Safety chain

[Dee Lirious]

in Ontario Canada a 5th wheel hitch is exempted from chains for a "real" 5th wheel hitch that has an operating safety catch built in. Goose necks DO NEED safety chains

[Theresa]

/can someone post a pic of how the safety chains hook to the Anderson pin adapter. I couldnt see in uncle Tim picture cause of the lock cover. thanks

[UncleTim]

That damn Uncle Tim .

Here is a pic of the chains on backwards. I will take a better picture when I hook up again. The problem with this images is; I hooked the chains up backwards. You can see the Anderson red offset with the chain loops sticking out.

Initially I hooked them up this way. Why? I don't know!

So the screws and chain gets attached to the chain loops on the hitch itself, not the offset. Then you just hook the chain hooks to the offset loops.

So this image shows you the hook up loops, but is otherwise backwards. See why I didn't post it to begin with? I will look for a better image or re-shoot.

[Theresa]

Thanks. Where did you get the hardware that bolts to the Anderson adapter?

[Theresa]

oops sorry. I see you can ordere it from Anderson!

[Theresa]

Thanks for your info. it was very helpful to my husband.

[LRL]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Key word on the exceptions is semitrailers, the big boys hauled by semi trucks

Actually, I think the key word is "or." One need not be pulling a fifth wheel AND a semitrailer. Just one or the other.

[jphil23462]

I equally have the Andersen hitch and the safety chains as mentioned by UncleTim. They are stupid simple to attach and didn't make any noise on the first official camping trip with our 5.0.

[SkipperClyde]

In Missouri the Anderson hitch is considered a goose-neck hitch and not a 5th wheel hitch.

Goose-neck hitches are very common on trailers used in the pursuit of farming.
Most states require safety chains for goose-neck hitches.

Missouri is very farmer friendly and chains are not required.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Centex

(b) Exceptions.
......
(4) Does not apply to fifth wheel or gooseneck semitrailers.
>>>

Originally Posted by LRL

Actually, I think the key word is "or." One need not be pulling a fifth wheel AND a semitrailer. Just one or the other.

Sometimes language needs the precision of mathematical notation. In this case, I believe that there should be parentheses around "fifth wheel or gooseneck"; or in other words,
"Does not apply to (fifth wheel or gooseneck) semitrailers."
or
"Does not apply to semitrailers, whether they have fifth wheel or gooseneck hitches."

Even worse, "gooseneck" is properly a style of trailer with a long "neck" rather than the body of the trailer extending over the truck, so there is no such thing as a gooseneck hitch (a gooseneck trailer can have a king pin for a fifth-wheel hitch or a coupler for a ball hitch). This (an example of a removable-gooseneck lowboy fifth-wheel semitrailer) might be what they meant to exempt with the "gooseneck":

... or perhaps they meant to exempt anything hitched over the truck axle. Who knows - it's just badly written. Just use safety chains or cable with an Escape 5.0 or 5.0TA, regardless of the hitch or possible interpretations of local rules.

[Tom&Joan]

Originally Posted by LRL

Actually, I think the key word is "or." One need not be pulling a fifth wheel AND a semitrailer. Just one or the other.

Confusing - A fifth wheel IS a semitrailer. It certainly is not a full trailer!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Tom&Joan

Confusing - A fifth wheel IS a semitrailer. It certainly is not a full trailer!

Those are not the only choices. A fifth-wheel can be a semi-trailer (if roughly half of the load is on the hitch) or (as in the Escape 5.0 and most recreational fifth-wheels) a pony trailer... and a full trailer could use a fifth-wheel hitch (although they usually have a ring for a pintle hitch). The term "pony trailer" is typically used only in commercial vehicles and regulations; here is a typical definition (from Manitoba regulations):

Pony Trailer: A vehicle without motive power that is equipped with a rigid drawbar and is designed to be towed by another vehicle and is designed to carry all or most of its gross vehicle weight on its axles.

More than 80% of the trailer's weight on a single set of its own axles is most of its gross weight and makes the Escape 5.0 a pony trailer.

For comparison, the same source gives this as the definition of a semi-trailer, including a superfluous reference to use of a fifth-wheel hitch:

Semi-Trailer: A trailer designed so that a substantial part of its weight and load rests on and is carried by the truck tractor, another semi-trailer or a trailer converter dolly which it is attached by a fifth wheel coupler.

Less than 20% of the trailer's weight on the king pin is not substantial in this context, and means that the Escape 5.0 is not a semi-trailer.

