Silverado EV towing a 21

[cpaharley2008]

We had a T@da, the T@B's bigger sister, way back before we discovered Escapes......

[Downsized]

Somebody in our town owns one. I see it rollin out of town on weekends. Nice.

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

So if a given EV has a range of 240 miles non towing and a range of 160 towing and you work within the suggested battery range of 20% to 80% that only gives you a true range of 96 miles.

Yes I don’t think 240 mi range is adequate, in fact that’s just enough for a people carrier. We bought our Bolt in 2017 because it was the first affordable 200+ mile EV, but I wouldn’t tow with it (some people do thought). I think 400+ miles is the starting point for towing, hence the Silverado. Ultium Gen II comes around 2025 with 500-650 mi range which will be plenty.

Most EV SUVs now are 300+ miles, like the Blazer, Equinox etc

[GregWCIL]

Originally Posted by TahoeJoe

I smell a business opportunity here...what will folks do with their time while waiting for their EV's to charge at the stations? I'm not sure exactly what forms that opportunity will take, but the point is...lots of customers with disposable income spending more time at stations, and also choosing which stations to spend that time at. One idea: more facilities for pets?

One word: Slots

[Downsized]

I can’t speak for the half tons as they have bigger batteries, but for us in our electric SUV the typical charge time is just about right to use the facilities, get a coffee, walk the chihuahua and do a safety walk around of the trailer. Once in awhile there is an extra 5 or 10 minutes but really it’s not a big deal for us. 2 hours of road time later rinse and repeat. Everybody travels differently of course. And at night we sometimes charge in the campground if we are on a serviced site.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

So if a given EV has a range of 240 miles non towing and a range of 160 towing and you work within the suggested battery range of 20% to 80% that only gives you a true range of 96 miles. So every 96 miles you need to spend 45 minutes charging.

I believe most if not all EV manufacturer's have a SOC safety margin designed in already to prolong traction battery life. I can tell you that Toyota's Prime plug-in hybrids have this SOC safety margin. When the RAV4 prime shows fully charged on the dash gauge the actual battery SOC is around 90% when the dash gauge shows empty the actual battery SOC is 13 - 14% according to many on the forums.

[Selkirk]

I recently watched this video, and thought it would be of value to this conversation. I think Alec does a good job of explaining the ideal use cases for EV's in the present day and how recharging them can be best accomplished utilizing the infrastructure that's currently available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w

There is no doubt that some may be successful using an EV as a tow vehicle on extended trips right now. But, IMHO, I don't think we are quite yet at the point where it's a practical solution for most long-distance travelers hauling relatively heavy loads.

I see trucks such as the Lightning and Silverado EV being perfect for fleet use, urban contractors, commuters, etc....any situation where you routinely travel a known distance (within the vehicle's range) and have a dedicated home base with appropriate recharging infrastructure available most of the time. That still fits the bill for a lot of current ICE truck owners.

[HABBERDABBER]

For the last 2 years, I've been pondering a change in my vehicle. I have a fleet....2016 Subaru Outback, 2017 Subaru Impreza, 2012 Chevy Express 3500 van for towing.
An inheritance and MRD's for IRA's means I got to spend some coin. And coffins don't have pockets, as wise Leon once said. So now I'm revved up on a Bolt to replace the Impreza hatchback. I bought that car for low entry for an aged dog...no...not me, a dog. Dog gone, and maybe time to move on and electrify.
As a retired gezzer, I have the vehicles now to get me where I need to go, and mileage range is not much of an issue, or towing capacity.
I've tried Toyota Prius Prime dealer visits 2X. First time, production in Japan halted due to Covid. Second time, they had a $5K upcharge over MSRP because they could, and didn't have or know when they would have a vehicle to sell.
So, tomorrow, I'm off to the local Chevy dealer to see what I can see.
We will see what becomes of this boondoggle.

Any advice, cautions or input from the forum?

Primary use of this rig will be local, under 200, mostly 40 mile stuff. If I have the need, I have 2 ICE vehicles to meet the other needs.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by EscapingDan

Mfgs have two choices, either take existing ICE components (chassis, body panel etc) and make a BEV out of it, or do a ground up BEV, which takes longer and is harder if they don’t have a long track record or a platform.

