Weights and Balance for 5.0TA and Canyon

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by emers382

Kent do you know if that 100 lbs less for the Andersen includes the pin box attachment and chains, or just the hitch itself?

I suggest asking Andersen about the weight of the specific combination of Andersen Ultimate components which you are considering. Keep in mind..

• there are steel and aluminum versions of the main frame
• you need to include the rails and frame brackets (if using rail mount), or the "gooseneck" under-bed ball hitch (if using the "gooseneck" version), for both Andersen Ultimate and conventional fifth-wheel installations
• safety chains are not included with any Andersen Ultimate package - they are extra weight (and cost).

To assume a single specific weight difference makes a lot of assumptions about both the Andersen Ultimate configuration and the fifth-wheel chosen for comparison.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I suggest asking Andersen about the weight of the specific combination of Andersen Ultimate components which you are considering. Keep in mind..

• there are steel and aluminum versions of the main frame
• you need to include the rails and frame brackets (if using rail mount), or the "gooseneck" under-bed ball hitch (if using the "gooseneck" version), for both Andersen Ultimate and conventional fifth-wheel installations
• safety chains are not included with any Andersen Ultimate package - they are extra weight (and cost).

To assume a single specific weight difference makes a lot of assumptions about both the Andersen Ultimate configuration and the fifth-wheel chosen for comparison.

My Anderson hitch itself is about 40 lbs. The coupler is prob 5, chains another 5. I installed the bed rails in my Toyota Tundra and used a custom fitted kit...maybe 50 lbs...so a total weight of everything of 100 lbs is not out of range. If you are the type that obsesses over weights you will want to look it up but also realize that a standard 5th wheel hitch uses the rails and then adds another 150lbs min for the hitch.

[cpaharley2008]

These numbers seem heavy, adding the trailer weight and pin weight gives you 5700# and the GVWR is 5500# according to ETI? Was the trailer weight taken while hooked up or separate?

[Bobnjudy]

If you're going to use an Andersen Ultimate mounted on rails in a short bed Canyon/Colorado you'll need the offset version of the hitch frame.
The center of the axle is 39" from the tailgate. For turning clearance, move the center of the rails separation back 7" toward the tailgate so that the center of the rails is now 32" from the tailgate.
The short bias of the hitch frame will also be toward the tailgate and the Andersen receiver over the kingpin will be installed swiveled toward the camper.
If you want pictures, please send me your email in a PM and I'll get those 8 shots to you.
I've had zero problems towing as this truck can handle the 700# weight of the camper on the bed and have 900# left over. Moving the rail center 7" further back of the axle center is necessary unless you want to lug around a sliding hitch and deal with all that that entails. When we're home from a trip the hitch frame comes right out and all that's left are the low profile rails in the bed.
Happy camping, Bob

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by JeffNY

Test drove some Colorado and Canyons this week. But I read there is supposed to be a mid-cycle refresh of these trucks this year and the 2019’s may offer some new things and a new diesel…so I may wait until later this year to see what comes before buying.

With no emission regulation changes, and an existing diesel engine that has only been in production (in this form) for a couple of years, a new diesel engine seems unlikely. The Colorado/Canyon could get the recently-announced diesel from the 2019 Silverado/Sierra, but that seems unlikely to me for two reasons; it would remove a differentiation between the mid-sized and full-sized trucks, and it probably won't fit the mid-size.

Was there something published which suggests a new diesel for the Colorado/Canyon?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

These numbers seem heavy, adding the trailer weight and pin weight gives you 5700# and the GVWR is 5500# according to ETI? Was the trailer weight taken while hooked up or separate?

I don't think there's a problem...

Originally Posted by gmchamplin

These are the weights:
o 3,885 lbs -- Standard empty weight (without options, from ETI web site)
o 4,286 lbs -- Empty weight of my trailer (from nameplate)
o 4,940 lbs -- Measured weight of trailer
o 5,460 lbs -- Measured weight of truck alone
o 760 lbs -- Measured weight of kingpin on truck

This gives 15.4% of the trailer weight on the kingpin.

760 pounds (the king pin weight) is 15.4% of 4,940 pounds (the "measured weight of trailer"), so that 4,940 pounds is presumably the total trailer weight (GVW), not just the axle load.

[Kent]

Originally Posted by emers382

Kent do you know if that 100 lbs less for the Andersen includes the pin box attachment and chains, or just the hitch itself?

Adrian

Adrian, I'm comparing just the hitch and the part or parts you can remove from the bed of truck. I did not include chains or components that the 5th wheel hitch mounts to.

As others have stated, take the information offered on the forum and do your own research and do what works for you. I choose the Anderson as that is what will work for me.

Keep in mine, GM likely never imagine anyone would be towing a 5th wheel with the Colorado/Canyon and why at least when I did my research you could not find custom frame brackets made for this platform like you can for full size trucks.

Cheers

[JeffNY]

Thanks Everyone, really good info that very helpful to me, as I plan out maybe buying a 5.0 TA and truck.

