:42 AM   #32
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Thanks—Didn't see your second paragraph, which is why I asked about 'squirrelling'.
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Old 11-12-2023, 11:08 AM   #33
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Wasn’t you, I edited after I posted and added the comments about sidewall stability. My son was back last night and said the tires worked great for him. His cargo was a bed, dresser and bookcase. He used to bring my stuff back with an empty gas tank but now it’s full. Must be doing ok.
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Old 11-15-2023, 08:08 PM   #34
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My 2021 F150 came with LT General Grabber APT tires load range C. Good for 2,500 lb load. I run them at 45 psi and I've been quite happy with the performance. When they wear out I'll switch to Continental Terrain Contact H/T tires as they do better in snow and ice. I won't buy Michelin tires as I've had problems with them.
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Old 11-15-2023, 11:30 PM   #35
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I'll switch to Continental Terrain Contact H/T tires as they do better in snow and ice. I won't buy Michelin tires as I've had problems with them.
Different results depending on experience. I have Continental Terrain Contact AT on my Ranger and 3/4 ton. Next time, I’ll go back to Michelin.
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Old 11-16-2023, 12:23 AM   #36
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My 2021 F150 came with LT General Grabber APT tires load range C. Good for 2,500 lb load. I run them at 45 psi and I've been quite happy with the performance. When they wear out I'll switch to Continental Terrain Contact H/T tires as they do better in snow and ice. I won't buy Michelin tires as I've had problems with them.
Have also had problems with premature tire wear on my Yukon and twice with my Avalon.

When my Expedition needed new tires at 40K I went with Continental Terrain Contact and like them so much got the Cross Contact for our Lexus RX. Both were 25-30% less than Michelin. While Michelin are good tires, they're not alone.
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Old 11-16-2023, 12:43 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Different results depending on experience. ....
In many ways forum 'tire threads' are like 'oil threads'
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Old 11-16-2023, 08:23 AM   #38
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In many ways forum 'tire threads' are like 'oil threads'
Yep, or what’s your favorite peanut butter thread?
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Old 11-20-2023, 12:59 AM   #39
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Yep, or what’s your favorite peanut butter thread?
Adams Natural!
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Old 11-20-2023, 09:12 AM   #40
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The problem with tire threads is they go round and round.
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