Towing a 21 with a Mid Size Suv

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by marktracie

Please everyone just buy a dually truck with a diesel and you will never have to worry. Just my 2 cents.

except for off roading (we do this) a dually is BAD, for a few reasons.

also diesel adds about 900 lbs that takes away from the GVWR to some degree, and also adds about $9,000 to the cost of the truck, and (a new) diesel engine has maintenance that is possibly more costly over our tried and true 6.2L Gasser

so not one truck fits all.

[Effie]

I enjoy my SUV towing or not, but when it comes time for packing it's a pain.

[DenverRTC]

We owned a 2009 Acura MDX and used it to tow a Casita SD 17 and later a 2013 ETI 19. We sold the MDX in 2018 with about 120,000 miles on the odometer. It was still running fine.

The MDX was properly equipped for towing with AWD and the towing package that included additional cooling for the transmission. This allowed for towing at 500/5000 lbs. Otherwise unequipped the Acura MDX is rated to only 3500 lbs.

It did the job but uphill or into the southwest headwinds surely slowed us down and reved up the engine. This consumed more than a few extra gallons of fuel. It was definitely overworked when climbing or fighting the winds. We carried extra gas.

Last year we bought an ETI 21 and now tow with our GMC Sierra Duramax. It’s a bit overkill, to say the least, but we had it for towing our 13,500 lb fifth wheel that we sold last fall. It’s really great coming down the Colorado passes using the engine brake feature.

I can say that we would not have towed our 21 with the MDX here in the west. Our 21 weighs just over 3,900 lbs empty due to the added options. Packing food, clothing, water, electronics and misc adds about another 700 to 800 lbs. Too close to the equipped MDX limit for my comfort.

Hope this helps.

[Jake930]

Originally Posted by EdColorado

For those that have actually measured the tongue weight on a trip ready 21', what did you come up with?

The chart that's floating around the internet is old and limited with E21 figures.

Thanks

Ed

I’ve weighed mine before every trip that we taken to the southwest. Always between 420 /445.
That’s a 2016 first gen 21. That’s packed up for 5 months.

[Iowa Dave]

Towing with either our former 2012 Highlander and now the 2018 Highlander our 2013, 21 Escape, fully loaded for the trips we take, is 500lbs on the tongue and 4380 on the scale. I usually tow with 10 gallons fresh water and 6 gallons in the hot
Water heater. 37,000 miles towing the 21. The 2010 19 Escape was 420lbs on the tongue and 3760 on the scale. Let me go get some Carmel corn for y’all.
Iowa Dave

[Rossue]

It would seem many would agree a Ford Explorer is a Mid-Size SUV. The 2020 model went back to RWD platform and offers both 4 & 6 cyl EcoBoost engines. When I went to test drive the 6 cylinder 3.0 ST I couldn't believe how much they wanted for it. Ended up with a new 2019 Expy for less than a 2020 Explorer.

When you look at all the specs of size, weight, MPG- there is not very much difference between the two. Have almost 11K miles- most of them towing. With the 470 lbs of torque there isn't any grade that has made me have to struggle to go over. Current trip in Eastern Sierras shows 14 MPG over 450 miles. We can also stow two inflatable kayaks in the back so no more nerve-wracking hard shells on the roof.

Have towed trailers with smaller SUV's, including a 2013 Highlander SE and would never downsize for a 21 for the kind of extended trips we like to take. The extra cargo space is amazing - and it is not the Max version.

[Bluesky]

Originally Posted by DenverRTC

We owned a 2009 Acura MDX and used it to tow a Casita SD 17 and later a 2013 ETI 19. We sold the MDX in 2018 with about 120,000 miles on the odometer. It was still running fine.

The MDX was properly equipped for towing with AWD and the towing package that included additional cooling for the transmission. This allowed for towing at 500/5000 lbs. Otherwise unequipped the Acura MDX is rated to only 3500 lbs.

It did the job but uphill or into the southwest headwinds surely slowed us down and reved up the engine. This consumed more than a few extra gallons of fuel. It was definitely overworked when climbing or fighting the winds. We carried extra gas.

Last year we bought an ETI 21 and now tow with our GMC Sierra Duramax. It’s a bit overkill, to say the least, but we had it for towing our 13,500 lb fifth wheel that we sold last fall. It’s really great coming down the Colorado passes using the engine brake feature.

I can say that we would not have towed our 21 with the MDX here in the west. Our 21 weighs just over 3,900 lbs empty due to the added options. Packing food, clothing, water, electronics and misc adds about another 700 to 800 lbs. Too close to the equipped MDX limit for my comfort.

Hope this helps.

We decided to upgrade to a VW Touareg Diesel which can tow 7700 lbs and hopefully this will be plenty for our excursions. Thanks for your input.

[Roger C H]

NHTSA Studying Two SUVs

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has opened defect investigations into two SUVs: the 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee and the 2001 Acura MDX.
NHTSA is looking into alleged problems with the cooling fan in the Grand Cherokee after four owners claim that pieces of the broken fan blade cut through a plastic casing around it. The investigation involves approximately 132,000 Grand Cherokees with 4.0-liter engines.
NHTSA reported it is also looking into complaints of front coil springs breaking in the Acura MDX and contacting the tire. There have been no injuries or crashes reported from the alleged defects.


