Our experience with Valley Driving School

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I was taught 10 and 2 for the position on the steering wheel.

I think all of us "long experienced" drivers were taught that. Two things have changed in the last few decades:

1. steering wheels now have airbags
2. steering in a typical vehicle is much quicker than it was, so it is now practical to make most turns without driver's hands moving on the wheel... particularly if they're at 9 and 3.

But sure, 10 and 2 still works - a lot better than the very top or very bottom.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

And, now, right now, I'm watching "Fifth Gear" on Discovery Velocity channel ( all cars, all the time ) and I can't help but watch how they hold the steering wheel.
So far, all of them ( racing drivers, auto journalists, etc. ) are holding the wheel so that their thumbs wrap around the wheel, not on the spokes.
...
(LATER ) different drivers hold the wheel differently. Some wrap thumb and some do not. Now, I can't watch TV without looking at thumbs and wondering if arthritis has an effect.

Top Gear is pure entertainment, and nothing seen on it should be taken as instructional.. and most of the wacky stuff is staged. For instance, most of the high-speed driving done by the hosts (some of which is actually done by the hosts) is done without a helmet. Good driving practices don't draw a few hundred million viewers each week

Anyway, wrap your thumbs around if you want - I was mostly just explaining that not everyone does, so their thumbs are not pointing forward.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I think the fear of dislocating your thumb when hitting a bump or such comes from experience with John Deere tractors, not with power steering equipped vehicles of today.

Very true. That's why I said it was a concern off-road and racing, not on the street. We're at the point where in many vehicles it's hard to tell from steering feel if the front wheels are even on the ground, or connected to the steering wheel.

[gbaglo]

The show I was watching is called Fifth Gear ( I guess a clone of Top Gear ). You can still see Top Gear on BBC Canada, but I'm not subscribed. One of the hosts, at least, is an ex-professional racing driver.
After watching and reading posts, I'm going to have to catch myself unaware and see where my thumbs are. It might depend on how bad my arthritis is on that day.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

The show I was watching is called Fifth Gear ( I guess a clone of Top Gear )...

Maybe I should drink less beer before reading!

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I was taught 10 and 2 for the position on the steering wheel.

This is quite true for the Model T's you drove when younger, but with the advent of the steering column mounted air bag, experts changed their tune.

[Jim Bennett]

As this 'how to reverse with a trailer' thing has been discussed a few times before, many likely know my stance on these 'tricks' to use for doing it. I really don't like them, and would instead say just learn how to do it proper, so it just becomes a reactionary thing, not something over thought.

If you look at the trailer as though you are pushing it back, and which way you have to move the hitch to go the direction you like, you then just naturally move the back end of your tow vehicle to accommodate this action. I know I am a terrible teacher by explaining like this, but when I have showed this to a few people, in no time they were doing it well. Also, not sure this is how a 'profession' instructor would do it either, I imagine there are a few ways to learn.

I remember taking my son out when he got his license, and had him having to turn into narrow spots, and doing figure 8's in reverse with a trailer to practice. A couple outings, plus then some practice on his own, and in no time he was reversing on his own well. One of his first jobs as a young adult, they learned he had some towing experience, and were pleasantly surprised that he could tow, and reverse, so well. Made him proud to do so.

But, in saying this, as long as you get your trailer in a good spot, and enjoy your camping experience, it really does not matter that much how you got it there.

I have always thought a towing rodeo at a rally would be fun. Set up some kind of obstacle course with funky manoeuvres to do. It would be a great spectator sport too.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Also, not sure this is how a 'profession' instructor would do it either, I imagine there are a few ways to learn.

On this note, I am curious as to how this school teaches reversing with a trailer.

[azjack]

When the kids were about to drive I had them play with toy cars and trailers, did seem to help.
Jack

[gbaglo]

I checked when my thumbs weren't looking and it appears that they rest lightly, on the rim, or around the rim at times. And, the wheel itself is sculpted to encourage holding at about 9 and 3.

[David H]

When backing the trailer up isn't it simpler to place one hand at the bottom of the steering wheel and move the wheel in the direction you want the back of the trailer to go. Once the back of the trailer is turning in the intended direction just slowly follow through.

[gbaglo]

Yup.

[Jim Bennett]

Nope.

You should be looking at the mirrors, not your thumbs, or your hands, or the sterring wheel.

I am still interested to hear how the pros are teaching it. Maybe I can learn something.

[David H]

Placing one hand at the bottom of the steering wheel method allows you to concentrate on what you see in the mirror and not watch your hands!

[gbaglo]

I'm not watching my hand either. I'm watching my mirrors and hoping that my wife is watching the trailer and hasn't been distracted by a cloud formation.
I'm also checking where the front of my tow is when turning to make sure it doesn't swing into a tree or one of those boulders they like to place in campgrounds.