Brian, if you google “2019 Chevy Colorado [or GMC Canyon]” several of the GM sites are reporting a rumor of “an all-new 2.7L Twin-Turbo I-4“ and several other things for the ’19. My guess is with the all new Dodge [Edit: "RAM"] 1500 and the Ford Ranger (and their own all new Silverado) coming GM wants to cover all their bases and keep their two mid-size trucks appealing as they can. I must say, as someone who owned full size trucks in the past (and who currently owns a ’17 Chevy Volt Premier) I was really impressed with the Colorado and Canyon (and the diesel option!). Of course the dealers tried to get me into a “full size”….but test driving the (big boat) Sierra after the Canyon it reminded me why I switched to a car….just too big, and burns too much gas. Maybe if all you did was interstate driving I might see how the bigger truck might be nice, but the rest of the time the size of the Colorado and Canyon about perfect it seems.

Thanks again everyone,
Jeff-

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by JeffNY

Brian, if you google “2019 Chevy Colorado [or GMC Canyon]” several of the GM sites are reporting a rumor of “an all-new 2.7L Twin-Turbo I-4“ and several other things for the ’19.

That would presumably be a turbo four gasoline engine, another variant of the Gen III Ecotec line that is currently used without a turbo as the Colorado/Canyon's base engine and by many GM models in both turbo (at 2.0 L) and non-turbo (at 2.5 L) variants, not another diesel. The Ecotec engine (in turbo form) is directly comparable to the 2.3 L EcoBoost announced for the Ford Ranger.

Based on comments in this forum and FiberglassRV about the new Ranger, a gas 2.7 L turbo four-cylinder will not be a popular choice for towing a travel trailer.

In automotive marketing-speak "all-new" means not exactly the same as anything currently sold with the same label; it essentially never means that it is entirely new.

[phalaney]

Keep in mine, GM likely never imagine anyone would be towing a 5th wheel with the Colorado/Canyon and why at least when I did my research you could not find custom frame brackets made for this platform like you can for full size trucks.


Kent, IMO, they wanted to have it both ways. A degree of deniability if there were any problems, but the additional sales as well. Unless I overlooked something, they do not say in print that they do NOT allow 5th wheel towing, as they specifically rule against truck mounted campers (hope you correct me if I missed it). And in 2016, 2017, and early 2018, "Build your own's" they even included an optional, aftermarket, 5th wheel hitch lock. I think they hipped up a few months ago, and pulled it from even the archival versions. But if you point out the fact that Colorado/Canyon 5th wheel towing is not described and spec'd in the GM trailer towing guide, as it is for the big trucks, well, you got me there.

I'm getting my first dealer service with hitch rails installed Friday and I'm curious to see if they mention anything. Not terribly worried though...

[JeffNY]

>>Keep in mine, GM likely never imagine anyone would be towing a 5th wheel with the Colorado/Canyon<<

Well, remember, versions of this same truck are in use around the world, where people actually use them as "trucks" to haul stuff with, I have seen interviews with GM engineers, they are VERY aware how people use these trucks to the limits...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9I6PIjt3Ok

[Bobnjudy]

2019 Ford Ranger Spy Shots Show Chevy Colorado Rival | GM Authority

[salmo7000]

Having finally made a decision on a tow rig for a future 5.0TA, which for us was a Ford F-150 with the 2.7 liter ecoboost gas engine, I test drove one a couple of weeks ago. Although I loved the truck, I had less than a positive experience with the dealer when I asked about ordering one with the spec's I wanted. They weren't keen to make a deal, and they really wanted me to buy the 3.5 liter truck they already had on the lot. The costs they were quoting for both were exceeding what I wanted to pay. So just to keep options open, I walked into the local Chevy dealer, who happened to have a 2017 Duramax Colorado 4X4 sitting on their lot, and I test drove it. I asked about any changes in store for 2019, and they said none for the Duramax until the 2020 model year. To make a long story short, I liked the truck as well as the F-150, the dealer made a ridiculous offer I could not refuse, so I ended up walking off with it. All I can say is sometimes it pays to be flexible and willing to change one's mind, right?!! Understanding that a 5.0 TA is at the upper limits of capability for this vehicle, we're now considering the 19-footer instead, but haven't made a decision either way. We took the truck on a 450-mile road trip last week to break it in (not towing) and loved everything about it. Especially the 29.1 mpg it averaged, even climbing up and down mountain passes at 65 mph. The rpm's staying well below 2,000 when climbing those 8% grades was nothing short of amazing. So no regrets, at least not yet! Based on what I've read here I think we'll be OK with a 5.0 TA if we closely watch our weight and payload, but I'll be interested in continuing to read about others' experiences and thoughts towing both the 5.0 TA and 19-footer with this vehicle (or the GMC Canyon), so keep them coming!! We'll be making our trailer decision no sooner than mid summer.

