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Old 02-14-2018, 07:31 PM   #41
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I would be interested in see some door stickers of the smaller suvs that some people are using to tow 21 s with (and the front mount cargo box).
Fooling around with the spreadsheet today made me realize the limitation (at least with a 4Runner @ 950 lbs) is the payload. With many 21 owners reporting 450-500 lb tongue weight that would only leave about 500 for occupants and gear. If you are traveling solo or as a couple and the truck is lightly loaded you are likely fine, but add kids and gear in the truck and you are pushing it.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
Fooling around with the spreadsheet today made me realize the limitation (at least with a 4Runner @ 950 lbs) is the payload. With many 21 owners reporting 450-500 lb tongue weight that would only leave about 500 for occupants and gear. If you are traveling solo or as a couple and the truck is lightly loaded you are likely fine, but add kids and gear in the truck and you are pushing it.
Like you say...add a generator, fuel for it and some firewood and someone has to stay home.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:13 PM   #43
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Like you say...add a generator, fuel for it and some firewood and someone has to stay home.
Or add a couple of kids and the dog and your over so then everyone can stay home.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:19 PM   #44
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Or add a couple of kids and the dog and your over so then everyone can stay home.
With self-driving vehicles on the horizon, you'll be able to send the truck off on its own.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:39 AM   #45
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With self-driving vehicles on the horizon, you'll be able to send the truck off on its own.
One truck with the maximum trailer and no people; another truck with the people and stuff but no trailer. No drivers anywhere, and all set to camp anywhere on a major highway covered by current map databases and during clear weather. I'll pass.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:13 AM   #46
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two vehicles == twice the fuel consumption :-/
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:15 AM   #47
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There is an explanation to the payload numbers, these trucks are called 1/2 ton trucks for a reason!
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:15 AM   #48
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Part of the problem is that discussions like this do little good and change few minds . People's preferences for a brand or style of vehicle often take preference over any calculated towing numbers.
People who like SUV's or small vehicles often refer to 1/2 ton trucks with disdain and describe them as overkill when in reality that is far from the truth. The video did a good job of illustrating that point.
It seems people want and will tow with the vehicle they own or want to own regardless of what the vehicle manufacturers or any spread sheet says.
My 1/2 ton V8 truck will pull my trailer from point A to point B but I know the trailer is back there , NO it doesn't pull like a dream
, the rear end of my truck does SAG , NO I don't get 20 MPG'S when towing and I definitely can tell when I am crossing the Rocky Mountains with trailer in tow.

We like the Escape 21 and the 5.0 TA but when their loaded for travel weights are close to 5000 lbs it seems describing them as a lightweight fiberglass trailer is a bit of a stretch.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:01 PM   #49
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Yes, good vid, but his trailer has tongue weight approx 1000#'s, and GVWR 4000 to 5000#'s more than what you can expect with 21' Escape. If I was him, I would get 350 dually, but that's why I like Escape, any 1/2 ton pickup likely to be more than adequate, but YMMV.

Comment about Tundra: after lots of looking I realized Tundra, if you get 5.7 engine comes standard with everything you need. F150 is more complicated with various options for payload, towing, etc. Anyways, that was my impression, made Tundra shine a little brighter for me.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:55 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Part of the problem is that discussions like this do little good and change few minds . People's preferences for a brand or style of vehicle often take preference over any calculated towing numbers.
People who like SUV's or small vehicles often refer to 1/2 ton trucks with disdain and describe them as overkill when in reality that is far from the truth. The video did a good job of illustrating that point.
It seems people want and will tow with the vehicle they own or want to own regardless of what the vehicle manufacturers or any spread sheet says.
My 1/2 ton V8 truck will pull my trailer from point A to point B but I know the trailer is back there , NO it doesn't pull like a dream
, the rear end of my truck does SAG , NO I don't get 20 MPG'S when towing and I definitely can tell when I am crossing the Rocky Mountains with trailer in tow.

We like the Escape 21 and the 5.0 TA but when their loaded for travel weights are close to 5000 lbs it seems describing them as a lightweight fiberglass trailer is a bit of a stretch.
Hi Steve,
Truer words for sure, on this last trip to Death Valley we had stoped @ Father Crowley overlook a younger gentleman approached complimented are rig and proceeded to inspect my truck. He then said "thank god the up hill is over, now all I have to worry about is getting down there". I looked at him kind of funny and asked if this was his first time to DV He replied yes, then I broke the bad news to him that the valley we were looking at was not death valley and he still needed to cross the next mountain range. You should have seen the look on his face. His tug was a taco with a fiberglass shell, two bikes on top and the back of the truck filled pulling a lance maybe 18 footer. His last words were "Yea I think we are going to skip DV this year better go brake the news to my DW " they were heading to AZ.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Part of the problem is that discussions like this do little good and change few minds . People's preferences for a brand or style of vehicle often take preference over any calculated towing numbers.
People who like SUV's or small vehicles often refer to 1/2 ton trucks with disdain and describe them as overkill when in reality that is far from the truth. The video did a good job of illustrating that point.
It seems people want and will tow with the vehicle they own or want to own regardless of what the vehicle manufacturers or any spread sheet says.
Hard to know what good a vid like this does based on forum responses. If one was on the fence regarding tow vehicle, it might sway one to err on the side of caution, especially if they want some leeway for extra cargo or passengers or travel with fresh water in the tank.
I tend to err on the side of caution and there are a lot like me. If they are aware and educated on the benefits of a proper tow vehicle, they may take that route.

I was under the impression I could tow a 25 footer with a ridgeline because the dry weight was approximately 3000lbs. It didn't take long to realize that it was a no-go and would have been in over my head with that setup. Then came the Tundra. Even now I don't feel I have a lot of room for extra weight.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:59 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by CharlesPou View Post
Yes, good vid, but his trailer has tongue weight approx 1000#'s, and GVWR 4000 to 5000#'s more than what you can expect with 21' Escape. If I was him, I would get 350 dually, but that's why I like Escape, any 1/2 ton pickup likely to be more than adequate, but YMMV.

Comment about Tundra: after lots of looking I realized Tundra, if you get 5.7 engine comes standard with everything you need. F150 is more complicated with various options for payload, towing, etc. Anyways, that was my impression, made Tundra shine a little brighter for me.
Yes Ford like Escape offers options so you can tailor or customize your purchase,to match your needs and wants , where Toyota does not. That lack of choice may simplify the buying process but I am not sure that is a real asset.
A person looking at purchasing an Escape 21 may wish to have a tow vehicle that grants them the freedom to camp how and where they wish .
My stock 1/2 ton truck has the same payload problem that plagues the Toyota Tundra but I had the option of buying a max payload package. I don't find that option to be a negative

Having choices is a blessing and not a curse IMHO
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:38 PM   #53
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An interesting article. I suppose the tow vehicle thing is a process everyone must go thru, but I wish I'd started with the truck...

https://www.outsideonline.com/227877...u-vs-truck-cap
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