I bought a 2020 F-350 Diesel to use for my work. I assumed it was going to be more than adequate for towing my Escape 21C. It tows very well, plenty of power, and with the weight distribution hitch, tracks well. However, I have been very surprised that my hitch drops about 5" when I hook up my Escape, and does the same with my 14' Featherlight cargo trailer. It doesn't seem right to me. When I checked the factory sticker, there was a No Charge line item that read "Payload Downgrade Package". Never seen that before, but it probably explains why the truck rides a comfortably as my 2015 F-150, as well as why it drops so much.
I am looking at two products for rear leaf assist. The Road Active Suspension System, and the Timbren rubber springs that mount to the underside of the frame rails and ride about 1" above the leaf springs until a load is applied.
Does anyone know anything ab out these products, or have another product to recommend to reduce the hitch drop when I load up a trailer? I would love to hear from you. Anybody know what a Payload Downgrade Package really means? Thanks.
Beyond bizarre ...............5" drop on a F-350 from 1 21C? - something is wrong here............
What does your "Tire Loading" sticker on your driver's door pillar state for payload?
Did you fill the trailer storage box up with lead?
Do you know what the tongue weight is?
I have a 2017 Raptor SuperCab with the Roadmaster (RAS) set at the 20% (white spacer) - payload rating (stock) is #950ish. Zero squat on a E19 with RAS and no WD applied, though just delivered with no propane, water, etc. My tongue weight shows a puny #320 - My hitch height as setup by ETI (E2 Fastaway) is a bit low.......but tracks wonderfully. I'm going to try towing without the WDH just for grins........
Did you buy the truck used? Something is WAY off............
I highly recommend the RAS, but there is no way you should need it with an F-350 or an F-250, or even a "regular" (non-Raptor) F-150 with these light tongue weight trailers................not even close...............??
The payload reduction package gets you below XXX # GVWR for tax / registration purposes, but should not effect towing such light trailers at all..........
I believe the Payload downgrade package is only on paper. What does the GVWR sticker say? In my state of California, there are different levels ($ vs. $$$) that you can register your truck based on how the truck is ordered. At the highest level, you need to have a commercial vehicle sticker affixed. At the lowest, it’s not a lot different than a personal vehicle. If you’re towing a trailer or a fifth wheel you can get away with a lower GVWR than what you would need for a slide-in truck camper. Same truck, different GVWR’s.
Technically, I bought the truck used in December of 2020 with 998 miles on it from a Chevy dealership. They said they got at auction, and it started out at a Ford Dealership in Alberta, which the Maroni sticker confirms. Apparently the dealership went bankrupt, the truck was the owner's driver for a couple weeks, and I ended up with it. Factory warranty is still good. i'm delighted with all aspects of the truck, including the purchase, as the dealer called me in June of 2021 and offered me thousands more than I paid for it. But, as I need the truck a lot more than I need the extra $$, so, I still have it.
Payload sticker shows 3205 lbs, plenty for what I do. Factory sticker shows 11,400 GVWR package. However, the Ford Super Duty Spec sheet shows 3900 lbs payload for this truck with the 11,400# GVWR rating, so I lost 700 lbs somewhere.
The front of the truck does not seem unusually raised when either trailer is hooked up. The weight distribution hitch raises the rear bumper about 1.5" when it is hooked up.
I guess I got used to a 3-5" drop when I was pulling the cargo trailer with my F-150 Crew Cab. It seemed like it was working a lot, though, and with this F-350 I can get in trouble because sometimes I forget I am even pulling a trailer when on the freeway.
I don't know what the tongue weight of either trailer is. I do need to learn how to figure that out.
Thanks for the feedback on the Roadmaster. It is quite intriguing. I'll keep snooping around for options.
I’ve been happy with my timbrens. Don’t really feel them when towing my escape, but pulled some heavy uhaul trailers recently with the back of the F150 loaded up Beverly Hillbillies style and could tell they made a difference.
The front of the truck does not seem unusually raised when either trailer is hooked up. The weight distribution hitch raises the rear bumper about 1.5" when it is hooked up.
You've mentioned the amount of drop at the hitch and at the bumper. IMO in analyzing this situation you would benefit from using a consistent set of measurements relating to the effect of your trailer load and WDH adjustments and the most useful would be:
the distance from the center of the rear wheel straight up to the lower edge of the wheel well
the distance from the center of the front wheel straight up to the lower edge of the wheel well
These measurements, taken with the rig on level ground and recorded so they are not forgotten / confused can be invaluable data for assessing the situation:
The truck alone with fuel tank full, loaded as for travel
The above + trailer loaded for travel hitched without WDH engaged
The above with WDH engaged
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcgrout
I don't know what the tongue weight of either trailer is. I do need to learn how to figure that out.
Attached is a CAT Scale RV Worksheet which may be helpful; if you make the three separate passes indicated (truck alone, truck+trailer without WDH engaged, truck+trailer with WDH engaged) you will have a complete set of data for evaluating your situation in a considered and orderly fashion.
The definitive source for your vehicle's VIN-specific axle and gross weight ratings is the white sticker found in the driver's doorframe (example attached).
While the info you've posted about hitch-drop does seem a bit surprising, IMO it's really difficult for you or anyone else to assess your situation or to make informed suggestions without complete data describing that situation.
IMO it's quite possible that you do not need / would not benefit overall from any 'suspension assist' at all, but you may benefit from refined adjustments to your WDH set-up. Collecting all of the data suggested above would help make a better-informed decision in that regard.