[cpaharley2008]

If I could make a fantastic deal I'd get the same truck. that said, you would have no issue with the 21 or 19 Escape as the tongue weight will be in the 4-500 lb weight for both. The pin weight of the 5.0 I believe is 2-300 more lbs and that is the limiting factor. I was all set for the 5.0 but at he last minute went for the 19. Why pull an extra 1000 lbs around plus lose the bed use. My Hemi Ram can pull a lot but only carry 1300 lbs.

[Bobnjudy]

You'll have no problem towing the 4200# TA with the diesel. The 3.6 gas (my current one) will do it but with poor mileage (14.6). The 700# "tongue" weight on a Andersen Ultimate isn't a big deal for it's payload of 1650#. Resale of a diesel 4WD over the small motor 150 is also a consideration. If you got the 5' bed, see the post re. where to mount the hitch rails.
You won't have to worry about weight or payload, just the envious looks from your fellow campers.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bobnjudy

The 700# "tongue" weight on a Andersen Ultimate isn't a big deal for it's payload of 1650#.
...
You won't have to worry about weight or payload, just the envious looks from your fellow campers.

With nothing but the trailer, there's certainly no payload issue; however...

Originally Posted by gmchamplin

This also gives a gross weight for the truck plus kingpin of 6,220 pounds, compared to the GVWR on the doorpost decal of 6,200

Gary's rig is over GVWR (meaning that the available payload has all been used, and more). Weight and running out of payload is certainly a potential issue to be aware of... with most trucks, including a Colorado/Canyon.

[Kent]

Originally Posted by salmo7000

so I ended up walking off with it.

Congrats, one thing I noticed right away on mine was the lack of diesel fuel smell, None! Thought there would be some, but have not smelled any.

Drives great!

[salmo7000]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

With nothing but the trailer, there's certainly no payload issue; however...

Gary's rig is over GVWR (meaning that the available payload has all been used, and more). Weight and running out of payload is certainly a potential issue to be aware of... with most trucks, including a Colorado/Canyon.

Yeah for sure payload capacity was one consideration that turned me away from the Colorado in the first place, but I liked the truck so much I reconsidered. That's why we're now thinking about the 19-footer. But really, "we" are 2 normal sized adults, each weighing well under 200 lbs, and not much would be in the truck other than us, 2 dogs weighing about 35-lbs each, a couple of cups of coffee, a few odds and ends such as phones, dog leashes, seat covers, etc. and nothing in the bed of the truck but the hitch. That's why even with the 700+ lb pin weight of the 5.0 TA I think we would be under the GVWR. But it definitely does limit the options for gear. And I said at the outset I didn't want to be tooling down the highway worrying about whether I should empty the holding tanks because of payload limitations. But that's the tradeoff of getting this truck. Can we have it all?? Always the question of balancing efficiency versus capability! As others have reported, they are making it work with the 5.0 TA. I am a lifelong backpacker and rafter and have dealt with weights and balance tradeoffs nearly all of my adult life. I originally didn't want to have to worry about that, but having made the decision on the Colorado, I guess I'll have to if we go with the 5.0 TA. The 19-footer, not so much. So it goes!

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Bobnjudy

You'll have no problem towing the 4200# TA with the diesel. The 3.6 gas (my current one) will do it but with poor mileage (14.6). The 700# "tongue" weight on a Andersen Ultimate isn't a big deal for it's payload of 1650#. Resale of a diesel 4WD over the small motor 150 is also a consideration. If you got the 5' bed, see the post re. where to mount the hitch rails.
You won't have to worry about weight or payload, just the envious looks from your fellow campers.

My 5.0 TA has light weight of 4240, the GVW for the trailer is 5500 lbs. Nobody tows around an empty trailer so when I went looking for a tow the rating had to at least meet the gvw of the trailer. Last thing I want to do is worry about a couple too many beers in the fridge or my wife brought along an extra pair of shoes. The ability to carry a full tank of fresh water is absolute necessity for us. I think anyone that doesn’t spec their tow based on gvw of the trailer is starting out behind the 8 ball.
Just saying[emoji41]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[salmo7000]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

If I could make a fantastic deal I'd get the same truck. that said, you would have no issue with the 21 or 19 Escape as the tongue weight will be in the 4-500 lb weight for both. The pin weight of the 5.0 I believe is 2-300 more lbs and that is the limiting factor. I was all set for the 5.0 but at he last minute went for the 19. Why pull an extra 1000 lbs around plus lose the bed use. My Hemi Ram can pull a lot but only carry 1300 lbs.

Just wondering, since you went with the 19 do you have any regrets? Are you still wishing you had a 5.0TA?? I like the idea of not having to alter the bed of my truck to accomodate a 5th wheel hitch, as well as hauling 1,000 lbs less and of course, the 19 costs thousands less. I also really like the front window that opens, which of course isn't included on the 5.0 or the 21. Above all the idea of pushing the payload limits on the Colorado really isn't sitting well with me. The main issue we have is one of us will have to crawl over the other to get out of bed in the 19, but that is a managable situation. Thoughts?