The classification of full trailer, semi-trailer, or pony trailer doesn't have any technical relevance to the use of safety chains, but it can still appear in legal regulations.

[C&G in FL]

After thinking about this for a while, I can say with 100% certainty that safety chains are NOT required on 5th Wheel recreational trailers in Texas. While it took a bit of time, I contacted the Texas DPS. They referred me to the law enforcement branch. So I contacted the Texas State Police. Below is the email I sent and the response that I received:

MY INQUIRY:
I have been told by some Texas residents that the State of Texas requires safety chains when towing a recreational 5th Wheel camping trailer. This is contrary to everything I had previously been told; I had never heard that safety chains are mandatory in 5th Wheels in Texas until recently. I read the statute and it is somewhat confusing. And when I Google “Does Texas require safety chains on 5th Wheel trailers, I find the opposite answer, specifically, the U.S. does not require safety chains on 5th Wheels but safety chains are required when the connection is by ball and coupler, whether the trailer is pulled by a “bumper” hitch of if it is a gooseneck. And some Texas residents have posted on the internet in response to this question that 5th Wheels are the only trailers that do not require safety chains.

I do not want to violate Texas laws if I am passing through or plan to camp in Texas. I may have already unknowingly done so four years ago when I crossed the panhandle towing my trailer unaware that any State required 5th Wheels to have safety chains. Anyway, can you please clarify? If I tow my 5th Wheel in Texas, am I required to have safety chains?

RESPONSE RECEIVED:
Good Morning Mr. Wright,
You are correct, 5th Wheel trailers don’t need safety chains in Texas. I have attached a copy of the Texas Administrative Code 21.5 for your review.
Should you have any other questions, please let us know.

Charles Longfellow
Sergeant, Texas Highway Patrol
Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Training
512-424-5381 Motor Carrier Bureau – Austin
512-486-6482 – Office
512-461-2438 – Cell
charles.longfellow@dps.texas.gov

I would add that the Andersen Hitch is a ball and coupler hitch, not a 5th Wheel so it does require safety chains. The term 5th Wheel has been “extended” to describe trailers, but the term really refers to the type of connection. Lots of people refer to the Scamp 19 as a 5th Wheel because of this, but the Scamp 19 uses a ball and coupler and is therefore not using a 5th Wheel connection. It, too, would require safety chains.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

After thinking about this for a while, I can say with 100% certainty that safety chains are NOT required on 5th Wheel recreational trailers in Texas.

There is a police saying that goes with this thread. "You May Beat the Rap, But You Can't Beat The Ride".

If a Texas patrolman thinks that you need safety chains on a 5th wheel travel trailer and a number of them do, you will get the ticket and have to fight it in court. As you stated, the law is on your side if you are towing a 5th wheel trailer but you still have to go to court with the inherent delays and hassle.

Oh, you are traveling through Texas to somewhere else? Well, I guess you will coming back to Texas for your court date or you will just pay the fine to keep from doing that.

If you want to see how this works in Texas, follow the Texas registration thread and see how many different ways registration is done here. The law is clear on what needs to be done to register but it seems that each TxDMV clerk does it differently based on their interpretation of the law.

And these are people who do registration fairly often. That highway patrolman that pulled you over is normally not that familiar with the nuances of the safety chain law and will probably give you the ticket just to be on the safe side.

Welcome to the "Ride".

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

There is a police saying that goes with this thread. "You May Beat the Rap, But You Can't Beat The Ride".

If a Texas patrolman thinks that you need safety chains on a 5th wheel travel trailer and a number of them do, you will get the ticket and have to fight it in court. As you stated, the law is on your side if you are towing a 5th wheel trailer but you still have to go to court with the inherent delays and hassle.

Oh, you are traveling through Texas to somewhere else? Well, I guess you will coming back to Texas for your court date or you will just pay the fine to keep from doing that.

If you want to see how this works in Texas, follow the Texas registration thread and see how many different ways registration is done here. The law is clear on what needs to be done to register but it seems that each TxDMV clerk does it differently based on their interpretation of the law.

And these are people who do registration fairly often. That highway patrolman that pulled you over is normally not that familiar with the nuances of the safety chain law and will probably give you the ticket just to be on the safe side.

Welcome to the "Ride".

