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Old 05-21-2020, 09:37 PM   #1
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Weighing a Tacoma and 19 GVWR with WD Hitch

I have a new Tacoma and a new 19' and I thought it would make sense to weigh the mostly packed trailer and truck as a baseline.

I went to a Cat Scale and positioned the truck on the first scale and the trailer on the second. In retrospect I think I actually want the truck axles on the first and second and the trailer on the third, but the weight master said I was setup right, so I just went with it.

The numbers I got back were 5420 lbs for the first scale (truck) and 3760 lbs for the second scale (trailer).

I was really surprised to see the truck so high and the trailer so low. I was thinking 5000 lbs for the truck and 4000 lbs for the trailer.

Question 1: I barely have anything in the bed of the truck, but it's really close to the Truck's GVWR of 5600 lbs. The curb weight of the truck is 4495 lbs and I had maybe 400 lbs of cargo including myself. The only thing I can think of is that the weight distribution hitch is transferring weight to the truck? This certainly makes sense...but

Question 2 if this is the case, and the WD hitch pushes the weight of the truck towards the GVWR limit is this safe? Perhaps I am misusing the concept of GVWR of the tow vehicle when hooked up on a scale? I am under the GCWR by 20% so I feel better about that.

I suppose the obvious answer is I should weight the truck without the trailer, but that will have to wait for another time.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:26 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianp12 View Post
I have a new Tacoma and a new 19' and I thought it would make sense to weigh the mostly packed trailer and truck as a baseline.

I went to a Cat Scale and positioned the truck on the first scale and the trailer on the second. In retrospect I think I actually want the truck axles on the first and second and the trailer on the third, but the weight master said I was setup right, so I just went with it.

The numbers I got back were 5420 lbs for the first scale (truck) and 3760 lbs for the second scale (trailer).

I was really surprised to see the truck so high and the trailer so low. I was thinking 5000 lbs for the truck and 4000 lbs for the trailer.

Question 1: I barely have anything in the bed of the truck, but it's really close to the Truck's GVWR of 5600 lbs. The curb weight of the truck is 4495 lbs and I had maybe 400 lbs of cargo including myself. The only thing I can think of is that the weight distribution hitch is transferring weight to the truck? This certainly makes sense...but

Question 2 if this is the case, and the WD hitch pushes the weight of the truck towards the GVWR limit is this safe? Perhaps I am misusing the concept of GVWR of the tow vehicle when hooked up on a scale? I am under the GCWR by 20% so I feel better about that.

I suppose the obvious answer is I should weight the truck without the trailer, but that will have to wait for another time.
Before my current rig (Tundra pulling a 5.0) I had a 2016 Tacoma Sport pulling a 2013 19. Your numbers look about right to me. I loved the Tacoma! A wonderful multi-purpose truck. But its Achilles heel was its payload. I always had to be mindful of what I carried in the bed while towing. I ended up putting a few heavier items like my portable solar panel in the trailer to balance the load.

Good on you for gathering real world weights of your setup! Too many folks skip that important step.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:28 AM   #3
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Welcome to our community, Adrian. I'm fairly new here myself, and find the conversations on the site interesting and informative.

I went through much the same mental gymnastics with my setup recently, and I'll compare notes with yours. For the record, my tow vehicle is a Nissan Frontier V6 4x4 King Cab with a Leer canopy over the bed. My trailer is a "new to me" 2009 first generation Escape 19. My truck is the functional equivalent of yours, just a different label on the tailgate. Information in the literature and on this site indicates that the first gen 19 should have a dry weight of about 800 to 1,000 pounds less than the newer gen 19, depending on the options added to the individual trailers.

While my trailer came equipped with a WDH, I have an air bag suspension installed on the truck, and prefer the ride and handling of that over the WDH. My WDH alone weighs 60 lbs. The truck canopy has a listed weight of 198 lbs.

With a half tank of fuel and driver (me) aboard,my truck weighs 4780 lbs. Listed GVWR per the factory sticker is 5690. My trailer, with dual 6V batteries, two full 20 lb. propane tanks and Escape installed air conditioner, plus a light load of cooking utensils, tools and bedding, but with no liquids, personal gear or food aboard, weighs 3300 lbs. Tongue weight came to 418 lbs. (12.7% of total trailer weight). My combined weight is thus 8080.