You missed the third alternative, which is what Ford actually did: mount an existing body on a new platform.

Originally Posted by EscapingDan

Anyhow, a Ford exec said that to get management sign off on the project they had to make it profitable, which meant leveraging the F150 pricing power. So they reused as many components as possible. This isn’t quite a fair comparison, but think of a F150 with a battery and motors bolted on, with some different cosmetics. Problem with these retreads is they’re not optimized for electric propulsion, so you’re getting suboptimal handling, aero, GVWR and so forth compared to a ground up BEV design.

"As many components as possible" is the entire body (cab and box) and interior, plus probably front suspension and steering because they would be the same if designed from scratch regardless of powertrain.

It's not just a battery and motors bolted on, it is a different frame designed to work with the battery and a completely different type of rear suspension... and yes, two electric drive units.

The aero is bad, but pickup buyers want the massive blunt shape, so it would have that even if designed from scratch as an EV. Look at a Rivian R1T - same boxy design.


If anyone is interested in an example of just stuffing a battery and motor into an existing vehicle, look at the Ford E-Transit; it has a Mach E rear drive unit and battery mounted under a Transit, with a different rear suspension to make it work. The fit of the battery to the vehicle's structure is very far from optimal, because they were not designed to work together. This is very different from the F-150 Lightning.

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by Chamberman

I believe most if not all EV manufacturer's have a SOC safety margin designed in already to prolong traction battery life. I can tell you that Toyota's Prime plug-in hybrids have this SOC safety margin.

Pretty sure that most modern BEVs don’t pad, but yeah it used to be a thing.

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

So, tomorrow, I'm off to the local Chevy dealer to see what I can see. … I'm revved up on a Bolt to replace the Impreza hatchback … We will see what becomes of this boondoggle. .. Any advice, cautions or input from the forum?

Get the Bolt, it’s a steal at this price. A lot of people apparently think so as it’s posting it’s best sales ever. The Chevy Bolt forum is really active, we all love these cars.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

You missed the third alternative, which is what Ford actually did: mount an existing body on a new platform.

Small distinction but OK. Ford hasn’t really been taking EVs seriously. The Focus was a joke, Mach-E is pretty solid on the outside (inside is basically upgraded Focus), and they didn’t think the Lightning would sell. Going back to Henry Ford the pattern seems to be to rely on bread and butter and react late to trends. Not trying to bash Ford but I’m not impressed with their lack of vision. Anyhow finally now they’ve started to develop an architecture like Ultium or MEB.

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

For the last 2 years, I've been pondering a change in my vehicle. I have a fleet....2016 Subaru Outback, 2017 Subaru Impreza, 2012 Chevy Express 3500 van for towing.
An inheritance and MRD's for IRA's means I got to spend some coin. And coffins don't have pockets, as wise Leon once said. So now I'm revved up on a Bolt to replace the Impreza hatchback. I bought that car for low entry for an aged dog...no...not me, a dog. Dog gone, and maybe time to move on and electrify.

Any advice, cautions or input from the forum?

Primary use of this rig will be local, under 200, mostly 40 mile stuff. If I have the need, I have 2 ICE vehicles to meet the other needs.

Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt. It will be the easiest and cheapest vehicle to operate and maintain that you’ve ever owned in your life.

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

There is no doubt that some may be successful using an EV as a tow vehicle on extended trips right now. But, IMHO, I don't think we are quite yet at the point where it's a practical solution for most long-distance travelers hauling relatively heavy loads.

Here’s the Silverado case

• Range 400 miles
• Usable range 20%-80% 240 miles
• Avg towing loss of 25% 180 miles
• Time between charges @55MPH 3.3 hours
• GVWR 5k with decent aero trailer (fiberglass or Airstream)
• Charge stops per 4-5 hour driving day one

I’ve been route planning across the US stopping at National parks and such. Not seeing a problem, except the Natchez Trace Drive in Mississippi, for example, means Level 2 charging (dearth of public DC fast charging). The 25% loss is a good estimate given the other parameters of weight, aero and most importantly the max speed of 55-60.

Ultium II in 2025 will have a range of 500-630 miles which is more than enough.

