Weights and Balance for 5.0TA and Canyon

[gmchamplin]

We recently got home after picking up our new 5.0TA on the 5th. The return trip was 2,767 miles over 10 days. It included heavy stop-and-go traffic from Everett to Portland, steep grades and narrow twisting road from Lee Vining to Benton CA, and a lot of straight and level highway on I40.

My previous towing experience was with a much bigger truck and a much smaller trailer, so I don’t really don’t have a good point of comparison, but overall I was happy with the experience. I certainly knew I was towing a trailer, and there were times when either a strong cross-wind or concrete expansion joints would cause a perceptible oscillation, but it was never bad. I had no problem going as fast as I wanted to, which was usually 60-65 mph. Bottom line, I was very satisfied with the way the truck-trailer combination performed and handled.

Overall measured mileage for the return trip was 17.9 mpg. This compares to 28.4 mpg for the measured mileage for the 2,252-mile out-bound trip without the trailer.

We brought the truck to Chilliwack full of bedding, clothing, kitchenware and other essentials. After pick-up this was transferred to the trailer, and we stocked the cupboards and refrigerator with groceries. We had nothing that was particularly heavy, though, and still had empty cabinets in the kitchen and dinette areas. In New Mexico, I took the opportunity to use a Cat scale at a Loves truck stop. At the time, I had a full fresh water tank, and one days use in the gray and black tanks which registered at 1/3 and Empty.

These are the weights:
o 3,885 lbs -- Standard empty weight (without options, from ETI web site)
o 4,286 lbs -- Empty weight of my trailer (from nameplate)
o 4,940 lbs -- Measured weight of trailer
o 5,460 lbs -- Measured weight of truck alone
o 760 lbs -- Measured weight of kingpin on truck

This gives 15.4% of the trailer weight on the kingpin. This is lower than the 19% to 25% the Owner’s Manual says it should be. I don’t see any good way to add weight to the front of the trailer. Emptying the fresh water tank should increase the pin weight percent a little, but when I specifically asked about this during orientation, I was told it was not necessary.

This also gives a gross weight for the truck plus kingpin of 6,220 pounds, compared to the GVWR on the doorpost decal of 6,200. Adding weight to the front of the trailer is not an option, even if I had a way to do it.

I seem to be operating under the recommended pin weight, and at the limit of what the Canyon is rated for, but so far I am satisfied with the performance there.

Trademasters told me that there are many others with the same truck-trailer combination. Can any of you share your weights and towing experience?

[padlin]

Different truck and an older 5.0TA, but the heaviest I've measured the pin, and I've done it a few times, was a bit lower at 728 lbs. I've always thought the holding tank contents make the biggest difference. As such it can vary an awful lot as you travel.

On edit: if this works, here's a link to Jon's real world weight list.
http://lakeshoreimages.com/spreadsheets/Weight.xls

[Kent]

Just curious if you had any issues turning at tight angles? Does not look like you would. Thanks for picture and info!

Cheers

[Devil Dog]

Also does the steering feel light at hi-way speed ?

[gmchamplin]

Originally Posted by padlin

Different truck and an older 5.0TA, but the heaviest I've measured the pin, and I've done it a few times, was a bit lower at 728 lbs. I've always thought the holding tank contents make the biggest difference. As such it can vary an awful lot as you travel.

On edit: if this works, here's a link to Jon's real world weight list.
http://lakeshoreimages.com/spreadsheets/Weight.xls

What was the trailer weight that went with that pin weight?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[gmchamplin]

Originally Posted by Kent

Just curious if you had any issues turning at tight angles? Does not look like you would. Thanks for picture and info!

Cheers

I haven't tried anything very tight, but no problems yet.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[gmchamplin]

Originally Posted by Devil Dog

Also does the steering feel light at hi-way speed ?

No, the steering always felt solid.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gmchamplin

These are the weights:
o 3,885 lbs -- Standard empty weight (without options, from ETI web site)
o 4,286 lbs -- Empty weight of my trailer (from nameplate)
o 4,940 lbs -- Measured weight of trailer
o 5,460 lbs -- Measured weight of truck alone
o 760 lbs -- Measured weight of kingpin on truck

This gives 15.4% of the trailer weight on the kingpin. This is lower than the 19% to 25% the Owner’s Manual says it should be.

Of the small sample of 5.0 and 5.0TA in the spreadsheet, pin weight fraction varies from 12% to 22%... with half of them under 19%; that seems to work for those owners.