Payload sticker shows 3205 lbs, plenty for what I do. Factory sticker shows 11,400 GVWR package. However, the Ford Super Duty Spec sheet shows 3900 lbs payload for this truck with the 11,400# GVWR rating, so I lost 700 lbs somewhere.
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(EDIT - beat like a mule by Centex above!)
The spec sheets usually show "max" payload available for the model. Every truck is different due to options. Believe the diesel engine eats about #500+ of that max. value compared to the gasser.
I'm just astounded at that rear end drop though............wow!
To get the top of the ball at 19" hitched / loaded (no trailer lift kit) you would have to start with the top of the ball at 24" with a 5" drop when hitched. +/- WD engaged changes.......yowser!
Is the trailer riding level?
(EDIT - deleted front end rise question - I misread)
Me thinks you need to visit a CAT scale, or similar.
Doubt it will unearth the reason for the big drop, but you will then know all the variable weights.
You can then derive all the weights needed - and adjust WD if needed.
Also - I have one of these for tongue weight checks, though there are other methods to calculate such. Not cheap but I use for other trailers.......various capacity models available.
Note this requires actual measurements of the distances from both front and rear wheel centers to the wheel well as I suggest in my previous post.
IF your engaged WDH does not achieve both the tow-vehicle front and rear targets and trailer-level suggested by the eTrailer Step 6 discussion then that's where I would focus before considering any add-on 'suspension assist'. Note this should be done with both your truck and trailer loaded as typical for travel.
Yes, it may take several iterations of both WDH ball-height adjustment and tension adjustment to achieve the desired result with regard to both trailer and vehicle stance. The exact method for making those WDH adjustments may vary depending on your specific hitch - consult your hitch instructions.
Though a sometimes tedious labor, that should be a one-time effort that will serve you well for all subsequent travels and is a very worthwhile undertaking.
I would suggest ensuring that your WDH is adjusted to achieve the desired vehicle and trailer-level stance before venturing to the CAT Scale. That would yield CAT Scale data representative of your rig configured as desired. The purpose of the CAT Scale data is to verify:
All vehicle and trailer loads are in compliance with respective ratings with the WDH engaged
You achieve the critically important goal of having at least 10% of the total loaded trailer weight on the tongue without the WDH engaged (critical to provide inherent sway-prevention for your rig).
Given your vehicle and 'sag' comments previously posted I would anticipate that the CAT Scale will prove you are OK on both of those factors with the WDH properly adjusted, but it's good to verify that with actual fact data.
That said, my 2022 RAM has rear coils that I suspect are of the “comfort” variety. It initially dropped about 3” without a WDH. I installed SumoSprings (competitor to the bump stop Timbren you are considering) and the drop reduced about 1/2.
I read reports from folks using either the Sumo or Timbren products that were all over the map as to whether either adversely the truck ride when not towing. You probably know that they come with different densities. Pretty much all reported a reduction in sag, though. In my case, ride quality while not towing is not affected.
Bottom line was that getting both trailer and truck absolutely level while hooked up required a WDH that is appropriately set up. I use a Blue Ox SwayPro set to the suggested starting adjustment point. It was spot on.
3200 lbs of payload needs no ras assistance (I did put it on my 2004 f150 that I just sold). I am actually surprised that any wd is needed at all on this level of a truck. If so match the wd bars to the trailer weight. I towed my 21c a few times without any wd for a few miles locally with the soft suspension and it was adequate for short distances. I know people who have towed Bigfoot 25’s with a 350 without wd. Perhaps you have a failed shock ?
Yes, something is way off. I owned a F250 for years. No load, it was rough, forget a wash board dirt road, you went sideways!!! A heavy load dropped an inch or so. Towed A 36' travel trailer with ease, 8'x20' cargo LOADed, moved me down south. Another trip with my tractor inside. I did use a WDH with those, but not for the drop, as much being a much more stable drive, cross winds, etc. Might have to take to a dealer
Shock absorbers play no role in supporting a load (they serve to dampen motion), so even if removed the truck at-rest will sag whatever amount it sags with them installed.
Air-shocks are the exception - they function as both dampers and in part as load-supporting devices. Ford does not install air-shocks as OE equipment on any F-150 / 250 / 350. Even the high-tech "CCD / Continuous Controlled Damping" shocks available as an option on the latest F-150 has no load-supporting function.
It sounds like your leaf springs have gone bad. I had to have mine replaced this past spring by the dealership ( under warranty ). I noticed the back end of truck was sagging under no load.
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REMEBER PEEPS WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND and PAYBACK is a #%$&$&
Wow, guys, lots of great information and suggestions. I will start follow up on all next week and see where it gets me. The truck is actually very comfortable unloaded. Actually, I have ARE canopy and 100 lbs of wood shelves in the back. But I love the ride. Everything about the ride and handling is excellent, with a trailer and without...just the drop seems wrong to me. Got some work to do. Thanks again for your feedback.
I have heard and read the comments that a F-350 doesn't need a WDH, but I will probably always use it with my Escape. Last spring while driving from Phoenix to LA on Hiway 10 (probably the roughest freeway I have ever traveled) a semi drifted rather quickly into my lane as I was passing it. He got within 6" of my mirrors. I swerved left onto the freeway shoulder, punched it to finish getting past him and never had any collision. About a mile later, a sudden thought hit me - Where is the trailer? I looked in the rear view mirrors, and there it was, tracking true and stable. I thing the WDH might have made the difference between having an accident at 75 miles an hour vs the successful outcome I had. I may not need a WDH, but I think I really want one based on this experience.
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