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Old 12-11-2021, 11:15 AM   #1
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Toyota to make remote start a subscription

No, not referring to remote start via an app on your phone but a future fee based subscription to use the RF remote start on your keyfob.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/...iption-service

Personally I hope consumer backlash makes toyota (and other car companies considering similar moves) reconsider asinine cash grabs like this.
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Old 12-11-2021, 11:42 AM   #2
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My subscription for my 2020 Highlander lapsed months ago and I have no intention of paying Toyota a monthly fee to maintain the functions. I posted the same on "Toyota Nation".
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Old 12-11-2021, 01:25 PM   #3
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I understand a subscription fee to use a network-based service, but to pay to keep local functions of the vehicle operating is just ridiculous. I would refuse to pay as a matter of principle; I can stick the key in the lock.
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Old 12-11-2021, 01:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal K View Post
No, not referring to remote start via an app on your phone but a future fee based subscription to use the RF remote start on your keyfob.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/...iption-service

Personally I hope consumer backlash makes toyota (and other car companies considering similar moves) reconsider asinine cash grabs like this.
I wouldn't buy a Toyota or any brand that does something like that.
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Old 12-11-2021, 01:38 PM   #5
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The fob still works without a subscription. It's the app that doesn't function. I can point the fob at the car to open the hatch, I just can't start it and idle the engine, wasting gas and polluting ( which is illegal where I live anyway ).
I have no key.
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Old 12-11-2021, 02:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Micheal K View Post
No, not referring to remote start via an app on your phone but a future fee based subscription to use the RF remote start on your keyfob.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/...iption-service

Personally I hope consumer backlash makes toyota (and other car companies considering similar moves) reconsider asinine cash grabs like this.

That’s only for the phone app,..

The key fob will continue working, I wouldn’t buy a new car without this feature.

On a cold day my truck is defrosted and the heated seats are set to go.

It also comes with a great safety feature to prevent theft, much needed.

The thieves cruise around every winter morning looking to see who’s getting ready to go to work.
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Old 12-11-2021, 02:25 PM   #7
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Toyota has always been crafty at extracting the consumer surplus from its customers. To wit, the TRD PRO with special colors always sells at MSRP and lately with an upcharge.

I do not have nor need remote start on my 2020 Toyota 4Runner ORP. I did learn how to run the A/C for the dog on hot summer days. You roll the driver's side window down, auto lock all 4 doors, and auto roll the window up. To unlock the door you have to use the extractable key in the key fob to manually unlock the driver's side door. The key fob will not let you unlock the doors with the engine running so you have to use the extractable key.

Thanks, Ralph Nader.
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Old 12-11-2021, 02:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo View Post
That’s only for the phone app,..

The key fob will continue working, I wouldn’t buy a new car without this feature.
No, they're referring to the remote start function on the physical key fob.
That's why this is generating press coverage.

Here's an image taken from the article, look at the bold print at the bottom.

Admittedly, 10 years is a long time, but guaranteed that once people accept it, the number will become 5 yrs, then 3 yrs... and then, who knows, subscriptions for comfort features like heated seats, or for "extra" gears in the transmission, or to unlock the full power the engine can deliver?
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Old 12-11-2021, 07:01 PM   #9
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There's always a workaround. Although my 2015 Tundra didn't have remote start, leather, dual TRD exhaust...I wanted them. Otherwise I was more than fully satisfied with the options that were already in place!

Remote start: Installed aftermarket (for the dogs in summer and my jeans in winter)
Leather: Installed aftermarket (prefer the feel and look of leather)
Exhaust: Installed TRD exhaust in the driveway with considerable help from a neighbour... plug and play (love the sound)

I'd gone from a crew cab 2009 F150 that was costing in repairs to the Tundra. If you want something beyond the base model, or cheapest model, consider getting the extras aftermarket.

You may be surprised at the quality and the cost. Take that Toyota.
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Old 12-11-2021, 07:41 PM   #10
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There's always a workaround. Although my 2015 Tundra didn't have remote start, leather, dual TRD exhaust...I wanted them. Otherwise I was more than fully satisfied with the options that were already in place!

Remote start: Installed aftermarket (for the dogs in summer and my jeans in winter)
Leather: Installed aftermarket (prefer the feel and look of leather)
Exhaust: Installed TRD exhaust in the driveway with considerable help from a neighbour... plug and play (love the sound)

I'd gone from a crew cab 2009 F150 that was costing in repairs to the Tundra. If you want something beyond the base model, or cheapest model, consider getting the extras aftermarket.

You may be surprised at the quality and the cost. Take that Toyota.

Do yourself a favor and look into the retractable bumper step.
I went with the original equipment part, I was surprised it was close to the same price as Amazon.

Look for the install instructions on the Tundra forum, it’s the method where you’ll need a handheld metal grinder, the work is all done underneath the bumper.

One little notch will save you all the hassle and time in the world.
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Old 12-12-2021, 09:56 AM   #11
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These businesses & manufacturers just want to turn all of us consumers into a long term revenue stream. Many software companies started doing it years ago. Moving away from lifetime licenses and into pay per month/annual licenses for their software. I'm surprised Toyota has taken so long to come up with this type of recurring pay service.

I had a problem with GM and their OnStar subscription service way back in 2006. We bought a new 2006 Saturn Vue for my wife back then and it came with a 1yr complimentary subscription to OnStar. The primary thing we received that was useful was email notices about the status of the vehicle i.e., mileage, upcoming maintenance, computer codes, etc. After a year I got a call from an OnStar salesperson while we were on a road trip to visit family. My subscription was expiring and they wanted $10/month to keep it going.