It appears to me that our combined total weights are reasonable, but I am a little surprised at how much trailer weight seems to be transferred to your truck by the WDH. I have not weighed my combination with the WDH in place so I don't have any numbers for that. Perhaps someone with some engineering knowledge can weigh in (sorry for the pun) on whether your high number for your tow vehicle weight makes sense or not.

Regarding your first question, yes the WDH is transferring some of the trailer weight to the truck. That is its specific purpose. The idea is to level the truck and trailer, put more weight on the front axle of the truck to improve emergency braking, and to provide an improved ride. There seems to be a great deal of debate as to how effective the hitch is at accomplishing these goals. As I mentioned above, I am currently using air bags, which level the truck and trailer, but do not transfer trailer weight to the front axle of the truck.

As for your second question, the most important thing to remember is that while your tow vehicle is designed to carry the load you have put on it, as a loaded vehicle, it will not perform and handle as well as when it is unladen, and you need to always keep that in mind . Always think ahead of the vehicle and give yourself lots of reaction time and maneuvering room. Its never going to be a sports car, but it is safe if you know and stay within the limits of the combination.

I enjoyed thinking through this issue again. Thanks for posting.

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Old 05-22-2020, 06:31 AM   #4
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Do you know your tongue weight adrianp12? A good tongue scale- Sherline will allow you to measure your tongue weight unhooked and then again hooked up to determine how much weight has been shifted by the w/d set up.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007REJTGI...osi&th=1&psc=1
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:03 AM   #5
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A properly adjusted WDH transfers the tongue weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle, AND the trailer axle. In other words, it will increase the trailer axle weight.

I generally weight as you described in retrospect, i.e. each truck axle on its own scale & the trailer on the third. Then park the trailer & do a second weighing of the individual truck axles. The second weighing is only a couple of bucks...

For example, my last weighing (No WDH, both trailer & truck fully loaded for a 7 month trip)

With Trailer Attached
Steer Axle 3080
Rear Axle 3420
Trailer Axle 4320
TOTAL 10820

Truck Alone
Steer Axle 3300
Rear Axle 2660
Truck Total 5960

So:
Trailer 4860
Tongue 540

As to the Tacoma, I was OK with my 17 for payload (but just) and well over with a 21.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:05 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Do you know your tongue weight adrianp12? A good tongue scale- Sherline will allow you to measure your tongue weight unhooked and then again hooked up to determine how much weight has been shifted by the w/d set up.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007REJTGI...osi&th=1&psc=1
I do not, will definitely get one!
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:34 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
A properly adjusted WDH transfers the tongue weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle, AND the trailer axle. In other words, it will increase the trailer axle weight.

I generally weight as you described in retrospect, i.e. each truck axle on its own scale & the trailer on the third. Then park the trailer & do a second weighing of the individual truck axles. The second weighing is only a couple of bucks...

For example, my last weighing (No WDH, both trailer & truck fully loaded for a 7 month trip)

With Trailer Attached
Steer Axle 3080
Rear Axle 3420
Trailer Axle 4320
TOTAL 10820

Truck Alone
Steer Axle 3300
Rear Axle 2660
Truck Total 5960

So:
Trailer 4860
Tongue 540

As to the Tacoma, I was OK with my 17 for payload (but just) and well over with a 21.
I like your method, makes sense and then the tongue weight and trailer weight are just calculations. I had no idea the front axle would have more weight unhooked! Makes sense I guess. Next time I weigh my setup I will do with and without WD hitch to see how effective the transfer is.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by arniesea View Post
Before my current rig (Tundra pulling a 5.0) I had a 2016 Tacoma Sport pulling a 2013 19. Your numbers look about right to me. I loved the Tacoma! A wonderful multi-purpose truck. But its Achilles heel was its payload. I always had to be mindful of what I carried in the bed while towing. I ended up putting a few heavier items like my portable solar panel in the trailer to balance the load.

Good on you for gathering real world weights of your setup! Too many folks skip that important step.
Perhaps I too will end up with a Tundra down the line! I don't love trending towards to GVWR of the Tacoma.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianp12 View Post
I like your method, makes sense and then the tongue weight and trailer weight are just calculations. I had no idea the front axle would have more weight unhooked! Makes sense I guess. Next time I weigh my setup I will do with and without WD hitch to see how effective the transfer is.
With a properly adjusted WDH, it would not be as much more, ideally, the same hooked or unhooked.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by George Johnson View Post
...
Information in the literature and on this site indicates that the first gen 19 should have a dry weight of about 800 to 1,000 pounds less than the newer gen 19, depending on the options added to the individual trailers.
...
Second gen 19 is definitely heavier and while it depends which years you're comparing, even the worst case isn't 800 lbs.

