towing

[Reddog21]

I am purchasing a 21ft Escape. I do not want to get a bigger vehicle then needed. I would like to get a Kia Seorento with the package that could tow 5,000pds. could anyone let me know if this vehicle has been used and worked for the towing. The other option I was looking at is a Honda Ridgeline. What is the tongue weight that is required to tow the 21ft.

[cpaharley2008]

Escape's website lists 3200# and 360# tongue weight. You may want to read some of the threads under the heading "Towing and Hitching" to become familiar with the terms. These weights are base weights and will increase with options and your personal items. The max for the 21 is 5000# so your tow vehicle should be rate minimum for that number.
I downsized from a 21 to a 19 for several reasons, one of which is weight. Remember the heavier the trailer the smaller MPG is achieved. You also want to not over work you tow vehicle. That said, with an Escape you may go through several tow vehicles as they are made to last.

[matt]

Hi Reddog21. I can tell you that we towed our current trailer with a Kia Sorento for the past 4 years and it has been a great tow vehicle as well as a great family mid sized SUV. Our Sorento just recently got totaled in an accident and we replaced it with a new Hyundai Santa Fe (also a 5000 lbs tow rating) which we will be towing our new Escape 21 with. Just keep in mind if you go with the Sorento you have to get the V6 AWD to get the 5000 lbs tow rating. My son tows his 4300 lbs Keystone Bullet with a Toyota Highlander and he is really happy with how it tows. Of course the full size trucks will be stronger tow vehicles than the mid sized SUV's, but it's hard to beat the versatility for a family of vehicles like the Sorento and Highlander.

[Reddog21]

Mat
Thank you. We really like the Kia as the al purpose non towing vehicle. We did look at the Highlander.

[steve dunham]

We have a designated commuter vehicle and a designated tow vehicle .We have never found a vehicle that performed well in both categories . Good luck with your search

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Escape's website lists 3200# and 360# tongue weight..

hmm? my late 2014 21' has a gross trailer weight of 2090 kg (4600 lbs). 'wet' weight (nothing in the trailer, but full water and propane) is about 3800 lbs.

4600 is a little closer to 5000 lb max tow than I'd be comfortable with. I'm towing mine with a Tacoma 4x4 which is rated for 6500 lbs and is a ladder framed live axle vehicle. I also have airbags so I can level the truck, but we're considering getting a F250.

Tongue weight should be between 10 and 15% of the trailer total weight. with my trailer 4600 lbs fully loaded, that might be between 460 and 890 lbs, I try and load the trailer to keep that on the 10% side as my Tacoma is only rated for 1200 lbs payload, my wife and I combined are close to 450 lbs, so that doesn't leave much room to play with.

[Oldtimer]

Same here Steve

[Vermilye]

My 2017 Escape 21 with many options including 2 solar panels packed for an 8 month trip weighs 4600 trailer & 460 tongue (lbs). I'm overweight on the Tacoma by 150 lbs, well under tow weight, and get 10 - 11 MPG. I'll be looking for a bigger truck...

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

My 2017 Escape 21 with many options including 2 solar panels packed for an 8 month trip weighs 4600 trailer & 460 tongue (lbs). I'm overweight on the Tacoma by 150 lbs, well under tow weight, and get 10 - 11 MPG. I'll be looking for a bigger truck...

My Tacoma gets ~ 10MPG going 70-75, but closer to 13MPG going 55-60. I have a 2008 'access cab' 4x4 TRD OffRoad, with the 4.0L V6 and 6-speed stick shift manual.

[Mike Lewis]

My 2014 Escape 21 weighs about 4400 pounds loaded with my stuff and with the fresh water tank full. I can't give you the precise weight right now because I don't have the info handy. I believe that the newer Escape 21's empty weight is greater than mine's.

[John in Santa Cruz]

oh yeah, my Tacoma is NOT my daily driver, although it would do OK as one since I don't have a commute.... but for cruising around town, I usually take my 1993 Mercedes cabriolet

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Escape's website lists 3200# and 360# tongue weight.
...
These weights are base weights and will increase with options and your personal items.

Just to clarify, those are the base (no options) and dry (no fluids) weights: 360 pounds on the hitch, included in a total of 3200 pounds (actually 3210 pounds in the published spec) for the whole trailer.

As Jim suggests, the only thing which is absolutely certain is that the trailer will weigh significantly more than this by the time it is equipped and loaded for travel.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The max for the 21 is 5000# so your tow vehicle should be rate minimum for that number.

This is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), which is the maximum which you are allowed to load the trailer up to. This is a limit set by the manufacturer, but if you pile more stuff in there is no alarm which will inform you of your error.

