Tow vehicles are too expensive

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

I don't know why turbochargers are seen as such unreliable machines. Maybe the passenger car companies have done poorly with them?

Our HD 4-stroke cycle diesel engines have been turbocharged since forever and are expected to run 1.2M miles or more before the first rebuild. And we push our turbochargers very hard in terms of peak speed and maximum boost levels.

Oh, and I design engines for a living. That Kilmer guy does not know what he does not know. A lot of mechanics have some level of anecdotal evidence (which has some value.....like, they see certain makes and years with a lot of problems). But then they think they know why or how this translates to everything.....and they are often wrong.

Ok thank you. And yes the reason I was thinking that turbo chargers are not as reliable is in reference to scotty Kilmer pointing out that any 4cylinder engine that's naturally aspirated will outlast a turbo charged one. And it makes sense when you think about it having more parts that can break and that in order to create the extra horsepower the engine is being stressed more. However you're the second person suggesting that Scotty Kilmer isn't the best source for info on vehicle reliability and to treat it more as entertainment. I have often wondered how correct his info is as he tends to repeat the same info again and again (buy Toyota and it will go 500k miles!). To be fair he hasn't come straight out and said turbocharger = unreliable. He's just said turbocharger = less life and higher repair cost than a normal engine. But vehicle reliability has gone way up and maybe the life lost in the engine is minimal or nothing? Such as you state about the turbocharged diesels. Which must be designed to withstand the extra pressure on the engine.

I will put the ranger up high on my list now. It definitely feels like the right size truck for us. Thanks again.

[Centex]

All I'm suggesting is that you will see a brightly visible check engine light (CEL) on the vehicle instrument panel after that vehicle is started or while running for 90%+ of the conditions that will have an underlying code for which the inexpensive scanner will give you the specific code value - and that CEL is your 'flag'. You don't need its specific value from an inexpensive scanner to know that vehicle is most likely a candidate for walking away without paying someone to do further inspection.

When you first turn the ignition to 'on' before turning it far enough to crank the starter you should see the CEL illuminated along with all other dash warning lights - that's your indicator that it is 'working' and will illuminate when there is a 'scanner code situation'.

If the vehicle displays a CEL but for whatever reasons still has overwhelming appeal to you, then yeah you're gonna need more than the value the scanner can add, but also the experience to interpret it's significance to even remotely consider proceeding with that buy.

Methinks JefferyG and I are very close to, if not spot-on, the same page in this matter (scanner benefit and Kilmer), just slightly different approaches to explaining why.

[JeffreyG]

Reliability debates aside, I like a turbocharged engine because the technology will increase engine efficiency, and the engine will be able to sustain power at high elevation. Naturally aspirated engines lose power as they climb. This is why the successful aircraft engines in WWII were the ones with turbo or super charging.

Instead of Kilmer, look for sources that actually are aggregating actual experiences from a large number of owners. Understanding what vehicles are actually reliable is difficult for the average punter, but for sure a data-free bloviator isn't the best possible source.

IMO the way it usually works these days (meaning in the last 20 years) is that most vehicles are pretty reliable and a few have really well known disaster problems. Like for instance......the GM 3.1 V6 was known for this intake gasket leak that would put coolant in the oil and destroy the engine. By the time a failure mode becomes "everyone knows about X" it's really a bad one.

But then also be aware that if you google the worst problems of absolutely any vehicle you are looking at, it will have some. Scotty loves Toyotas but Google Tacoma frame rust or whatever and you'd think they were all disasters.

[h2owmn]

When selecting a vehicle, one must take into consideration the weight of ALL the people and dogs, All the gear, the trailer, and the tow vehicle. It's called gcwr, or gross combined weight rating. https://www.curtmfg.com/towing-capacity gives a good visual description of the various weights to consider.

Used Toyotas tend to hold their value and are more expensive because they will last longer and be more maintenance free. The April Issue of Consumer Reports (available at your local library, most likely) has a lot of information, including the best bets for used suvs and trucks in terms of reliability and value.

For example, if you're considering a Highlander, keep in mind that the back seat will be taken up by two kids in car seats with some room on the floor and in-between them, perhaps for a smaller dog. Your big dog will be in the "far back" as we call it, and there won't be room for a whole lot else. That means most all your gear, clothes, kitchen equipment, food, camp chairs, etc will need to be in the trailer or in a carrier on top of your vehicle.

I am not trying to discourage you; I want you to have fantastic camping adventures with your family, and I want you to be safe doing it.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

If the vehicle has codes, then something is wrong with it. Reading the codes will give you some idea of what.