ACURA - MDX 3.5L V-6 3,500

- MDX SH-AWD 3.5L V-6 5,000


From: https://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

Do not over load your tow vehicle. You may be able to tow with it, but if you ever have an accident, your insurance company may disown you and any competing lawyer would have a field day.

[Roger C H]

Since a 21' Escape weighs in at 3365#, you should have the MDX SH-AWD 3.5L V-6 5,000. The plain MDX only gives you 135# leeway. A full water tank (224#) would bring you over that.


An Escape 19' would give you some leeway @ 3150# + 224# = 3374" would give you 124# for your personal stuff.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by Roger C H

Since a 21' Escape weighs in at 3365#, you should have the MDX SH-AWD 3.5L V-6 5,000. The plain MDX only gives you 135# leeway. A full water tank (224#) would bring you over that.


An Escape 19' would give you some leeway @ 3150# + 224# = 3374" would give you 124# for your personal stuff.

yes, we have a 2011 MDX with factory tow package - 3.7 L V6 - 300 hp, 5,000 lb tow capacity.

it still lacked enough torque to tow a 21 well.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by Losangeles

except for off roading (we do this) a dually is BAD, for a few reasons.

also diesel adds about 900 lbs that takes away from the GVWR to some degree, and also adds about $9,000 to the cost of the truck, and (a new) diesel engine has maintenance that is possibly more costly over our tried and true 6.2L Gasser

so not one truck fits all.

more into on the topic:

https://www.truckcamperadventure.com...ich-is-better/

[Jeff Thoelke]

I plan to tow my 21NE with my 2008 MDX. That model year MDX has a stock transmission cooler routed through the radiator (other year MDXs may not). So far I've only towed it home from Sumas which doesn't include any mountain passes but it towed easily.

[bpjod]

We have a 2014 Escape 21. At first we towed it with a 2012 VW Touareg TDI. We did many trips and it was an amazing tow vehicle and also an amazing vehicle when not towing. It was a nearly perfect vehicle for our family.

With Dieselgate, our vehicle wasn't on the list of vehicles that had a conversion available, it needed to be 2013+. I figured that future resale might be too risky and also was starting to discover how incredibly painful out of warranty VW repair bills were so I handed over the vehicle, took the (quite fair IMO) payout and bought a 2018 Highlander Ltd.

There are a couple things we like better about the Highlander, but very few. The Touareg was a substantially nicer vehicle in most respects. Importantly to this discussion is how it towed. The Touareg TDI + Escape 21 climbed up mountain passes with plenty of power to spare. I had no problems passing other vehicles on the highway, even while climbing. The Highlander labours and often can't maintain the speed limit even with the accelerator pedal mashed to the floor. The fuel economy difference between the two while towing is also laughable. I also find the seats on the Highlander to be dreadful for long-distance driving, but that is a highly personal issue so you'll have to try that out for yourselves if you're considering a Highlander.

If you can overlook the high out-of-warranty repair bills and the fact that that the executives of VW are lying scumbags that deliberately programmed the vehicles to cheat on emissions testing so they could emit up to 40x the legal amount of nitrogen oxides in the name of profits, then the Touareg TDI is a fantastic towing vehicle. As a former owner of a 2012 Touareg TDI and 2010 Sportwagen TDI (both of which I loved before I knew better, I even thought I was doing the right thing by buying vehicles that were so much more fuel efficient and that emitted less CO2), I know that personally, I'll never give VW another cent. Watch Season 1, Episode 1 of Dirty Money on Netflix if you want a quick overview of Dieselgate. Also know that as time goes on, more and more diesel vehicles by other manufacturers are also being found to have far higher emissions than mandated. VW isn't the only cheater.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

my biggest concern about VWOA products like the Tourareg is the cost of any major repairs... towing puts a lot mroe stress on a vehicle than normal driving, and things like suspension bushings, driveshaft joints, transmissions are going to wear out faster and fail more often. with a tourareg I can't help but think any sort of transmission repair is going to be outrageously expensive.

I agree that all German makes seem to have unreasonable and unreasonably expensive routine maintenance requirements, and that repair can be excessively difficult and expensive. My personal experience with VW products is very limited, but I did compete with a first-generation Rabbit long ago, and I was astounded by the apparently complete disregard of the designers for maintainability. I also sympathize with bpjod's observations about Volkswagen.

On the other hand, the second- and third-generation Touareg uses the HP8 transmission from ZF... the same transmission as used in rear-wheel-drive Chrysler products including the Grand Cherokee and Ram pickups. It's very capable, and not fragile.

[Bluesky]

Originally Posted by bpjod

We have a 2014 Escape 21. At first we towed it with a 2012 VW Touareg TDI. We did many trips and it was an amazing tow vehicle and also an amazing vehicle when not towing. It was a nearly perfect vehicle for our family.