I don't know what could be simpler. If you hold the wheel at the top, you move the wheel to the right to make the trailer go left. If you hold the wheel at the bottom, you move the wheel to the left to make the trailer go left.

[CADreamin]

Our neighbor (who routinely pulls a 50+ft RV/horse trailer), gave DH backing up lessons with his smaller horse trailer before we picked up our Escape. DH did just fine; however, after leaving Chilliwack, we discovered that a dual axle, 19' trailer is just a bit different than a single axle, 15' trailer..... We're still in the learning mode, but getting better with each trip. And, despite the fact that my husband is loathe to ask for help, RV owners are more than willing to offer advice/help ... which we willingly accept as we seem to learn just a little bit more from each person.

The other thing we've learned is slow and sure wins the race. DH was so rattled in the beginning, he would become impatient/nervous for the trailer to start turning and jerk the wheel harder while hitting the gas. After a few disasters, he now knows that he has to make smaller turns, pulling forward if necessary, and lighten up on the gas.

Just for fun, try this on-line game: Trailer Reversing Game | Marops. (We did so poorly, we wondered whether we were really "trailer material" ... ha!)

Jan

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I don't know what could be simpler. If you hold the wheel at the top, you move the wheel to the right to make the trailer go left. If you hold the wheel at the bottom, you move the wheel to the left to make the trailer go left.

Not having to do this extra thinking would be simpler, in my opinion. As the Nike ads say, just do it. Just like turning a screw in or out, you don't really think about the direction you need to turn, you just do it.

When reversing without a trailer, I don't imagine you would take time to think about which direction to turn the wheel. This is should be the same for reversing with a trailer.

All I am saying, is that learning to do it without having to take the time to think about what direction the bottom of the steering wheel is going, seems way easier to me. Maybe the fact I learned without using tricks, makes it hard to see how some think it is easier to do so.

[gbaglo]

I don't see where there is any extra thinking. Left is left.
You are speaking from your experience where you tow and reverse a trailer probably several times a week. You do what you do because you are familiar with it and the outcome.
For a newbie, there is little to learn if they just hold the wheel at the bottom instead of the top. I don't see why you find that involves extra thinking.
Maybe we should compromise and hold the wheel at the three o'clock position and move the hand down to turn the trailer left?

[kstock11]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Not having to do this extra thinking would be simpler, in my opinion. As the Nike ads say, just do it. Just like turning a screw in or out, you don't really think about the direction you need to turn, you just do it.

When reversing without a trailer, I don't imagine you would take time to think about which direction to turn the wheel. This is should be the same for reversing with a trailer.

All I am saying, is that learning to do it without having to take the time to think about what direction the bottom of the steering wheel is going, seems way easier to me. Maybe the fact I learned without using tricks, makes it hard to see how some think it is easier to do so.

Backing a trailer takes some thought when we take it up later in life. When in our 20's physical challenges are mastered pretty quickly. In our 60's they can be mastered but it takes practice. When driving in Ireland on the "wrong" side of the road, I would say "out loud" turning left onto the left side of the road. Doing things naturally, can get you killed in these situations.

[emers382]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Not having to do this extra thinking would be simpler, in my opinion. As the Nike ads say, just do it. Just like turning a screw in or out, you don't really think about the direction you need to turn, you just do it

So you say Jim, yes normally have no trouble with a screwdriver but in the past few weeks have to stop and consider which way I am turning the hose connection, then go to remove a propane tank, oh that's the other direction

Backing yesterday afternoon into our daughter and son in law's driveway on their busy street it was easy, even going in on the blind side and as it happens no vehicle came over the top of the hill. Now the day before not so much, only because I was concerned about backing off the back of the concrete pad down a slope into the river, but a big wood block ensured that didn't happen

Adrian

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by kstock11

When driving in Ireland on the "wrong" side of the road, I would say "out loud" turning left onto the left side of the road. Doing things naturally, can get you killed in these situations.

Whether left or right hand driving, I just remember to keep my wife in the ditch.

And yes, it does take time to learn. In no way am I saying to just do things necessarily the way your brain wants to first react, but do strive to make it a natural reaction, as opposed to relying on 'tricks' to get things done.

Lefty loosey, righty tighty. Right?

[BRietkerk]

Originally Posted by kstock11

Backing a trailer takes some thought when we take it up later in life. When in our 20's physical challenges are mastered pretty quickly. In our 60's they can be mastered but it takes practice.

I agree. Since I was raised on a farm I learned to back up implements and wagons with a tractor which did not have mirrors. The looking over the shoulder method is a habit hard to break. I could still get away with it with the tent trailer. The Escape forces me to use the mirrors. Occasionally I break down and poke my head out of the window to look back. BTW you live in a beautiful area. I have visited the Biltmore Estate…stunning!