Towing Escape 21 v. towing Escape 5.0 TA - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The pin box is a Lippert 1716; it is rated for 15,500 pounds of trailer weight and presumably a couple of tons of pin weight. The real limitation is the trailer's frame. I've never seen a specification from Escape for maximum tongue weight for any model, whether for a conventional trailer or the fifth-wheel; instead, there is a guideline as a fraction of the trailer's gross weight.
According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.

Also, I didn't say there was a stability problem with the 5.0 TA.
Compared to most 5th wheels, where you see a fairly consistent 20% of GVW on the pin, the 5.0TA is pretty light in pin weight. It would be my preference to have a little more on the pin, as that is how I personally would prefer my trailer loaded.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JLModer2 View Post
According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.
Thanks , that's not in Escape's published specs. Presumably the "range" item on the sheet is intended to be a maximum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLModer2 View Post
Also, I didn't say there was a stability problem with the 5.0 TA.
I can only speculate at the possible reasons for wanting more pin weight, because it was not stated. I listed two of them; there may be others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLModer2 View Post
Compared to most 5th wheels, where you see a fairly consistent 20% of GVW on the pin, the 5.0TA is pretty light in pin weight. It would be my preference to have a little more on the pin, as that is how I personally would prefer my trailer loaded.
Yes, it is lower than many fifth-wheel travel trailers. This was discussed in more detail in an earlier thread:
Well Optioned 2nd Gen 5.0TA Pin Weight

My summary comment from that discussion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
A typical 5.0TA in operation (and a base/dry/empty 5.0TA out of the factory) runs about 15% to 17% pin weight, and that seems to be appropriate.
15% to 17% of the gross weight of a 5.0TA loaded to its 5500 GVWR would correspond to 825 to 935 pounds of pin weight.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:08 AM   #23
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21 v. 5.0

What an amazing community of Escape owners! Thanks for sharing all of your insights and in such detail. While this thread initially focused on the differences in towing, feel free to share any other comparisons of the two models. Most likely, this will be our final RV and would like to get it right this time. :-)
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by LoonCall View Post
Most likely, this will be our final RV and would like to get it right this time. :-)


Enjoy,

Perry
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I try to store everything related to the campsite in the trailer. However, it is extremely rare to have anything in the aisle or on the floor of the dinette.
Terry and I are like a well-oiled machine. We can have the rug, Weber grill, cooler, and chairs out of the camper in less than a minute. Doesn't bother us and we've done this many, many times.

OTOH, if we had a huge box on the back, like some here, we wouldn't need anything in the aisle either.

Enjoy,

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Old 11-12-2019, 01:35 PM   #26
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I would suggest you look at both models first and let that be a big part of your decision. If you have the right set up for a tow behind I think the safety factor is equal. What is your camping style? That should also play some in your decision.
No matter which way you go I truly believe if you want a travel trailer and Escape makes a size you like then best trailer in the industry,

Enjoy the journey,
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by JLModer2 View Post
According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.

Also, I didn't say there was a stability problem with the 5.0 TA.
Compared to most 5th wheels, where you see a fairly consistent 20% of GVW on the pin, the 5.0TA is pretty light in pin weight. It would be my preference to have a little more on the pin, as that is how I personally would prefer my trailer loaded.
I don't love the wording of that and can't help but speculate that is the recommended pin weight at GVW, which would be ~16% and what I thought ETI has recommended in the past.