The base, dry, empty 5.0TA only has 15% pin weight, so a target of 19% to 25% seems unreasonable to me, especially with as much storage space in the back as in the front. 25% of the GVWR of 5500 pounds would be 1375 pounds, which is within the ratings of common hitches but unreasonable for any truck commonly suggested for towing the 5.0TA; this could only reasonably be an upper limit, not a goal.

Although a fifth-wheel trailer typically can handle a higher tongue (pin) weight fraction than a conventional trailer, it doesn't need it for stability or any other reason that I can think of. Unless someone can provide a good reason for the 19% value, I don't see any reason to be concerned about the 15.4% value.

[Bobnjudy]

We had about the same weights as yours coming back to TX after pick up in April. Towing a TA was a lot different than our previous Scamp 19 and we'll be switching to the diesel next season. With the 2015 gas engine I only got 14.9 mpg (down 1.5 from the Scamp) but lousy performance in any uphill or headwind.

[phalaney]

Originally Posted by gmchamplin

We recently got home after picking up our new 5.0TA on the 5th. The return trip was 2,767 miles over 10 days. It included heavy stop-and-go traffic from Everett to Portland, steep grades and narrow twisting road from Lee Vining to Benton CA, and a lot of straight and level highway on I40.

My previous towing experience was with a much bigger truck and a much smaller trailer, so I don’t really don’t have a good point of comparison, but overall I was happy with the experience. I certainly knew I was towing a trailer, and there were times when either a strong cross-wind or concrete expansion joints would cause a perceptible oscillation, but it was never bad. I had no problem going as fast as I wanted to, which was usually 60-65 mph. Bottom line, I was very satisfied with the way the truck-trailer combination performed and handled.

Overall measured mileage for the return trip was 17.9 mpg. This compares to 28.4 mpg for the measured mileage for the 2,252-mile out-bound trip without the trailer.

We brought the truck to Chilliwack full of bedding, clothing, kitchenware and other essentials. After pick-up this was transferred to the trailer, and we stocked the cupboards and refrigerator with groceries. We had nothing that was particularly heavy, though, and still had empty cabinets in the kitchen and dinette areas. In New Mexico, I took the opportunity to use a Cat scale at a Loves truck stop. At the time, I had a full fresh water tank, and one days use in the gray and black tanks which registered at 1/3 and Empty.

These are the weights:
o 3,885 lbs -- Standard empty weight (without options, from ETI web site)
o 4,286 lbs -- Empty weight of my trailer (from nameplate)
o 4,940 lbs -- Measured weight of trailer
o 5,460 lbs -- Measured weight of truck alone
o 760 lbs -- Measured weight of kingpin on truck

This gives 15.4% of the trailer weight on the kingpin. This is lower than the 19% to 25% the Owner’s Manual says it should be. I don’t see any good way to add weight to the front of the trailer. Emptying the fresh water tank should increase the pin weight percent a little, but when I specifically asked about this during orientation, I was told it was not necessary.

This also gives a gross weight for the truck plus kingpin of 6,220 pounds, compared to the GVWR on the doorpost decal of 6,200. Adding weight to the front of the trailer is not an option, even if I had a way to do it.

I seem to be operating under the recommended pin weight, and at the limit of what the Canyon is rated for, but so far I am satisfied with the performance there.

Trademasters told me that there are many others with the same truck-trailer combination. Can any of you share your weights and towing experience?

Congrats on your positive experience, and thx lots for the informative post. Almost eerily validating, as this is exactly what we hope for next month. Down to identical driving habits.

*Did you have any significant X winds, and if so, how did you do with them?

*How did you do with jake braking, if any?

*Did you have lots of stuff in your truck? Are you anxious about your GVWR? FYI, this seems widely scofflawed among other posters, but I think we both take safety and overloading seriously.

Thx again...

[gmchamplin]

Originally Posted by phalaney

*Did you have any significant X winds, and if so, how did you do with them?

Yes, we had a stiff wind out of the southwest as we came east on I-40. I could feel it occasionally, but it wasn’t bad. I didn’t realize how strong it was until we pulled off for lunch at a rest stop, and had to hang onto my door when I opened it. The wind whistled in the open trailer door as we ate lunch.
　

Originally Posted by phalaney

*How did you do with jake braking, if any?

If that means the exhaust brake, it performed beautifully. We had twisting down-grades up to 8%, and I rarely did more than tap the brakes. I forgot to engage the exhaust brake one time after stopping for road construction, and could immediately tell the difference on the first downhill.
　

