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Old 10-20-2016, 02:12 AM   #41
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Our Pathfinder was "only" $41,000 with all taxes etc.....A bargain It has the 5,000 towing capacity with hitch and wiring factory installed and the brake controller harness...We'll change the one from the Ford...
And it has the power comfy seat for Doug...(it was THE most important thing for him--that and towing capacity and heated mirrors)

But I hear you---I will keep driving the Escape as long as it will last but it's towing days are done....
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:12 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
For amusement I went to Honda build/price site. Lots of luck getting information. They have a 3,500 lb tow package and a 5,000 lb tow package. Either can be had with a 1 7/8" or 2" ball.
But what that tow package includes is sorely lacking. Found the same lack of useful information on other sites.
That's one of the things I don't like- it is unclear on most sites whether it needs a tow package and if so what it is, and I know it will be hard to find out any of that from a salesman.
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:25 AM   #43
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The Honda and probably the Acura need a dealer installed transmission cooler for the 5000lb tow capacity in addition to the hitch and wiring. The Toyota and Kia just need the hitch and wiring, but the Kia has a 350lb tongue weight limit from what I can find.
Per the Honda and Acura websites, the pilot is taller and has 152 cu ft of volume vs 133 cu ft hence why it feels bigger inside, it is also a boxier shape and probably wider at the top. The pilot has the most usable 3rd row we have looked at.
I am not an explorer fan based on a rental I drove, but we will likely look at one to confirm. The new 2017 acadia only tows 4000lbs. If they put the diesel in the durango I would consider it even with my anti Chrysler bias, but as it stand I don't see a reason to even check it out.
All the euros are more expensive and will be more expensive to maintain. I would consider a used Touareg TDI, but they are few and far between and don't have a 3rd row.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbie54 View Post
That's one of the things I don't like- it is unclear on most sites whether it needs a tow package and if so what it is, and I know it will be hard to find out any of that from a salesman.
I wouldn't bother even talking to sales staff for this sort of information. They can tell you what's in stock and what it costs, but not anything about it technically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor231 View Post
The Honda and probably the Acura need a dealer installed transmission cooler for the 5000lb tow capacity in addition to the hitch and wiring.
Yes, the web page clipped by baglo (above) shows this explicitly. The questions would be
  • what package includes the ATF cooler, and
  • what else is in each towing package.

Quote:
The new 2017 acadia only tows 4000lbs.
For 2017 the GMC Acadia badge goes to a new model, which is smaller. The Chevrolet Traverse is staying the same size and retains the same towing capacity (5200 pounds), and is expected to stay this large even with the coming update in a couple of years.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:49 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
For amusement I went to Honda build/price site. Lots of luck getting information. They have a 3,500 lb tow package and a 5,000 lb tow package. Either can be had with a 1 7/8" or 2" ball.
But what that tow package includes is sorely lacking...
I agree that Honda's description on the website - at least in the Specifications section - is poor. Fortunately, the brochure is much more clear. In the Accessories section it shows that both packages include the hitch receiver and wiring - and even a ball mount and ball - but the higher-rated package also includes the ATF (automatic transmission fluid) cooler.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:29 PM   #46
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Now, is the 5,000 lb. hitch receiver rated for Weight Distribution Hitch?

I'm actually thinking how much stuff I can get fixed, when needed, for $60,000. Just hit 90,000 kilometers on the RAV4.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:34 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Now, is the 5,000 lb. hitch receiver rated for Weight Distribution Hitch?

I'm actually thinking how much stuff I can get fixed, when needed, for $60,000. Just hit 90,000 kilometers on the RAV4.
Do you not already have a WDH that you use with your Rav4/Escape 17' combo? The WDH will not figure into your $60k. You should be able to use the same WDH with your new tow vehicle and new Escape 19', right?
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:35 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Now, is the 5,000 lb. hitch receiver rated for Weight Distribution Hitch?
You can read the manual for that. I did, and this is what I found:
Quote:
  • Weight distribution hitches
Your vehicle is designed to tow without the need for a load distributing hitch. If you wish to use one, please consult your trailer maker for proper installation and set-up. Improper set-up could degrade the handling, stability, and braking performance of your vehicle.
So yes, Honda is saying (or at least implying) that vehicle and its hitch receiver (which I assume is the same one regardless of the package, because the capacity difference is made by the ATF cooler) can be used with WD.