Edit to add I see Brian pretty much already said this. My defense is it takes awhile to process the Canadian accent.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JLModer2 View Post
According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
I don't love the wording of that and can't help but speculate that is the recommended pin weight at GVW, which would be ~16% and what I thought ETI has recommended in the past.
That does make sense.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:35 PM   #29
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Like real estate being about location, location, etc. Towing a fifth wheel is about safety, safety, safety. The experts will show the accident rates with bumper pulls are far higher than with 5th wheels. Capacity and convenience will never carry more weight than safety for us.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by PM15283 View Post
Like real estate being about location, location, etc. Towing a fifth wheel is about safety, safety, safety. The experts will show the accident rates with bumper pulls are far higher than with 5th wheels. Capacity and convenience will never carry more weight than safety for us.
I am assuming there are a lot more bumper pulls around than 5th wheel's, is that why there are more bumper pull accidents? Or are you talking percentages?
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Old 11-21-2019, 11:26 PM   #31
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Trying to locate the statistics, but it's been a long day... Fifth wheels, under nearly all conditions don't sway. Most b.p. trailer accidents start with uncontrolled sway. My comment was strictly referencing percentages, as I agree that there are many more travel trailers on the road.
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Old 11-22-2019, 06:10 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by PM15283 View Post
Trying to locate the statistics, but it's been a long day... Fifth wheels, under nearly all conditions don't sway. Most b.p. trailer accidents start with uncontrolled sway. My comment was strictly referencing percentages, as I agree that there are many more travel trailers on the road.
and single axles are more prone......
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Old 11-22-2019, 08:02 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by PM15283 View Post
Trying to locate the statistics, but it's been a long day... Fifth wheels, under nearly all conditions don't sway. Most b.p. trailer accidents start with uncontrolled sway. My comment was strictly referencing percentages, as I agree that there are many more travel trailers on the road.
Hi: PM15283... It's all in the way you hold your mouth. Our first Escape was a 5th. wheel and our last Escape is a 5th. wheel. Easy come... easy go!!! Alf
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Old 11-22-2019, 10:30 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
A couple of things not mentioned. IF you think you'll ever need to take tug and tow on a water ferry, expect to pay more (sometimes a LOT more) when towing a 5er. Often it's the height that's the gotcha. :
The good news is BC Ferries stop charging for over height a while ago so one will see a per foot savings with the 5er. They do still ask about over height though but it’s simple to determine which deck they are going to put you. on.
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Old 11-22-2019, 12:14 PM   #35
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The good news is BC Ferries stop charging for over height a while ago so one will see a per foot savings with the 5er. They do still ask about over height though but it’s simple to determine which deck they are going to put you. on.
Hi: Fiberglass Fan...NY. state thruway still charges for over height. Must be something to do with damage to the ozone layer!!! Alf
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Old 11-22-2019, 12:27 PM   #36
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The NY Thruway height charge is for anything over 7'6", think we all hit that when towing.
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:30 PM   #37
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i like towing with a fifth wheel better then a bumper pull feels more stable. I've towed many bumper pull horse trailers and goose neck trailers. the goose necks also feel more stable. But i still wouldn't have any issue with the 21 its a nice trailer and probably hauls beautifully. 5th wheels cut in during turns so i turn a bit wider also i think they are a little harder to back at least it takes some getting used to. i have a short bed truck so when doing an extremely sharp turn when backing i have to be careful of i will hit the top of the trailer on the truck cab. i carry lots of light weight stuff in the bed of my truck when towing the 5.0 -rugs,chairs,table etc...the 5.0 can turn very tightly so that can be helpful. i think hitching up the 5.0 is easier then a bumper pull no heavy equalizer bars, i use a small light weight step ladder to reach everything and had my chains put on in reverse so they are attached to the bed make hooking them up very easy.
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Old 11-22-2019, 03:40 PM   #38
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i like towing with a fifth wheel better then a bumper pull feels more stable. I've towed many bumper pull horse trailers and goose neck trailers. the goose necks also feel more stable. But i still wouldn't have any issue with the 21 its a nice trailer and probably hauls beautifully. 5th wheels cut in during turns so i turn a bit wider also i think they are a little harder to back at least it takes some getting used to. i have a short bed truck so when doing an extremely sharp turn when backing i have to be careful of i will hit the top of the trailer on the truck cab. i carry lots of light weight stuff in the bed of my truck when towing the 5.0 -rugs,chairs,table etc...the 5.0 can turn very tightly so that can be helpful. i think hitching up the 5.0 is easier then a bumper pull no heavy equalizer bars, i use a small light weight step ladder to reach everything and had my chains put on in reverse so they are attached to the bed make hooking them up very easy.
Hi: Fox hunt... Alf
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Old 12-18-2019, 01:26 PM   #39
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Chains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox hunt View Post
".... had my chains put on in reverse so they are attached to the bed make hooking them up very easy.

For those of us new to towing, can you explain where chains are attached? Thanks.
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Old 12-18-2019, 06:54 PM   #40
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For those of us new to towing, can you explain where chains are attached? Thanks.
This is how I attached mine. They hook to rings on the pin adapter.
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