With Dieselgate, our vehicle wasn't on the list of vehicles that had a conversion available, it needed to be 2013+. I figured that future resale might be too risky and also was starting to discover how incredibly painful out of warranty VW repair bills were so I handed over the vehicle, took the (quite fair IMO) payout and bought a 2018 Highlander Ltd.

There are a couple things we like better about the Highlander, but very few. The Touareg was a substantially nicer vehicle in most respects. Importantly to this discussion is how it towed. The Touareg TDI + Escape 21 climbed up mountain passes with plenty of power to spare. I had no problems passing other vehicles on the highway, even while climbing. The Highlander labours and often can't maintain the speed limit even with the accelerator pedal mashed to the floor. The fuel economy difference between the two while towing is also laughable. I also find the seats on the Highlander to be dreadful for long-distance driving, but that is a highly personal issue so you'll have to try that out for yourselves if you're considering a Highlander.

If you can overlook the high out-of-warranty repair bills and the fact that that the executives of VW are lying scumbags that deliberately programmed the vehicles to cheat on emissions testing so they could emit up to 40x the legal amount of nitrogen oxides in the name of profits, then the Touareg TDI is a fantastic towing vehicle. As a former owner of a 2012 Touareg TDI and 2010 Sportwagen TDI (both of which I loved before I knew better, I even thought I was doing the right thing by buying vehicles that were so much more fuel efficient and that emitted less CO2), I know that personally, I'll never give VW another cent. Watch Season 1, Episode 1 of Dirty Money on Netflix if you want a quick overview of Dieselgate. Also know that as time goes on, more and more diesel vehicles by other manufacturers are also being found to have far higher emissions than mandated. VW isn't the only cheater.

Thank you for your input. I am a forgive and forget kind of person so we are good with what their past sins may have been and that won't effect my feelings towards them. I have been test driving them locally and am so impressed with the overall feeling of the Touareg diesel. Also, we have limited options for a SUV that we dont have to crawl up into but can handle the tow. Now the search begins for the perfect Touareg.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Jeff Thoelke

I plan to tow my 21NE with my 2008 MDX. That model year MDX has a stock transmission cooler routed through the radiator (other year MDXs may not). So far I've only towed it home from Sumas which doesn't include any mountain passes but it towed easily.

I was under the impression almost all automobiles with automatic transmissions have the cooler built in the lower part of the radiator as standard, or they used to be that way back in the 60's and 70's.....

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I was under the impression almost all automobiles with automatic transmissions have the cooler built in the lower part of the radiator as standard, or they used to be that way back in the 60's and 70's.....

True as a typical practice ... and still true.

There can still be differences in transmission cooling between vehicles, and between equipment packages on the same vehicle. For instance, in some years of the Toyota Sienna as sold in the U.S., the towing preparation package includes a larger radiator, so while all of them have the same type of transmission cooler (in the cold-side radiator tank as Jim described), the ones with the towing package have more transmission cooling capacity.

There are exceptions, of course. The first-generation Sienna had an optional tranmission cooler, mounted separately from the radiator. My motorhome is built on a Ford SuperDuty F53 chassis (so it is mechanically like an F-550 truck), and the transmission cooler is a small separate radiator mounted in front of the radiator for the engine coolant. Between the engine coolant radiator, transmission fluid cooler, power steering fluid cooler, and air conditioning condensor, it's quite the stack of stuff up there ahead of the fan.

[CamperDude]

Iowa Dave,
Thanks for your dialogue on the 2018 Highlander and the Escape 21. I just purchased a used 2017 Escape 19 and a 2020 Highlander as the tow vehicle. I also installed an Equalizer Weight Distribution Hitch. I have limited experience towing with a 2007 Casita and my 2010 Highlander. I haven’t towed the Escape yet but plan to in the next couple of months. I did a crude measurement of the tongue weight of the 2017 Escape 19 (295 pounds) which came close to the Escape specifications on their web site (290 pounds, 2020 Escape presumably). I don't expect the tow weight of the trailer to exceed 4000 pounds when loaded. I plan to front load the trailer a bit with food and water to get the tongue weight up to about 450 pounds as the unloaded tongue weight (295 pounds) seems to be a bit low using 10 to 15 percent figure for the desired tongue weight. I noted you said your tongue weight was about 500 pounds on your Escape 21. Can you tell me how you generally load your trailer to get your tongue weight near 500 pounds. I have the front storage compartment loaded with the battery and relatively bulky, light items, e.g, outside floor carpet/mats) and a bike rack on the back with two bikes, approximately 100 pounds total on the rear hitch receiver.
Thank you for your insight.
Clay

[cpaharley2008]

One way to impact your tongue weight is via the fresh water tank behind the axles. If too heavy fill up the fresh tank, it will lighten the tongue weight and vice versa. Get yourself the Sherline 1000 lb tongue scale for accurate measurements.

[CamperDude]

Thank you CPHarley,

I appreciate your advice on the scale and tongue weight. At present, I don't have any water in the fresh water tank just behind the axle with a tongue weight of 295 pounds. I don't plan on typically towing with water in the tank behind the axle as I am already a bit light on the tongue.
Thank you for your time and advice.
Clay