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by EscapingDan

Here’s the Silverado case

• Range 400 miles
• Usable range 20%-80% 240 miles
• Avg towing loss of 25% 180 miles
• Time between charges @55MPH 3.3 hours
• GVWR 5k with decent aero trailer (fiberglass or Airstream)
• Charge stops per 4-5 hour driving day one

I’ve been route planning across the US stopping at National parks and such. Not seeing a problem, except the Natchez Trace Drive in Mississippi, for example, means Level 2 charging (dearth of public DC fast charging). The 25% loss is a good estimate given the other parameters of weight, aero and most importantly the max speed of 55-60.

Ultium II in 2025 will have a range of 500-630 miles which is more than enough.

Il disagree on the useable range. There is no reason you wouldn’t charge it to 100 percent over night at the beginning of a trip. I don’t know about the Silverado but the instrumentation on a Tesla literally says “trip” at the 100 percent point. We are in a campground now. We are leaving for tofino tomorrow pulling our trailer. We intend to be on the road by 9 tomorrow morning. I have set the timer on the car to be at 100 percent at 08:30 am at which point I’ll be starting the tear down and hookup of the trailer. This is common procedure, or at least for the Tesla crowd. Can’t speak for other manufacturers.

On a daily basis we charge to around 80 percent. On trips or when we are towing we go to 100 percent as per the manual. If the silverado allows for that your useable range will be more.

The lower limit of 20 percent is just good practice just as it is with a gas tank. But again, nothing wrong with cutting into that lower 20 percent if you know the truck and destination well.

Jmho.

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by Downsized

Il disagree on the useable range. There is no reason you wouldn’t charge it to 100 percent over night at the beginning of a trip.

If you like but for me it doesn’t help. Ultium isn’t hurt from fast charging but hitting the extremes is damaging for all Li batteries. But I don’t drive more than five hours and need at least one break so a few extra miles doesn’t matter.

Anyhow GM is conservative with range (Bolt has 30 more miles than the spec) and have said 400+ mi. Back of the envelope calculations show we might conservatively get 430-440 miles actual, so the final could be used as buffer.

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt. It will be the easiest and cheapest vehicle to operate and maintain that you’ve ever owned in your life.

True but I’d avoid the Leaf with that stupid air (un)cooled battery. The Japanese hate BEVs, we’ve been a solid Japanese car family forever but no more, America has the lead on this one.

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by EscapingDan

If you like but for me it doesn’t help. Ultium isn’t hurt from fast charging but hitting the extremes is damaging for all Li batteries. But I don’t drive more than five hours and need at least one break so a few extra miles doesn’t matter.

Anyhow GM is conservative with range (Bolt has 30 more miles than the spec) and have said 400+ mi. Back of the envelope calculations show we might conservatively get 430-440 miles actual, so the final could be used as buffer.

Yah I get that. It should work out well for you. I’ll be following your adventure. Thanks for sharing the journey.

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt. It will be the easiest and cheapest vehicle to operate and maintain that you’ve ever owned in your life.

A full & accurate debriefing will be conducted on your e-vehicle wisdom at the Mighty Mississippi River Rendezvous, I trust, over a cackling campfire and a few adult beverages. Or soda pop, if that's what you prefer. Iced tea, anyone?

What's the backstory on your "splitting lanes" moniker? Bowling, or the long, lonesome hi-way?

[Micheal K]

Originally Posted by EscapingDan

True but I’d avoid the Leaf with that stupid air (un)cooled battery.

+1. I’d also avoid the Leaf because of dwindling support for the CHAdeMO fast charging system.

[GregWCIL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The aero is bad, but pickup buyers want the massive blunt shape, so it would have that even if designed from scratch as an EV. Look at a Rivian R1T - same boxy design.

I’d like to see the car companies’ research on that. I for one would much prefer more aerodynamic shape. My new Chevy Silverado has a higher front hood than ever. They could have helped mileage and visibility with a sleeker design. And the GMC version is even blunter on the nose.

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by GregWCIL

I’d like to see the car companies’ research on that. I for one would much prefer more aerodynamic shape. My new Chevy Silverado has a higher front hood than ever. They could have helped mileage and visibility with a sleeker design. And the GMC version is even blunter on the nose.

Cybertruck has pretty good aero quality’s. It will be interesting to see the final specs. The stainless steel should be a hit for those who hate waxing a truck. .