(For those who are new: both the RAV4 and the Pilot have been the subject of extensive discussions regarding the use of WD systems)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
I'm actually thinking how much stuff I can get fixed, when needed, for $60,000. Just hit 90,000 kilometers on the RAV4.
My car has about the same on the odometer. I still think of it as the "new" car; replacement is about a decade away.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:53 PM   #49
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More about the current (2016) Honda Pilot as a tug...
In the owner's manual, the connection of a trailer brake controller is shown - Honda's wiring harness includes controller wiring. Another diagram shows that it includes a trailer battery charge line.

It seems reasonable to assume that the Acura MDX has the same features, but I haven't checked.
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:02 PM   #50
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That's what it states for the 2017 Ridgeline (most models) as well.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:17 AM   #51
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I'm towing a 2nd gen 19 with a 2017 Ridgeline. As long as you get an AWD model, there is not much else to do to the vehicle, other than installing the brake controller. I purchased the controller recommended by ETI and installation, using a separately purchased cable, was plug and play. (Some people have mentioned having to place a fuse but that wasn't the case for my vehicle.) Towing with ETI's recommended WDH was smooth and the set up straight forward. (The manufacture's video is pretty decent.) Our trailer was delivered, so we didn't have the advantage of first time set up with ETI at Chilliwack. I would suspect a similar experience with the Pilot.
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:02 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by WStatz View Post
I'm towing a 2nd gen 19 with a 2017 Ridgeline. As long as you get an AWD model, there is not much else to do to the vehicle, other than installing the brake controller.
Thanks for sharing your actual experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by WStatz View Post
I purchased the controller recommended by ETI and installation, using a separately purchased cable, was plug and play.
The Pilot manual shows a Honda-supplied cable with plain wire ends for the controller, but buying a plug-and-play cable specifically for the combination of the vehicle makes more sense to me, as long as it is available. The manual does show the connector under the dash, with pin details, so an owner can confirm that the cable they're buying is correct; Honda isn't suggesting that anyone needs to use their cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WStatz View Post
(Some people have mentioned having to place a fuse but that wasn't the case for my vehicle.)
I assume that the manual just mentioned the fuse because it might not have been installed by the dealer. The Pilot manual lists both fuses related to the trailer (in the same fusebox):
Quote:
TRL MAIN (30 A)
TRL E-BRAKE (20 A)
The manual only mentions adding one fuse ("E-BRAKE", for the controller), so the one for the trailer battery charge line ("MAIN")must already be factory-installed.
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:05 PM   #53
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We are very happy with our 5th gen 4Runner with the 4.0L V6. It has had no problems on mountain roads such as the Coquihalla and it easily maintains 85 km/h on the steep climbs like the snow shed with 4 people (2 small ones) and a loaded trailer.

Towing capacity is 5,000 lbs on the Canadian version. Here it comes from the factory with the ATF cooler, the WDH receiver and prewired for the brake controller. I bought a brake controller and pig tail off Amazon and installed it in less than 5 minutes. The only challenge is the 7-pin plug on the vehicle is further away from the receiver than most vehicles so I had to extend the trailer wire but only when using the WDH. I have also towed empty without the WDH and it was fine.

It drives and rides like a truck because it is body on frame with 4LO range. We have a single vehicle so it was a compromise between city, highway, towing, gravel roads for hiking/fishing/skiing, etc.

We also considered the Highlander but preferred the ruggedness and longevity of the body on frame style vehicle.
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:45 PM   #54
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Linda and I are in the process of purchasing a 2017 Toyota 4Runner (when they become available) with the intention of using it to tow our 2017 Escape 19 (July 2017 delivery). I am glad to hear that there are no issues towing the 17B. Do you expect that it will be similar towing the 19?

Comments are always appreciated. I have learned a lot lurking on this forum.
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Old 10-21-2016, 01:22 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ray B. View Post
Do you expect that it will be similar towing the 19?
The 4Runner in Canada is rated at 5,000 lbs towing capacity with a maximum 500 lb tongue weight. I am not sure if the max tongue weight get adjusted when using a WDH but I assume not. We have a 2012 4Runner which is the last year before the 5th gen refresh. I have read that the new 5th gens (2013+) now have trailer sway control and other features that make towing even better.

Our 4Runner tows our 17 as if it isn't even there most of the time. The first gen 17B is 2150 lbs dry with a 3500 lbs GVWR; I have never weighed ours when loaded but I don't think we are close to the max weight. We live near the mountains and almost always have to go over them to go somewhere. We also have a loaded vehicle with 4 people and lots of kid stuff. Given those factors I didn't want to exceed 80% of the rated capacity of the vehicle when towing. Some people feel that Toyota, being a conservative company, underrates the performance/capacity of their vehicles. I agree but I think that is what make them reliable and long-lasting.