Originally Posted by phalaney

*Did you have lots of stuff in your truck? Are you anxious about your GVWR? FYI, this seems widely scofflawed among other posters, but I think we both take safety and overloading seriously.

I had a few things in the truck I wouldn’t normally carry, such as suitcases and left-over vinyl flooring, so I think I will be able to stay close to the GVWR. I wouldn’t say that I am anxious, but I do plan to watch my weight. I won’t carry very much in the truck, or go very far with much in the gray or black tanks.

[phalaney]

Thanks Gary and Peggy, comforting responses.

FYI, Clearview mirrors installed yesterday by the local Chevy money machine. I tried. I got the upper trim strips off of our 2018 and a mirror off, but the connection was buried in the door "liner?". Started on that, got a peek inside and chickened out. It took the Chevy mechanic over 2 hours - with maybe 1/2 hour figuring out a blanking plug or some such that Clearview put in their connection. Of course, NO Clearview instructions/video's for the 2018. So, even with the deck clearing $ total, I was glad the did it. Very happy with the mirrors. Functional, and matches great with the classy black plastic that accentuates the 2018 Z71's.

MY Peggy half is now even MORE obsessed as D day approaches. Lists of lists on what to take/what we don't need, for our shakedown/return home trip. This pickup trip, and trans Canada next spring/summer is what we're doing instead of the 2 months in Italy that we promised ourselves for our 40th. So we need to remember vermecilli, Peg's homemade pesto, and sausage....

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by phalaney

Thanks Gary and Peggy, comforting responses.

FYI, Clearview mirrors installed yesterday by the local Chevy money machine. I tried. I got the upper trim strips off of our 2018 and a mirror off, but the connection was buried in the door "liner?". Started on that, got a peek inside and chickened out. It took the Chevy mechanic over 2 hours - with maybe 1/2 hour figuring out a blanking plug or some such that Clearview put in their connection. Of course, NO Clearview instructions/video's for the 2018. So, even with the deck clearing $ total, I was glad the did it. Very happy with the mirrors. Functional, and matches great with the classy black plastic that accentuates the 2018 Z71's.

MY Peggy half is now even MORE obsessed as D day approaches. Lists of lists on what to take/what we don't need, for our shakedown/return home trip. This pickup trip, and trans Canada next spring/summer is what we're doing instead of the 2 months in Italy that we promised ourselves for our 40th. So we need to remember vermecilli, Peg's homemade pesto, and sausage....

Hi: phalaney... I'm sure Vancouver has a "Little Italy" that could do in a pinch!!! My 1aauto Nissan Frontier trailer tow mirrors came with no instructions either... but then I only read them as a last resort.
Enjoy the trip. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[lzcamper]

Gary & Peggy,

I just purchased an neat little Escape 5.0 and am looking at different trucks to tow it with. I prefer a mid-size over a full size, but am trying to find out what kind of hitch will work with the shorter bed of the crew cab model of the Canyon.

What kind of hitch do you have? Where is it mounted relative to the rear axle?

Thanks for any information that you might have,

Rick

[phalaney]

Originally Posted by lzcamper

Gary & Peggy,

I just purchased an neat little Escape 5.0 and am looking at different trucks to tow it with. I prefer a mid-size over a full size, but am trying to find out what kind of hitch will work with the shorter bed of the crew cab model of the Canyon.

What kind of hitch do you have? Where is it mounted relative to the rear axle?

Thanks for any information that you might have,

Rick

Sorry to have missed your post. We went with the Anderson Ultimate, and it worked great for the ~4500 miles it took to get home. The mount center of gravity on our crew cab LONG BED is a few inches behind the axle center. Never had a trailer pull so well. But it comes without safety chains, which, per other threads here, you MUST have, to stay legal. Anderson makes them as an adder and I'm going to order ours right after this post. Also, if you end up ordering, please write back and I'll resurrect the link to the trailer receiver housing and lock we installed. It was also recommended in this site, and even here in south St. Louis, we aren't worried about Escape thieves.

Finally, you will need a tow mirror with mid sizers. Colorado/Canyons don't come with them from the factory, even as options. Why? So, we ordered Clearview's from Australia. Great mirrors, nearly worth the tooth grinding while filling in your Visa information.

[lzcamper]

Gary & Peggy,

Thanks for the information!

Rick

[JeffNY]

Hi Guys,

Great thread, just what I was looking for. I sold my ’93 30’ Fleetwood Southwind two years ago (I had bought it used in 2008). It was just too big and heavy for what I wanted to do. Got to really like the Winnebago View Class-C’s, but then while looking at truck campers discovered the Escape 5.0 TA 5th wheel. Got me thinking it could be just what we want, and I started looking at pickup trucks….and found I really am liking the Colorado/Canyon with the diesel.