Otherwise.....yes, an OBDII reader can show you any raw physical data carried on the J1939 canbus. I have an iBanks reader in my pickup for this reason. But I design engines for a living and while I'm used to having a lot better data in a test cell, I can learn a lot from what I see on the bus.

But I don't know what a layperson would do with the information, unless they have a pretty solid understanding of how their type of engine works in a fundamental way and what each channel means in detail.

Ok well that helps a lot. I will forget about the idea of scanning before taking to a mechanic and just focus on a good test drive and then taking to a mechanic. One less thing to worry about.

With that said do you have any advice on finding a good mechanic? Do you recommend just going to one of the larger chain mechanic shops in the area and ask for used car inspection or do you recommend going to an Independent shop with good Yelp reviews? I've had good and bad experience from both types. Although the chain shops seem to charge a lot more.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by h2owmn

Used Toyotas tend to hold their value and are more expensive because they will last longer and be more maintenance free.

Yeah, worth a point I've seen articles suggesting that vehicles like Tacomas and Passports are good NEW purchases and terrible USED purchases for exactly this reason.


I have looked at Autotrader and, some of the vehicles with a reputation for reliability cost so much more than others, it really makes no sense. I saw 2002 Tacomas with 200k miles asking so much money, you could get something else with half the age, half the miles, and have money left for repairs.


Here in MI, nothing 20 year old should be worth $$$ because they all biodegrade. Doesn't matter what the make or model. My 21 year old Honda Odyssey runs pretty good but is steadily turning into FE2O3 nevertheless.

[JeffreyG]

This is my OBD II reader, BTW. It displays up to 8 channels at a time, but there are at least 55 to choose from.

[Donna D.]

Keep an eye on the Dave Smith website, located in Coeur d'Alene, ID. I have a friend that's bought a couple of vehicles from Dave Smith. Excellent cars, excellent prices. Good luck! https://www.davesmithcda.com/

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Keep an eye on the Dave Smith website, located in Coeur d'Alene, ID. I have a friend that's bought a couple of vehicles from Dave Smith. Excellent cars, excellent prices. Good luck! https://www.davesmithcda.com/

Ok thanks will do!

[gbaglo]

My company Chrysler mini van displayed CEL constantly. It was fixed with a small piece of black electrical tape.

[oldwave]

Sometimes you just get lucky, back in 2017 when we were waiting for our 21 to be finished, I was looking for a decent tow vehicle . The salesman I worked with called me up and said he just took in a really clean 2004 F150. It had 37,000 miles on it for 12,000. Needless to say, I jumped on it. With meticulous maintenance we now have 82,000 miles on it and it looks and runs exceptional. Brakes, plugs, all fluids changed regularly. Theres been a few minor things like the heater resistor needing replaced and a cable broken in the drivers window . Supercab xlt with a a tow package and two wheel drive, really a perfect tow for the 21. Be patient , have money in hand and keep looking. The deals are out there.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

I had crossed off supercabs from the list because I thought you needed a full size rear seat for a car seat? Read that 80% of the carseat base needed to have seat under it. But a full size trucks rear supercab seat might work. I need to research and confirm. That would definitely lower the cost and open up a LOT more options in trucks. Thanks!

We owned a 2000 f150 Supercab when my daughter was young. We had her car seat in the rear for many years, but she was old enough to be forward facing by that time. My 2014 supercab has more rear seat room than my 2000 model did so a forward facing seat should fit fine. A rear facing seat may have to sit in the rear middle position. FYI I'm about 5' 11" and I can sit comfortably in the rear seat with my front seat set in a normal driving position. I couldn't do this in my 2000 model it was very tight. I wouldn't want to ride cross country for days on end back there but a 3 - 4 hour trip would be fine.



The best thing to do is take your car seat to the test drive and try it out for yourself.

[oldwave]

the back seat in the 2004 supercab has enough room for car seat. Not sure about the backward facing, we did use it for my granddaughter a few times, but by then she was in the front facing position.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

This is my OBD II reader, BTW. It displays up to 8 channels at a time, but there are at least 55 to choose from.

I use BAFX bluetooth ODBDII adapter and the Torque Pro App on my android to monitor all of my vehicles. Total cost was < $25. Torque allows virtual dashboards on your phone and you pick the things you want to monitor on the dashboard. I've used the same OBDII adapter on multiple vehicles over a 7 - 8 yr period and its worked on everything so far.