And that is why I have printed out the response to from the Texas State Police and have put 3 copies in the glove box of my truck. Should a highway patrolman issue me a citation, I will respectfully show him the Highway Patrol’s response from a person of higher rank, and if he/she persists, I will respectfully tell them that I will fight the ticket in court.
I will then have the option of filing a civil suit against the patrolman for expenses accrued due to their action. I seriously doubt that any patrolman would issue a citation after seeing a written statement from a State Police sergeant. As a result, I am not going to install safety chains on my 5.0TA because one State out of 50 seemingly cannot write laws that do not confuse their law enforcement personnel.

[cpaharley2008]

Good luck Carl,
I doubt any patrolman would accept any undocumented statement unless there was personal knowledge. Take the ticket and fight it in court will be their response, oh and stay out of Texas.Good luck....

[Centex]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

,,, Take the ticket and fight it in court will be their response, oh and stay out of Texas.Good luck....

Actually the much more likely response would be a polite explanation and maybe a 'warning citation' which would require no active follow-up with law enforcement or the judiciary at all.

That is, of course, absent any extenuating circumstance like an accident involving a 'loose trailer' (in which case this would be the least of the bothers), or an escalation of the situation by an argumentative person seeking to 'make a point' on the roadside.

IME (both personal and anecdotal) Texas DPS ('State Troopers'), like most states' troopers, are loath to make a 'federal case' out of such matters and tend to want 'out-of-staters' to feel welcome to stick-around spending their money on commercial support of the local economy, not punitive support of the local government. Polite respect and understanding that such public safety personnel deserve begets the polite respect and understanding that such civilians deserve, IME.

YMMV, and I'm sure that my comment can incite a raft of replies with anecdotes about contrary experience (heard plenty of those stories, too, usually leaving one wondering about the un-biased totality of the 'interaction'). Not my intent to draw-out this thread with such anecdotes, but let 'er rip if you must .....

[tractors1]

If I were a policeman, this is the part of the message that would get my attention. It would be useful to research before writing a ticket.



"RESPONSE RECEIVED:
Good Morning Mr. Wright,
You are correct, 5th Wheel trailers don’t need safety chains in Texas. I have attached a copy of the Texas Administrative Code 21.5 for your review.
Should you have any other questions, please let us know."

[C&G in FL]

That is precisely my point, Charlie. If handed a print out of an email from a higher ranking individual in the state police, possibly a name he recognizes, I would think the officer would call in for clarification. At the very least, he/she would likely follow up and come to the realization that he/she has been operating under the wrong safety chain premise. I have encountered very few LEOs who are unreasonable, and if it were obvious when dealing with one who is, it is not unreasonable to ask that a shift supervisor be called to the scene. If there are State Police Patrolmen who do not understand the laws they are entrusted to enforce, it would seem to be an indication that their training leaves something to be desired. Even if I were passing through Texas and did not want to return to contest a ticket, I would find out who the judge handling traffic violations is, send the judge a letter with the documentation stating chains are not required, and requesting that he/she dismiss the case.

[Tom&Joan]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Those are not the only choices. A fifth-wheel can be a semi-trailer (if roughly half of the load is on the hitch) or (as in the Escape 5.0 and most recreational fifth-wheels) a pony trailer... and a full trailer could use a fifth-wheel hitch (although they usually have a ring for a pintle hitch). The term "pony trailer" is typically used only in commercial vehicles and regulations; here is a typical definition (from Manitoba regulations):

More than 80% of the trailer's weight on a single set of its own axles is most of its gross weight and makes the Escape 5.0 a pony trailer.

For comparison, the same source gives this as the definition of a semi-trailer, including a superfluous reference to use of a fifth-wheel hitch:

Less than 20% of the trailer's weight on the king pin is not substantial in this context, and means that the Escape 5.0 is not a semi-trailer.

The classification of full trailer, semi-trailer, or pony trailer doesn't have any technical relevance to the use of safety chains, but it can still appear in legal regulations.

In the US a semitrailer is only defined as a trailer with a portion of the trailer's weight is carried by a tractor or another truck so equipped to haul a semi as opposed to a full trailer. In my many years of driving rigs, I have never seen a reference to any percentage of weight being on the tractor, you just had to be aware of state's weight laws. For instance NY and Ohio may have the same gross weight, but quite different axle weights. As far as fifth wheel vs gooseneck goes, to me it is simple. I had a heavy equipment trailer that was convertible via different hitch heads. I used it both ways depending on which truck I hauled it with. When configured as a gooseneck I used chains, as a ball hookup made chains mandatory. I think in the case of an Andersen, I would always use chains, even though being stopped by law enforcement is very unlikely, having an accident (maybe being rearended), any equipment violation is fodder for an insurance company.