Your second gen 19 will be 2950 lbs dry with a 5000 lbs GVWR. If you load the trailer right to the maximum than you will be pushing the limits of the 4Runner. One area of concern would be tongue weight. Most trailers need between 12% and 15% of the trailer weight on the tongue to ensure good towing behaviour, though this might be different for dual axle trailers so you should investigate this further. Using a max of 500 lbs and 12% tongue weight than the max weight of the trailer would be 4150 lbs.

I read a lot about the towing capabilities on the T4R forums before purchasing. One area that most people commented on was that 4Runner squats a lot in the rear when loaded near to capacity. The WDH helps this significantly.

You should also consider the areas you plan on visiting and whether that will impact your choice. If you spend most of your time in Florida/Georgia area than towing at the upper end of the rated capacities should be OK because it is flat. If you spend most of your time in the mountains going up passes than you should do some more research.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:18 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by msweet View Post
The 4Runner in Canada is rated at 5,000 lbs towing capacity with a maximum 500 lb tongue weight. I am not sure if the max tongue weight get adjusted when using a WDH but I assume not.
I agree: I read both the 2010 and 2016 4Runner owner's manuals, and neither one even mentions the use of weight-distributing hitches (WDH); they certainly don't state a higher hitch weight limit with WD. They advise that tongue weight should be 9% to 11% of the trailer weight; with a 10% target, the 500 pound hitch weight limit is consistent with a 5,000 pound trailer weight limit, but the manuals don't explicitly list the the hitch weight limit. The 9% to 11% advice is normal Toyota practice.
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:44 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I agree: I read both the 2010 and 2016 4Runner owner's manuals, and neither one even mentions the use of weight-distributing hitches (WDH); they certainly don't state a higher hitch weight limit with WD. They advise that tongue weight should be 9% to 11% of the trailer weight; with a 10% target, the 500 pound hitch weight limit is consistent with a 5,000 pound trailer weight limit, but the manuals don't explicitly list the the hitch weight limit. The 9% to 11% advice is normal Toyota practice.
Good point that the tongue weight should be 9 to 11% per the Toyota Owners Manual. I had based my assumption of 12% to 15% on previous experience but that doesn't align with the manual.

Regarding a weight distributing hitch (WDH), the 2012 4Runner manual states:
If using a weight distributing hitch when towing, return the front axle to the same weight as before the trailer connection. If front axle weight cannot be measured directly, measure the front fender height above the front axle before connection. Adjust weight distributing hitch torque until front fender is returned to the same height as before connection.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:40 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by msweet View Post
Good point that the tongue weight should be 9 to 11% per the Toyota Owners Manual. I had based my assumption of 12% to 15% on previous experience but that doesn't align with the manual.
Toyota - like other vehicle manufacturers - wants to minimize load on the vehicle while maintaining adequate trailer stability. As long as the hitch weight doesn't exceed 500 pounds (and the rear gross axle weight rating is not exceeded), I wouldn't worry about the 10% guideline: if the trailer is designed to be at 12% (or more) and needs that to be stable, then run that (and the total trailer weight is then limited as msweet explained).

Quote:
Originally Posted by msweet View Post
Regarding a weight distributing hitch (WDH), the 2012 4Runner manual states:
If using a weight distributing hitch when towing, return the front axle to the same weight as before the trailer connection. If front axle weight cannot be measured directly, measure the front fender height above the front axle before connection. Adjust weight distributing hitch torque until front fender is returned to the same height as before connection.
Good info - I didn't check every model year. As we expected, this instruction doesn't change the hitch weight limit. The adjustment instruction is the industry standard for WDH use, and is appropriate as the maximum level of load redistribution.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:37 PM   #59
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I checked out the Sorento and Highlander just now. Sorento- a little less headroom than I like but apparently if I go non-electric seats the headroom is better. Seat very comfy. I liked that the back seats all lie flat with no gaps (I was looking at a five passenger as the 7 passenger isn't as flat.). Highlander- front seat might do, more headroom, but a little less comfy out of the box. Middle seats do not lie flat and that's a deal breaker for me as I mostly have all the back seats down. Back seats were comfy in both, oddly, in the Highlander the back seemed more comfortable than the front.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:52 PM   #60
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I checked out the Sorento and Highlander just now. Highlander- front seat might do, more headroom, but a little less comfy out of the box. Middle seats do not lie flat and that's a deal breaker for me as I mostly have all the back seats down. Back seats were comfy in both, oddly, in the Highlander the back seemed more comfortable than the front.
We use a 2016 Highlander XLE to tow our 21. If you get the XLE you have the option of bench seats(vs. captains chairs) for the 2nd row(one of our requirements(when 1/2 the bench folded down, acts as a desk)). The bench seats do fold flat.
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