[brroberts]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Brroberts - I was just talking to the wife about the ranger. I could make the extra cost work by using it as my commuter instead of just using as a 3rd vehicle only used for trips (or home depot runs etc). My only reason for hesitating about a ranger was just concerns about a turbocharged engine not as appealing with more things to break. But a lot of vehicles come turbocharged now for fuel economy. I have over a year before I will purchase the TV so I will research more and can even probably find one used by then.

I understand the turbo reluctance, but it’s refined technology now, and in the mountains at altitude, it’s a big plus. The Canyon / Colorado are options too, but the Ranger met my personal payload requirements while the others didn’t. From a comfort standpoint, I’ve heard, not experienced, the GM’s have better rear seat comfort. For me personally, the Frontier / Tacoma didn’t meet my towing or payload capacity needs. Good luck. There’s lots of ways to make great memories.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by brroberts

I understand the turbo reluctance, but it’s refined technology now, and in the mountains at altitude, it’s a big plus. The Canyon / Colorado are options too, but the Ranger met my personal payload requirements while the others didn’t. From a comfort standpoint, I’ve heard, not experienced, the GM’s have better rear seat comfort. For me personally, the Frontier / Tacoma didn’t meet my towing or payload capacity needs. Good luck. There’s lots of ways to make great memories.

Do a Google search for Ford Ecoboost head leaks and you might wonder how refined it is. This appears to be mainly with the 2.0L and smaller engines, but its still concerning.

[WillyB]

Three (3) Things:

** The used car/truck market is super hot right now and pricing is quite high.

** Watch out for the older 5.3 chevy/GMC motors as they have a huge documented problem!

** 2WD is less expensive than 4WD

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Hi all, my wife and I recently put in a deposit for a 21NE and are very excited to start creating memories with our toddler, baby and 2 dogs. However we do not have a tow vehicle and I have become Increasingly worried about the high cost of one. When we started our trailer search I had pictured getting something smaller and pulling it with a moderately older vehicle to keep costs down. Something well maintained with around 125k miles that still had plenty of life left for our weekend trips. As the size and cost of the trailer increased with the 21NE I now am feeling a bit irresponsible if I continue planning on getting anything with that many miles. The wife is very excited about a trailer and we are talking about taking many longer road trips across multiple states with the kids (to yellowstone etc).

To sum up:

We can't really afford the cost of the 21NE and something like $50k on a full size tie vehicle. I would love to find something around $20k instead. We are open to anything that is reliable and not going to break the bank. Any advice for make and model and mileage on vehicle that might work for us and not ruin our experience with our 21NE?

Hi: MichaelS78... I remember a time long ago when I could afford the vehicle... but not the insurance. Now I can afford the insurance... but not the vehicle!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by h2owmn

. Your big dog will be in the "far back" as we call it, and there won't be room for a whole lot else. That means most all your gear, clothes, kitchen equipment, food, camp chairs, etc will need to be in the trailer or in a carrier on top of your vehicle.

In my 32 years of owning a travel trailer, things like this were always stored where they were used, in/on the trailer. Heck, I towed my 19 mostly with a Honda Pilot. The dog got the whole back seat, and the rear was never more than half full. The 19 did not even have a storage box in 2009.

With a couple kids there might be a few extra things though, like their bikes and a few toys. It does not take long to figure out what can be taken along to best use the storage areas. We had two kids and a big dog for many years.

We are ones for not taking along a lot of extra stuff that just might be used, and prefer the stuff we know we will use.

Originally Posted by Chamberman

The best thing to do is take your car seat to the test drive and try it out for yourself.

I was going to say the exact same thing, a great thing to do to ensure functionality.

[brroberts]

Originally Posted by Chamberman

Do a Google search for Ford Ecoboost head leaks and you might wonder how refined it is. This appears to be mainly with the 2.0L and smaller engines, but its still concerning.

You can pick any vehicle apart you want. They all have issues, and sometimes you get a good one, while other times you get one started on Friday afternoon and finished Monday morning.

I bought a Subaru Outback Sport 2.5L. I always heard how great these cars were. At 139,000 miles and ten thousand dollars spent in repairs, I drove it to town on 3 cylinders and got rid of it for $750 and was glad to see it go. It cost more than my 3/4 ton truck new. I still have the truck. RV’ers swore I needed a Dodge Cummins. My dad had 3 Cummins in the time I’ve owned my ‘98 Chevy. My dad was also a mechanic.

Find what fits your needs, take care of it, and drive it. You should be able to find something for 20K that will let you make great memories.