Tow vehicles are too expensive

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by Chamberman

Do a Google search for Ford Ecoboost head leaks and you might wonder how refined it is. This appears to be mainly with the 2.0L and smaller engines, but its still concerning.

As I mentioned earlier, it is possible with some investigation to determine which engines or vehicles are known to have big problems.


But be careful because someone, somewhere, has had a problem with absolutely any car you can think of. And these unhappy people are very vocal online. So you have to sort out the cars with widespread problems from the ones with normal problems and a loud contingent of complainers.


In any case, the Ecoboost 2.0 problems are not too relevant here as you are not going to tow an Escape with any vehicle using that engine.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Hi all, my wife and I recently put in a deposit for a 21NE and are very excited to start creating memories with our toddler, baby and 2 dogs. However we do not have a tow vehicle and I have become Increasingly worried about the high cost of one. When we started our trailer search I had pictured getting something smaller and pulling it with a moderately older vehicle to keep costs down. Something well maintained with around 125k miles that still had plenty of life left for our weekend trips. As the size and cost of the trailer increased with the 21NE I now am feeling a bit irresponsible if I continue planning on getting anything with that many miles. The wife is very excited about a trailer and we are talking about taking many longer road trips across multiple states with the kids (to yellowstone etc).

To sum up:

We can't really afford the cost of the 21NE and something like $50k on a full size tie vehicle. I would love to find something around $20k instead. We are open to anything that is reliable and not going to break the bank. Any advice for make and model and mileage on vehicle that might work for us and not ruin our experience with our 21NE?

Hi: MichaelS78... It's a good thing no one pays MSRP. That way the Auto Co's can keep losing money. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Mike G

I bought a 2008 Lexus GX470 with 85K miles on it in 2015. It now has 175K miles on the odometer and it still feels and runs like new. It's probably good for 2-3 times as many miles.

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

I haven't researched lexus much yet but would love anything toyota. I just get a headache when I see what people want for them with such high miles though. I know they can easily go twice to three times the miles of other manufacturers though. I will start researching them because I wasn't aware lexus made an suv like the gx470 that can tow 6500lbs.

Originally Posted by h2owmn

Used Toyotas tend to hold their value and are more expensive because they will last longer and be more maintenance free.

I bought a 2005 Toyota 4Runner in 2015 and my father bought a 2007 shortly after when his Chevy Blazer died. Mine had 84K and my fathers 104K miles. I have 187K now and my father isn't far behind that with his. They have been excellent vehicles overall and do a very nice job towing a 19. If you want more tow vehicle and still want to stay Toyota you could always look into the Sequoia.

[bookerb]

Had a deposit on a new trailer and was investigating buying a near new Highlander. Found a used 19 and cancelled my deposit and for the difference in price from a new one to a used one we purchased a 2011 Frontier with 30,000km.

Yes, we didn't get to choose all the cool options the new trailers have but I also was able to get camping over a year earlier then planned and for far less cash then I had originally expected to fork out.

[dfandrews]

Michael,
Regarding checking out Escape 21's and 19's, since you have some time, try a day visit (maybe 2 day) to fiberglass trailer rallies. You'll most likely find Escapes there, and many, many folks will give you a tour inside and will answer questions.
You can also see what people are towing with, and their opinions regarding them.
E.G. Spring NOG is at Waterloo County Park, OR this week. 300 mi. away.


A gathering at Maryhill SP, WA on the Columbia River may be happening about now as well. (250 mi.)

[DanandDaphne]

In my experience used used full size pickups hold their value better than full size SUVs. When we bought our used Tundra, ten years old with 125K there were similar age and mile Sequoias for 1/2 the price. This was before we got our 5.0 but since you are getting a 21....

[MichaelS78]

Thanks everyone for all the great info. It's hard keeping up with the replies but what I've learned from this thread is the following:

-You can definitely find something for $20k.

-Dont overthink what people on the internet say is a good/bad make/model/engine etc. Overall reliability has improved a lot and any vehicle can give you issues. For the most part you will be ok. Avoid anything with a lot of people complaining about it however.

