Weights and Balance for 5.0TA and Canyon

[Bobnjudy]

Boy, howdy...This got me researching and the numbers are all over the place. Most reliable was from the GMC site.
I got GVWR of 6200 on the 2017 SLT short bed, crew cab,diesel, 4wd. Curb weight of 4490.. Round number pin weight of 650. So + and - works out I can carry 1060 before I have to jettison anything from the cab/bed or worse, Jenny Craig.
Oh wait, all I have to do is stow that case of wine in the shower. Whoo hoo, happy camper.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by salmo7000

Just wondering, since you went with the 19 do you have any regrets? Are you still wishing you had a 5.0TA?? I like the idea of not having to alter the bed of my truck to accomodate a 5th wheel hitch, as well as hauling 1,000 lbs less and of course, the 19 costs thousands less. I also really like the front window that opens, which of course isn't included on the 5.0 or the 21. Above all the idea of pushing the payload limits on the Colorado really isn't sitting well with me. The main issue we have is one of us will have to crawl over the other to get out of bed in the 19, but that is a managable situation. Thoughts?

Having owned a 19 Escape and selling it when the 21 was introduced and after using the 21 for 2 years Escape comes out with the frameless awning windows I was set for the 5.0 upgrade. I had also gone from a 2009 Ram hemi to a 2014 hemi and my gas was improving from 12 to 15 mpg towing. But the hitch set up had to be done at the factory and losing the use of the bed and the extra weight issues all built up to a point where I said, let's go back to the 19, it towed perfect and had the queen bed and front dinette. So I switched my order with Escape midway through the wait period. As it turned out, we went to pick up the trailer vs having it delivered and got a chance to see Chilliwack. The front window does not open, it is a fixed pane, but each side has an opening window. My gas has remained the same at 15 mpg and I'm a happy camper.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bobnjudy

...
Oh wait, all I have to do is stow that case of wine in the shower. Whoo hoo, happy camper.

Seriously, this can be a valid strategy.
If the limitation is the truck's payload (due to GVWR, not GCWR which is the allowed total weight of loaded truck and trailer), then some people may find that they can improve their situation by shifting some cargo from the truck to the trailer... of course while maintaining a reasonable pin weight (as a percentage of the total loaded trailer weight). Storage space in the 5.0TA - and in the right locations for weight distribution - is a limitation.

[phalaney]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Seriously, this can be a valid strategy.
If the limitation is the truck's payload (due to GVWR, not GCWR which is the allowed total weight of loaded truck and trailer), then some people may find that they can improve their situation by shifting some cargo from the truck to the trailer... of course while maintaining a reasonable pin weight (as a percentage of the total loaded trailer weight). Storage space in the 5.0TA - and in the right locations for weight distribution - is a limitation.

This is actually our plan as well. But not sure about your characterization of 5.0TA storage space. We've never been blessed with as much before - especially outside accessible - and plan on exploiting it. Especially with the camping we plan with g'kids and g'kidphenalia. Weight dist'n is to be considered, but the dual axles help out there.

Lagniappe is not looking like The Grapes of Wrath going down the road, with stuff strapped into the bed around the hitch.

[cpaharley2008]

So what are you going to do, take a scale and measure everything transferred or get weighed every time you hitch up to insure you are not over/under? Seems risky to do other than once, but a PITA to do regularly.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by phalaney

But not sure about your characterization of 5.0TA storage space.

I'm not suggesting that 5.0TA storage space isn't good, just that if you try to take huge amounts of stuff you will run out of good places to put it... in any trailer. Stuff carried in the truck is often bulky, and not easy to carry in a trailer; I'm thinking of bikes, a grill, a generator, and other things that normally don't need to be in the trailer.

Originally Posted by phalaney

Weight dist'n is to be considered, but the dual axles help out there.

If you change the distribution of stuff, the change in location of centre of mass is the same regardless of single or tandem (or triple) axles. If you're thinking that anywhere between the axles is the same, it's not, just as moving load in the truck between the axles can't be ignored. If the trailer is kept level, the trailer axles carry equal loads, and any shift in cargo is reflected in changes in the pin weight.