Dry weights of the 19' (used the wayback machine to confirm the older numbers):
2009 (Nov): 2510 lbs
2016 (Mar) : 2610 lbs
2017: 2950 lbs
2020: 3150 lbs

So the difference in weight at the transition (2016 to 2017) was 340 lbs.
Worst case is looking at the current model and comparing to 2009, so 640 lbs, but the current model now includes extra insulation and thermal windows as a standard feature.

Others here will better know the details, but I think the main difference between 2009 and 2016 was a stronger frame. Not sure why 2017 was so much heavier than 2016 but part of it is a wider frame and a roof layup to support AC as a standard feature. I suspect the structure to attach and properly support the cantilevered electric awning added quite a bit of weight too.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:42 PM   #11
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One thing I've noticed in this thread, as well as others, is that owners seem to consistently underestimate their true trailer weights. I have yet to see anyone make the comment, "Gee, it's lighter than I thought!"

I remember fantasizing that my trailer would come in at something around 3000 lbs, or about 50% of the rated towing capacity of my tow vehicle. Not a chance--as it now sits, its at 3300, and when on the road, I expect it will be in the range of 3500 to 3700 lbs. The truth hurts, but not knowing the truth can hurt even worse.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:46 PM   #12
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I believe a lot of people would be surprised with the results if they weighed their rigs by how close they are to exceeding their GVWR. Many just look at the tow rating and assume that a tow rating of 5000# means they can go ahead and tow any trailer that weighs less than that, without considering the payload of their tow vehicle. (Let’s skip any discussion of safety factors, engine wear & tear, etc.) Axle ratings need to be paid attention to, too. My F150 has a GVWR of 7600# - with each axle rated at 3800#.

Here are screen shots from an interesting video showing the difference between using airbags and using a WDH. Airbags only compensate for spring compression, and so do little in the way of weight distribution.

The first image is the base truck (fitted with airbags) and a trailer with a 1000# tongue weight. The other weights are the axle weights (combined weight on the trailer’s tandem axles).

The second image shows the weights at each axle – the top with airbags at 5psi and using a WDH, and the bottom with airbags at 55psi (the pressure needed to bring the truck to level) and no WDH.

The video: https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg
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File Type: jpg Airbag vs WDH.jpg (85.4 KB, 20 views)
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by George Johnson View Post
One thing I've noticed in this thread, as well as others, is that owners seem to consistently underestimate their true trailer weights. I have yet to see anyone make the comment, "Gee, it's lighter than I thought!"
Not sure if you're referring to my previous post or not but I was only responding to your comment on the difference in dry weights between gen 1 and gen 2.

Agree that everyone should know what their trailer weighs and that adding features and loading it up will make it much heavier than the dry weight. Best is to do like the OP and load up and go to a weigh station. (I have done this too.)
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:03 PM   #14
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Not sure if you're referring to my previous post or not but I was only responding to your comment on the difference in dry weights between gen 1 and gen 2.

Agree that everyone should know what their trailer weighs and that adding features and loading it up will make it much heavier than the dry weight. Best is to do like the OP and load up and go to a weigh station. (I have done this too.)
While I always stop at a nearby CAT scale since our local transfer station started charging for weighing even if you are not dumping, consider what you "pick up" on a long trip. Before & after weighings:

When I left:

With Trailer
Front Axle 3080
Rear Axe 3360
Trailer Axle 4200

Total Truck & Trailer 10,640

Truck Alone 5940

Trailer 4700
Tongue 500



When I returned home after 6 months:

With trailer
Front Axle 2980
Rear Axle 3620
Trailer Axle 4440
Truck & Trailer 11040

Truck Alone
Front Axle 3200
Rear Axle 2820
Total 6020

Tongue 580
Trailer 5020, 20 pounds over GVWR

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Old 05-22-2020, 04:14 PM   #15
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Big problem Tacoma is payload. the weight distribution hitch is 98-135lbs . escape fast weight e-2 right about 98lbs all that weight is behind the axle. its surprising how quick the paylaod can add up, 2 people and a dog and 400 lbs of tough weight. and maybe truck cap. I holding of on the WDH untill i tow the trailer with out and see how it feels. I think any weight it moves to the front axle would not be enough to offset the weight it adds to the back axle . Of couse i will have to weigh it so i sure i not over loading the Tacoma rear axle
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Old 05-23-2020, 08:02 AM   #16
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Perhaps I too will end up with a Tundra down the line! I don't love trending towards to GVWR of the Tacoma.
I would recommend the upgrade to the Tundra. Not only for payload, but for power. I actually get about the same mileage towing with the Tundra as I did with the Tacoma. This is because the Tundra with the 5.7 L V-8 has the torque and power to stay in higher gears. Therefore the engine is generally running at lower RPMs.