-New is better so you can be sure of how it was maintained but plenty of well taken care of older rigs that will work out fine. Just reduce how far you travel in relationship to how old and how many miles are on the vehicle, e.g., 2007 ford explorer could work but maybe only for trips within our state.

-Dont worry about using a vehicle scanner, just plan on taking in for mechanic inspection. Scanners require too much training and knowledge for a non-mechanic too benefit from

-Dont necessarily need a 4 four door crew cab truck for carseats in the back. This opens up a lot of options with extended cab trucks. An extended cab should work for many years until kids are bigger

Top of my list currently: Ford Ranger (new model),
Ford F-150, toyota tundra, Toyota Sequoia, Lexus gx470, ford fullsize SUV like expedition or navigator.

Would also consider the following if the price was right and we'll maintained: Ford explorer, Nissan Armada, any full size truck or SUV.

Thanks again, this site is a great resource!

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by DanandDaphne

In my experience used used full size pickups hold their value better than full size SUVs. When we bought our used Tundra, ten years old with 125K there were similar age and mile Sequoias for 1/2 the price. This was before we got our 5.0 but since you are getting a 21....

This is good to know. I had a hunch that was what was going on. Seems like there are a lot of toyota truck and 4 runner buffs out there. But not as many for sequoia.

[Mike G]

Yep, used vehicle prices have risen. In 2015 I paid $22k for my GX470, and now with double the mileage the book value is still $13k. But most ads on Autotrader are asking more than that.


That's one thing about shopping used vehicles... even with demand being high, you still should be able to dicker a price down. And if they won't come down to what you think it's worth, move on to the next one.


Of course, there's nothing to rival that new vehicle's interior smell....

[Stewie]

Chiming in with another plug for the Ranger. We’re towing our 21C with one and it’s great. Averaging 13-15 MPG at 60-65 MPH, and plenty of power available. These newer midsize trucks have as much, if not more power and torque than the early 2000s half ton trucks. Turbo means lots of low-end torque too. Might rev to 3000 accelerating uphill from a stop, but she comfortably runs at 1800 RPM on the highway.

[Hancock]

In 2018 we purchased a new Nissan Frontier to tow our Casita. We sold the Casita and towed our new 21C with the Frontier with no issues. We paid $24,000 for the Frontier in 2018. We have since traded it for a 2019 RAM 1500. It was $38,000 with 20,000 miles on it, but it has more toys on it that one really needs. . The only reason that we changed to the RAM was the fact that we needed more cargo capacity when we decided to go full-time in our 21C. I would think that you could find a decent used full-sized truck in the $20K range if you did not need all of the bells and whistles. I was shocked to see how easy it is to hit $80K on a new pickup these days.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Hancock

I was shocked to see how easy it is to hit $80K on a new pickup these days.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-sev...rs-11569941215

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by Stewie

Chiming in with another plug for the Ranger. We’re towing our 21C with one and it’s great. Averaging 13-15 MPG at 60-65 MPH, and plenty of power available. These newer midsize trucks have as much, if not more power and torque than the early 2000s half ton trucks. Turbo means lots of low-end torque too. Might rev to 3000 accelerating uphill from a stop, but she comfortably runs at 1800 RPM on the highway.

Yeah I've started researching the ranger and it gets a lot of good reviews about towing, ride, payload etc but conflicting reviews about reliability. Consumer reports gave the 2019 1 out of 5 stars, then gave the 2020 4 out of 5 stars and for 2021 they're giving it 2 out of 5 stars. That says to me they have no idea what the reliability will be. JD power gives it 88 out of 100. It becomes even more confusing when you factor in the need for more diligent maintenance. Are they rating it lower in reliability because it requires more strict (and I assume costly) maintenance?

Gives me a headache thinking about it but it's top of the list right now.