So unless you mean that tandem axles help stability so the load distribution is less important, then no, they don't really help.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

So what are you going to do, take a scale and measure everything transferred or get weighed every time you hitch up to insure you are not over/under? Seems risky to do other than once, but a PITA to do regularly.

It's not unreasonable to run over a scale at the beginning of each trip, as a check. Highway truck scales here and in many places are free, but I do realize that in other areas a commercial scale would need to be paid for.

[phalaney]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I'm not suggesting that 5.0TA storage space isn't good, just that if you try to take huge amounts of stuff you will run out of good places to put it... in any trailer. Stuff carried in the truck is often bulky, and not easy to carry in a trailer; I'm thinking of bikes, a grill, a generator, and other things that normally don't need to be in the trailer.


If you change the distribution of stuff, the change in location of centre of mass is the same regardless of single or tandem (or triple) axles. If you're thinking that anywhere between the axles is the same, it's not, just as moving load in the truck between the axles can't be ignored. If the trailer is kept level, the trailer axles carry equal loads, and any shift in cargo is reflected in changes in the pin weight.

So unless you mean that tandem axles help stability so the load distribution is less important, then no, they don't really help.

I think we agree on storage, given your expansion. Yes, I do mean that about tandem axles. And no gen for us, and our bikes go behind. We'll have a few things in the bed. Little Weber kettle, g'kids tiny bikes, a water tight, mid sized, tool box. it all has weight, but I'm not worried about GVWR............

[jodan0586]

I just read your entry regarding the placement of a 5th wheel hitch on a short bed Colorado. I have a 2016, newer body style, Colorado and plan to purchase a used 5.0TA. The seller indicated that his hitch, Pro 16k, does not make rails to fit my truck.
Could you send me some pictures of your install?
Thanks,
Dan Smyth
jodan0586@yahoo.com

[Velsandy]

Originally Posted by Kent

Just curious if you had any issues turning at tight angles? Does not look like you would. Thanks for picture and info!

Cheers

How does the Canyon perform & average mpg? We visited the factory last week and looking to see if our truck is capable or need to upgrade if we buy the 5.0TA. We have the 2018 Canyon diesel crew cab long box.

[Gori]

Originally Posted by gmchamplin

We recently got home after picking up our new 5.0TA on the 5th. The return trip was 2,767 miles over 10 days. It included heavy stop-and-go traffic from Everett to Portland, steep grades and narrow twisting road from Lee Vining to Benton CA, and a lot of straight and level highway on I40.

My previous towing experience was with a much bigger truck and a much smaller trailer, so I don’t really don’t have a good point of comparison, but overall I was happy with the experience. I certainly knew I was towing a trailer, and there were times when either a strong cross-wind or concrete expansion joints would cause a perceptible oscillation, but it was never bad. I had no problem going as fast as I wanted to, which was usually 60-65 mph. Bottom line, I was very satisfied with the way the truck-trailer combination performed and handled.

Overall measured mileage for the return trip was 17.9 mpg. This compares to 28.4 mpg for the measured mileage for the 2,252-mile out-bound trip without the trailer.

We brought the truck to Chilliwack full of bedding, clothing, kitchenware and other essentials. After pick-up this was transferred to the trailer, and we stocked the cupboards and refrigerator with groceries. We had nothing that was particularly heavy, though, and still had empty cabinets in the kitchen and dinette areas. In New Mexico, I took the opportunity to use a Cat scale at a Loves truck stop. At the time, I had a full fresh water tank, and one days use in the gray and black tanks which registered at 1/3 and Empty.

These are the weights:
o 3,885 lbs -- Standard empty weight (without options, from ETI web site)
o 4,286 lbs -- Empty weight of my trailer (from nameplate)
o 4,940 lbs -- Measured weight of trailer
o 5,460 lbs -- Measured weight of truck alone
o 760 lbs -- Measured weight of kingpin on truck

This gives 15.4% of the trailer weight on the kingpin. This is lower than the 19% to 25% the Owner’s Manual says it should be. I don’t see any good way to add weight to the front of the trailer. Emptying the fresh water tank should increase the pin weight percent a little, but when I specifically asked about this during orientation, I was told it was not necessary.