The Tacoma has much better MPG unloaded, however when towing I averaged 11.5 MPG because it would often be in the 3,000-4,000 RPM range while pulling grades or fighting headwinds. Whereas my Tundra cruises in tow-haul mode at 1,500-2,000 RPM all day long except for the steepest grades. And this is towing the 5.0 TA with a GVWR of 5,500 pounds!

(If you can swing it, this is a great time to buy. Auto dealers are hurting so are more willing to negotiate a favorable price.)
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Old 05-23-2020, 08:23 AM   #17
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This is so true, sometimes my Ram is in the "Eco" mode while towing, that means it has cut back to 4 cyl for economy. Here are a couple of shots towing the E19 home from the factory, avg 15 towing and the specs on trans mission and other vitals.....
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File Type: jpg IMG_1293.jpg (157.9 KB, 10 views)
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:59 PM   #18
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Real world experience

First, thanks for all of the replies, super helpful.

I just returned from a trip crossing the North Cascades Highway. The 2020 stock Tacoma and loaded 2019 19 did pretty well! Everything felt solid and controlled.

I averaged about 15-16 mpg on I-5 and about 12-13 over the pass. I towed in ECT mode in S4 and kept things at 60 on flat grades or 50-55 on the pass itself, with a couple of steeper sections at 45 either due to grade, traffic, or corners. Im probably a more conservative driver than most. If I were more aggressive I could easily see 8-9 over the pass.

I monitored my transmission temps with a Scangauge and typically cruised at 190, but spiked to 210 accelerating in 3rd on a steep grade just to see how it felt. Weather was high 50s, low 60s.

I think my impression of the 3rd gen Tacoma pulling a 19 is similar to most on the forum - it does the job, but a 1/2 would be more optimal. Of course I prefer the Tacoma day to day, so probably wont switch anytime soon.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianp12 View Post
First, thanks for all of the replies, super helpful.

I just returned from a trip crossing the North Cascades Highway. The 2020 stock Tacoma and loaded 2019 19 did pretty well! Everything felt solid and controlled.

I averaged about 15-16 mpg on I-5 and about 12-13 over the pass. I towed in ECT mode in S4 and kept things at 60 on flat grades or 50-55 on the pass itself, with a couple of steeper sections at 45 either due to grade, traffic, or corners. Im probably a more conservative driver than most. If I were more aggressive I could easily see 8-9 over the pass.

I monitored my transmission temps with a Scangauge and typically cruised at 190, but spiked to 210 accelerating in 3rd on a steep grade just to see how it felt. Weather was high 50s, low 60s.

I think my impression of the 3rd gen Tacoma pulling a 19 is similar to most on the forum - it does the job, but a 1/2 would be more optimal. Of course I prefer the Tacoma day to day, so probably wont switch anytime soon.
Awesome stats, Patrick! Since your Taco is your daily driver, it makes sense to stay with that setup. I moved to the Tundra and 5.0 on full retirement. I use my wifes hybrid Camry or my bicycle for errands.

Enjoy your new Escape!
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Old 05-26-2020, 05:42 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by adrianp12 View Post
First, thanks for all of the replies, super helpful.

I just returned from a trip crossing the North Cascades Highway. The 2020 stock Tacoma and loaded 2019 19 did pretty well! Everything felt solid and controlled.

I averaged about 15-16 mpg on I-5 and about 12-13 over the pass. I towed in ECT mode in S4 and kept things at 60 on flat grades or 50-55 on the pass itself, with a couple of steeper sections at 45 either due to grade, traffic, or corners. Im probably a more conservative driver than most. If I were more aggressive I could easily see 8-9 over the pass.

I monitored my transmission temps with a Scangauge and typically cruised at 190, but spiked to 210 accelerating in 3rd on a steep grade just to see how it felt. Weather was high 50s, low 60s.

I think my impression of the 3rd gen Tacoma pulling a 19 is similar to most on the forum - it does the job, but a 1/2 would be more optimal. Of course I prefer the Tacoma day to day, so probably wont switch anytime soon.

wow thats good mileage. also did you use a WDH?
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