I bet I talked to that salesperson for like 30 min. I told them it wasn't worth it to me to pay $10 month for their service that provided me with information that I was fully capable of getting on my own. At the time I owned a stand alone GPS, an OBD II code reader and cell phones and all of those items provided vastly better information than their built-in OnStar which was voice only. They tried to use the scare tactic of "what if you're in a wreck and unconscious, OnStar will send help?". Well, I live in town and 99.99% of my driving is in traffic so the chances of my being in an event like they described where nobody can call for help is about as good as my winning the lottery. The salesperson started bargaining with me and asked me what the service would be worth to me and I told them $1 a month. They offered me a short 1yr term contract for that amount and I told them it had to be a lifetime contract or nothing. They informed me that they weren't authorized to issue lifetime contracts and that was the end of our phone call.

We still own that Saturn, my 22 yr old daughter drives it now. I can honestly say I'm happy that GM did not accept my lifetime $1 month offer.
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Old 12-12-2021, 01:24 PM   #12
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There is a huge difference between OnStar, which is a network service that costs GM to operate, and functionality of the vehicle itself (such as remote start from the fob).
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Old 12-12-2021, 01:53 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
There is a huge difference between OnStar, which is a network service that costs GM to operate, and functionality of the vehicle itself (such as remote start from the fob).

I wasn't attempting to equate the functionality of OnStar and Toyota's system which by the way is not free for Toyota to operate either.

My comparison was about manufacturers that want to have their hand in my pocket every month for the life of a product.
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Old 12-12-2021, 04:03 PM   #14
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My comparison was about manufacturers that want to have their hand in my pocket every month for the life of a product.

Automotive OEMs all think they're going to generate a lot of revenue this way, but I'm pretty skeptical.


- People hate ongoing subscriptions for things, unless it is a clear service like cell coverage or electricity. Even then, nobody loves it.
- I don't think there are really a bunch of killer apps that they are going to put into cars. I can live without remote start or whatever.
- The really killer apps (like autonomous driving) are a lot further from reality than people want to accept.


I mean, I guess they could make it so the windows go down for free but you have to pay a subscription to get them to go up again. But you can only abuse customers so much before they won't buy your crappy product.


GM thought OnStar was going to be a huge revenue stream. Most customers dump it after the free period. It does literally nothing than can't do with my cell phone......at least nothing I want.
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Old 12-12-2021, 05:27 PM   #15
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The thread seems to have slipped into a confusing apples vs oranges discussion.

The OP is about a feature which has, up to now, operated solely with local RF communication between the vehicle and a fob without any action or support required from anything the manufacturer must maintain on their end. The feature, as demonstrated by historic data, can be reliably implemented with 'stand-alone' technology.

Toyota has now elected to intervene in that, introducing the need for active participation by non-local systems (with attendant cost to them for which they require compensation). Again, based on historic data, there's absolutely no functional need for that intervention from the standpoint of user enjoyment of this specific feature.

IOW Toyota has chosen to complicate a feature that formerly worked just fine without any ongoing involvement by their own maintained systems (non-local communications, servers, etc), purely for the sake of revenue generation (the user, insofar as this specific feature, gains nothing by that change). It's as if Toyota had added a system to support a "paywall" between the hard-wired headlight switch and the headlights.

That's very different from and IMO should be kept separate from discussions of functions which have and will always require support of systems (non-local communications, servers, etc) maintained by the manufacturer with attendant ongoing cost to them (e.g. some OnStar functions, some Ford Pass Connected Services functions, real-time traffic info, etc).
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Old 12-13-2021, 11:09 AM   #16
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When Adobe made their subscription model, I started using alternatives. Shame on Toyota.
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Old 12-14-2021, 02:37 AM   #17
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When Adobe made their subscription model, I started using alternatives. Shame on Toyota.
I ditched Quicken when they went to subscription, but it's more understandable in the case of software (in which the purchase is really just a license to use) than it is for a vehicle (in which the purchase actually buying the product).
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Old 12-14-2021, 05:32 AM   #18
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As a satisfied owner of 2 reliable Toyotas, I find their desire to make auto start a thing you have to pay for disgusting. In the future will either switch brands, install an aftermarket remote start, or start it the way I do now by going out in the cold.
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Old 12-14-2021, 05:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I ditched Quicken when they went to subscription, but it's more understandable in the case of software (in which the purchase is really just a license to use) than it is for a vehicle (in which the purchase actually buying the product).
Brian- did you find a good alternative to Quicken? When I bought my MacBook Air recently I discovered that my old version of Quicken would not run under the Air's new OS. I bit the bullet and "subscribed" to new Quicken but I'll ditch it if I can find something else that will work.

I did just that with my Adobe products. I moved to Capture One for photo stuff, which allows a one-time purchase, and I replaced Adobe Acrobat Pro with PDF Reader Pro. Capture One has a steep learning curve but so far, so good.

As for subscriptions related to cars, I hope Congress kills this nonsense. It could be construed as a safety issue in some cases.
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Old 12-14-2021, 07:28 AM   #20
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Brian- did you find a good alternative to Quicken? When I bought my MacBook Air recently I discovered that my old version of Quicken would not run under the Air's new OS. I bit the bullet and "subscribed" to new Quicken but I'll ditch it if I can find something else that will work.

I did just that with my Adobe products. I moved to Capture One for photo stuff, which allows a one-time purchase, and I replaced Adobe Acrobat Pro with PDF Reader Pro. Capture One has a steep learning curve but so far, so good.

As for subscriptions related to cars, I hope Congress kills this nonsense. It could be construed as a safety issue in some cases.
I use Quicken 2016, and Lightroom 6.2.11, the last standalone versions of each software. I'm not paying subscriptions.
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