This also gives a gross weight for the truck plus kingpin of 6,220 pounds, compared to the GVWR on the doorpost decal of 6,200. Adding weight to the front of the trailer is not an option, even if I had a way to do it.

I seem to be operating under the recommended pin weight, and at the limit of what the Canyon is rated for, but so far I am satisfied with the performance there.

Trademasters told me that there are many others with the same truck-trailer combination. Can any of you share your weights and towing experience?

Wow! What a beautiful truck/trailer combo. So pretty... and such good mileage! Wonder how it would do with a 21' Escape. I hear that they are out there. : )

[Kent]

Originally Posted by Velsandy

How does the Canyon perform & average mpg? We visited the factory last week and looking to see if our truck is capable or need to upgrade if we buy the 5.0TA. We have the 2018 Canyon diesel crew cab long box.

For me it is perfect match no issues and love it. Trailer loaded for travel weighs 4880 lbs. Tongue weight came in at 800 lbs. I used scales on my way home from trip to measure front and rear axles separately with trailer hitched and UN-hitched.

[Bobnjudy]

Good grief, what a difference from 2015 6 speed gas to a 2019 6 speed diesel.
Fully loaded 10,450 getting 18.4 mpg in up/down grade, head/tailwind, 65 mph/idle time, with Andersen Ultimate 5760 mi so far.
Zero white knuckle minutes. The darn thing just hums along in 6th, maybe an unnoticeable shift to 5th, a rare throw to 4th, till spouse says to pull over for a rest stop.
This marriage of a mid sized camper to a mid sized TV with adequate torque works for us. When camping is done, the hitch frame comes off the rails had hangs on the garage wall. The Canyon becomes the daily driver with grandkid booster seats in the back.

[Velsandy]

Who did you have install hitch? Im trying to get a hitch and they say they don’t make them for the Canyon diesel. Do you have a model number?

[Velsandy]

We have the Canyon diesel and looking to find out what hitch to install. They say they don’t make them for the Canyon yet. What did you have installed?

[Bobnjudy]

I purchased an Andersen Ultimate rail mount system and installation from Trademasters in Chilliwack. When I bought a new diesel Canyon I had my local store, Spillars Custom Hitches in Austin, TX, move it from one truck to the other.
My truck is the 5' bed and there's no problem with 90 degree backing turns and there's room to walk behind the truck when the gate is down when the hitch ball is centered about 30" from the rear window.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Velsandy

We have the Canyon diesel and looking to find out what hitch to install. They say they don’t make them for the Canyon yet. What did you have installed?

There will probably never be brackets specific to the Colorado/Canyon for mounting hitch rails, because the truck is not capable of towing most fifth-wheel trailers (since most are much heavier than an Escape). The solution is normally universal bracket kits, and probably drilling some bolt holes in the frame.

[newbie]

Thanks for this post. I was thinking I would need the 6 foot bed on a Canyon to pull the 5ta. I am really surprised to hear 5 foot bed works fine.

[Nomad54]

Hi Bobnjudy,
I have a 2016 Colorado diesel crew cab short bed (5'2") We are looking at the Escape 5.0TA but have the same issue you had. The factory does not approve any bed under 5"6".
Have there been any issues with your setup?
Could you please send me any pictures you have of the hitch installation?
Can I give you a call?
Thanks,
Bob
wattalife54@gmail.com
786-239-4781

[Jeremy Kessenich]

Thanks for the post Gary and Peggy. I have a 2017 GMC Canyon Duramax and just realized it doesn't have a full sized spare tire. I've been told a full sized tire won't fit in the space of the OEM temporary spare tire. Do you worry about possibly towing with a temporary tire? Do you think a mount like this would fit behind your anderson hitch?