At least about a year before I have to buy so I'll know more by then.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

Yeah I've started researching the ranger and it gets a lot of good reviews about towing, ride, payload etc but conflicting reviews about reliability. Consumer reports gave the 2019 1 out of 5 stars, then gave the 2020 4 out of 5 stars and for 2021 they're giving it 2 out of 5 stars. That says to me they have no idea what the reliability will be. JD power gives it 88 out of 100. It becomes even more confusing when you factor in the need for more diligent maintenance. Are they rating it lower in reliability because it requires more strict (and I assume costly) maintenance?

Gives me a headache thinking about it but it's top of the list right now.

At least about a year before I have to buy so I'll know more by then.

PM viator36 (Jake). He tows a 21 with a 2019 Ranger. He's been across the country and back 2 or 3 times now and I'm sure could give you some good feedback on the truck.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-sev...rs-11569941215

I don't have a subscription to WSJ but I get the idea from the first page it let's you view. More and more people are comfortable extending loans out to 7 years. Which suggests that vehicle prices are too high for the middle class. I agree and my jaw dropped when I recently looked at prices of new F-150. Some were $100k!!! I guess I'm just a bit old school but I do not see how a half ton truck that's meant to be used to haul, tow and go off-road could be worth that amount of money to someone. Maybe a diesel dually would be but not a half ton. Such weird times we are living in.

[sofmerc]

I was ready to trade my old truck in last June. It was a2004 F150, supercab that I bought brand new in 2004. It only had 127,000 miles and was in great shape. I didn't need a new truck, I just wanted a new truck with more bells and whistles. The truck I ended up with is a 2016 F150 Lariat with Tow package,3.5 Ecoboost, 6.5' bed with rails installed, airbags Block heater,4 wheel drive ,tow mirrors and trifold bedcover and 26,400 miles on it. The only thing I don't like its a supercrew rather than a supercab. I jumped on it as soon as the ad came out, $34,950 price tag.. There are still deals out there if you look and have your money ready to go. The bed rails weren't something I was looking for but they started me looking at campers...and eventually ordering a 5.0.... Got the Andersen hitch,safety chains and accessories...Trailer should be ready before end of the year (hopefully!!)

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

I recently looked at prices of new F-150. Some were $100k!!! I guess I'm just a bit old school but I do not see how a half ton truck that's meant to be used to haul, tow and go off-road could be worth that amount of money to someone. Maybe a diesel dually would be but not a half ton. Such weird times we are living in.

You and I are on the same page. It would be really tough to convince me that any light-duty truck is worth anywhere near $100K. Totally inflated and ridiculous.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

I don't have a subscription to WSJ but I get the idea from the first page it let's you view. More and more people are comfortable extending loans out to 7 years. Which suggests that vehicle prices are too high for the middle class. I agree and my jaw dropped when I recently looked at prices of new F-150. Some were $100k!!! I guess I'm just a bit old school but I do not see how a half ton truck that's meant to be used to haul, tow and go off-road could be worth that amount of money to someone. Maybe a diesel dually would be but not a half ton. Such weird times we are living in.

Hi: MichaelS78... When I see the huge discounts being given... off the prices on new trucks, woah, then they're way over priced to begin with!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[brroberts]

If you have a year on the Ranger, 2022’s will be a new model. Ford Australia did the last
Ranger and has lead on this project too. It’s rumored to be the same 2.3L in the US variant. No pickups except the Ridgeline score very well at CR. Gas turbos don’t really have more DIY maintenance. Just stay on top of lubrication, but true of all moving parts. There can be some valve carbon build up. Top Tier brand gas and maybe a cleaning every 100 thou miles or so is the street talk. I’ll try to see if I can attach the 2.3 maintenance schedule as a pdf. The oil filter is harder to get to, but not crazy hard.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by brroberts

If you have a year on the Ranger, 2022’s will be a new model.

As far as I can tell, the 2022 Ranger is just a facelift, possible new powertrain options (in addition to the current engine and transmission which will continue), and more computer toys (for "infotainment"); it's still the T6 platform of the current model.