You don't need to allow for 5000 pounds of trailer if you will never load it that heavily, but it is not unreasonably beyond a typical gross (loaded) weight, so in this case the GVWR does seem like a reasonable planning value to me.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

hmm? my late 2014 21' has a gross trailer weight of 2090 kg (4600 lbs).

Yes, but the GVWR was increased; it is now published as 5000 pounds.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

'wet' weight (nothing in the trailer, but full water and propane) is about 3800 lbs.

Since there isn't 790 pounds of water and propane, I assume that this is the as-equipped (with options) and fluids weight of John's trailer... a good example of typical 21's.

Originally Posted by Vermilye

My 2017 Escape 21 with many options including 2 solar panels packed for an 8 month trip weighs 4600 trailer & 460 tongue (lbs).

This is an example of a gross weight (that is, actual trailer with options, plus fluids, plus cargo)... this is the weight to plan on towing (although your weight would only be the same as this if you had the same options and carried the same stuff). This is the value which must not exceed the GVWR.

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

My 2014 Escape 21 weighs about 4400 pounds loaded with my stuff and with the fresh water tank full. I can't give you the precise weight right now because I don't have the info handy. I believe that the newer Escape 21's empty weight is greater than mine's.

Another good gross weight example, but Mike's right... a 21-foot after the 2016 design change is heavier than a similarly equipped earlier 21-foot.

[StanLewis]

Here is another data point for you: our 2017 21', loaded for travel, like Jon's, weighs +/- 4600 lbs with a tongue weight of about 460 lbs. When we were looking at tow vehicles, what I found was that, especially with SUV's, the tow vehicle payload capacity was most often the limiting factor. I notice, though, that the Sorrento has a pretty good payload rating for an SUV. No direct experience (we tow with a GMC Canyon), but I'd guess that the Kia would be an ok tow for your 21 as long as you aren't in a big hurry.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by StanLewis

I notice, though, that the Sorrento has a pretty good payload rating for an SUV.

Yes, I noticed that too. With the 3.3L V6 and AWD, the payload capacity can reach about 1275 lbs. Not too bad for a mid sized SUV. While it's higher than most in it's class, it's needed it if you intend to tow a 21 with it.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

...
Since there isn't 790 pounds of water and propane, I assume that this is the as-equipped (with options) and fluids weight of John's trailer... a good example of typical 21's.

indeed. mine has the 160W solar panel, the big fridge/freezer, the oven, the enhanced insulation and double pane windows, and underside foam... also has the front storage box.

28 gallons of water is 235 lbs, plus 40 lbs of propane makes 275 lbs.

[caheath]

I was looking at the Sorrento also, but not after I found out that the max tongue weight is only 360 lbs. This is documented in the Owners Manual for years 2018, 2014, 2015, 2016.

For safety and handling, you should have 10-15% of gross trailer weight on the tongue. No way 360lbs will be sufficient. Suggest you look at the Highlander or Santa Fe instead.

[thiggins]

I was able to download and read the owners manual for the 2018 Sorento. It does say the maximum tongue weight is 350lbs. You'd also have to get AWD for the 5000lb rating, as well as the V-6.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

My 2017 Escape 21 with many options including 2 solar panels packed for an 8 month trip weighs 4600 trailer & 460 tongue (lbs). I'm overweight on the Tacoma by 150 lbs, well under tow weight, and get 10 - 11 MPG. I'll be looking for a bigger truck...

As Jon points out, the TACO with a v-6 can tow the trailer but it is at it's max and the gas is suffering. A bigger tow with bigger motor and brakes, etc. will tow with less effort and your mileage should improve.

[matt]

Originally Posted by thiggins

I was able to download and read the owners manual for the 2018 Sorento. It does say the maximum tongue weight is 350lbs. You'd also have to get AWD for the 5000lb rating, as well as the V-6.

I would call Kia and confirm the maximum tongue weight. Some of the documentation from Kia says 350lbs and some says 500lbs. [U][I][B] Kia Sorento AWD 6-cylinder with tow package: towing capacity 5000 lbs with tongue weight 500 lbs (Owner's Manual p. 5-104). 2017 Kia Sorento AWD 6-cylinder with tow package: towing capac.
I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy but I would absolutely want to confirm with Kia before making a decision.

It seems with every thread about tow vehicles there are a lot of strong opinions posted. (What's the best truck, what's the best engine, can you tow with a mid sized SUV). Obviously not everyone agrees with each other and that's a good thing, as we get to consider different points of view. However, the one thing I think everyone would agree with is that you must stay within all the manufacturer's weight limits. If any of the weights are out of range then you should not consider that vehicle.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by matt

However, the one thing I think everyone would agree with is that you must stay within all the manufacturer's weight limits. If any of the weights are out of range then you should not consider that vehicle.

TRUTH! We just want people to be safe going down the road. And remember... you're sharing the road with the rest of us