This is the contradiction...

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

The Pinto Memo: ‘It’s Cheaper to let them Burn!’

The Infamous "Pinto Memo"

The following figures are drawn from the 1973 memorandum* written for and circulated amongst senior management at the Ford Motor Company concerning cost-benefit analysis of retrofitting or altering production of autos and light trucks susceptible to fires from leaking gas tanks after roll-over.

Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires

Expected Costs of producing the Pinto with fuel tank modifications:
Expected unit sales: 11 million vehicles (includes utility vehicles built on same chassis)
Modification costs per unit: $11.00

Total Cost: $121 million (11,000,000 vehicles x $11.00 per unit)

Expected Costs of producing the Pinto without fuel tank modifications:
Expected accident results (assuming 2100 accidents)
180 burn deaths
180 serious burn injuries
2100 burned out vehicles

Unit costs of accident results (assuming out of court settlements)
$200,000 per burn death
$67,000 per serious injury
$700 per burned out vehicle

Total Costs: $49.53 million (180 deaths x $200k) + (180 injuries x $67k) + (2100 vehicles x $700 per vehicle)

(*http://www.calbaptist.edu/dskubik/pinto.htm)

And you expect Ford to put an new sticker on every hitch receiver?

A poor example of corporate America. The runaway Audi 5000s, the fuel tanks outside of the frame rail on Chevy Trucks also come to mind. That last one was linked to another Corporate misdeed. NBC testing these trucks with the gas tank design with rigged trucks and explosives and never told the viewers. However, good point here.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Voyager

This is what a regular Class III sticker is like. It’s off some unknown vehicle..but shows the difference.

I think where you are getting confused, is with this sticker the maximum capacity changes when using a weight distributing hitch (5000 lbs without / 10,500 lbs with).

With your hitch receiver it doesn't change the maximum load for the receiver whether you use a weight distributing hitch or not is 5000 lbs.

To match the above sticker and what is stated in the manual, the sticker should actually say 3500 lbs without WD and 5000 lbs with WD. The manual says be more restrictive than what the sticker on the receiver says, which is why the sticker says see the manual. Nothing (not the manual nor the receiver sticker) says do NOT use a weight distributing hitch.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Voyager

A poor example of corporate America. The runaway Audi 5000s...

There were no runaway Audi 5000's produced by "corporate America". First, that car was designed and built in Germany, but also the only problem with the car was that idiots would push the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal. Don't blame the company for incompetent drivers.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Attachment 48785


I think where you are getting confused, is with this sticker the maximum capacity changes when using a weight distributing hitch (5000 lbs without / 10,500 lbs with).

With your hitch receiver it doesn't change the maximum load for the receiver whether you use a weight distributing hitch or not is 5000 lbs.

To match the above sticker and what is stated in the manual, the sticker should actually say 3500 lbs without WD and 5000 lbs with WD. The manual says be more restrictive than what the sticker on the receiver says, which is why the sticker says see the manual. Nothing (not the manual nor the receiver sticker) says do NOT use a weight distributing hitch.

3500 is only a recommendation in the Manual. Labels can be the same too. I think I’ve seen 500/5000 on both WC and WTD.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

There were no runaway Audi 5000's produced by "corporate America". First, that car was designed and built in Germany, but also the only problem with the car was that idiots would push the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal. Don't blame the company for incompetent drivers.

Ok ok ..I got the USA thing wrong. Good to know the pedals can be placed where you like. I’d like my accelerator to the left of the brake, just to keep me on my toes. Seems odd so many people had that problem with that car. Do you have a stake in that company or something? Those same incompetent people never seemed to have issue before that vehicle or since. But, to be honest , I haven’t read anything about the Audi 5000 in years so I’m far from any expert on that case.

[Mike G]

Then there's the joke about the Corvair rear-ending the Pinto....

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Mike G

Then there's the joke about the Corvair rear-ending the Pinto....

[Voyager]

I loved Corvairs, I knew a guy that had three of them in the early 70’s

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Voyager

Labels can be the same too...

That Ford label shows limits for both modes (weight carrying and weight distributing), despite the fact that the values for both modes are the same. The Ford label on the Explorer's hitch receiver shows only a weight carrying limit. The implication seems obvious to me.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That Ford label shows limits for both modes (weight carrying and weight distributing), despite the fact that the values for both modes are the same. The Ford label on the Explorer's hitch receiver shows only a weight carrying limit. The implication seems obvious to me.

Precisely

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Voyager

Good to know the pedals can be placed where you like. I’d like my accelerator to the left of the brake, just to keep me on my toes.

The Audi 5000 had absolutely conventional pedal positions, although the brake pedal was sized as it is in a manual-transmission car, even with the automatic. Some incompetent drivers here had difficulty putting their foot in the general vicinity of the correct pedal, apparently because they were accustomed to those enormous boards used as brake pedals on most North American automatic transmission cars.

Originally Posted by Voyager

Seems odd so many people had that problem with that car.
...
Those same incompetent people never seemed to have issue before that vehicle or since.

People had similar problems with other models, and continue to do so - almost every time some idiot drives through the front window of a store from a parking lot, they have put the vehicle in Drive instead of Reverse, mashed the gas, then when the car moved the wrong way mashed the gas pedal harder instead of the brake. Pedal confusion is such a problem that interlocks were added to ensure that the driver was pressing on the brake pedal before shifting into gear... which is why it's less frequent now.

Again, there is no need to make up some way to blame the manufacturer for the errors of drivers.

Originally Posted by Voyager

Do you have a stake in that company or something?

I don't have a financial interest in the Volkswagen Auto Group, and in fact in my limited exposure to them personally I never want to be forced to maintain one again. I just prefer facts to uninformed conjecture.

Towing is an area in which misinformation is particularly rampant.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That Ford label shows limits for both modes (weight carrying and weight distributing), despite the fact that the values for both modes are the same. The Ford label on the Explorer's hitch receiver shows only a weight carrying limit. The implication seems obvious to me.

Originally Posted by Voyager

Precisely

Just to be clear, the implication is that the specific hitch receiver bearing a label with only a weight-carrying limit is not rated for weight-distributing operation... whether that is true, or is an error on the label.

[Voyager]

Doesn’t matter...I’ve done my due diligence. I’ve had enough. I’m going for it.

I’m guessing the damn thing will be such a dog towing, I’ll probably trade it off anyway. I do like it... it’s a great vehicle.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I just prefer facts to uninformed conjecture.

To Wit

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The implication seems obvious to me.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Voyager

.....I’m guessing the damn thing will be such a dog towing, I’ll probably trade it off anyway. I do like it... it’s a great vehicle.

Agree 100% with that. Not that you can't do it safely- you just probably will have your expectations reset.