But I had a couple questions maybe you guys could help me with so I can get up to speed on this 5th wheel? Been watching YouTube videos, but nothing like hearing from people with this trailer and truck combination. So, could you guys help me with some questions?

1. The*Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon have the short bed (5' 2")*or long bed (6' 2") version. I like the short bed version, but would the long bed version be needed for the 5th wheel bed hitch?

2. It appears the Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon (with the 2.8 Duramax Diesel) would be fine to pull the 5.0TA trailer with. But what make 5th wheels are you using? And do they rattle around when not connected to the trailer?

3. Does the 5th wheel bed hitch need to be placed directly over the rear axel of the truck in the truck bed?

4. I am really liking the Titan Travel Trekker 40-Gallon Fuel Tanks for small diesel trucks to extend the range of a Colorado/Canyon. Any thoughts on adding.using this?

Link

Test drove some Colorado and Canyons this week. But I read there is supposed to be a mid-cycle refresh of these trucks this year and the 2019’s may offer some new things and a new diesel…so I may wait until later this year to see what comes before buying.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Jeff-

[JeffNY]

Hi Guys,

Great thread, just what I was looking for. I sold my ’93 30’ Fleetwood Southwind two years ago (I had bought it used in 2008). It was just too big and heavy for what I wanted to do. Got to really like the Winnebago View Class-C’s, but then while looking at truck campers discovered the Escape 5.0 TA 5th wheel. Got me thinking it could be just what we want, and I started looking at pickup trucks….and found I really am liking the Colorado/Canyon with the diesel.

But I had a couple questions maybe you guys could help me with so I can get up to speed on this 5th wheel? Been watching YouTube videos, but nothing like hearing from people with this trailer and truck combination. So, could you guys help me with some questions?

1. The*Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon have the short bed (5' 2")*or long bed (6' 2") version. I like the short bed version, but would the long bed version be needed for the 5th wheel bed hitch?

2. It appears the Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon (with the 2.8 Duramax Diesel) would be fine to pull the 5.0TA trailer with. But what make 5th wheels are you using? And do they rattle around when not connected to the trailer?

3. Does the 5th wheel bed hitch need to be placed directly over the rear axel of the truck in the truck bed?

4. I am really liking the Titan Travel Trekker 40-Gallon Fuel Tanks for small diesel trucks to extend the range of a Colorado/Canyon. Any thoughts on adding.using this? [I tried to post YouTube link but my message would not post, can just search on YouTube for "SEMA 2017: Titan Fuel Tanks 40-Gallon Travel Trekker for Small Diesel Trucks"]

Test drove some Colorado and Canyons this week. But I read there is supposed to be a mid-cycle refresh of these trucks this year and the 2019’s may offer some new things and a new diesel…so I may wait until later this year to see what comes before buying.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Jeff-

PS Oh, and what does the 5th wheel hitch in the truck bed typically weigh?

[Kent]

My comments in red;

Originally Posted by JeffNY

1. The*Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon have the short bed (5' 2")*or long bed (6' 2") version. I like the short bed version, but would the long bed version be needed for the 5th wheel bed hitch?

Based on my limited experience with my 2018 Canyon and currently installing a fifth wheel hitch. I would go with the long bed.

Link to my hitch install in progress.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...all-12117.html

2. It appears the Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon (with the 2.8 Duramax Diesel) would be fine to pull the 5.0TA trailer with. But what make 5th wheels are you using? And do they rattle around when not connected to the trailer?

I'm installing Anderson Ultimate 5th wheel hitch, they are less prone to rattle around.


3. Does the 5th wheel bed hitch need to be placed directly over the rear axel of the truck in the truck bed?

Installation instructions regardless of 5th wheel hitch will state you want the king pin over the rear axle.

4. I am really liking the Titan Travel Trekker 40-Gallon Fuel Tanks for small diesel trucks to extend the range of a Colorado/Canyon. Any thoughts on adding.using this? [I tried to post YouTube link but my message would not post, can just search on YouTube for "SEMA 2017: Titan Fuel Tanks 40-Gallon Travel Trekker for Small Diesel Trucks"]

I personally would not add an extra gas tank as it would add to much weight when filled and do not think it is necessary. The Colorado/Canyon platform and 5.0TA you are already close to limits of weight capacity. I would rather have space for my stuff than extra fuel.

PS Oh, and what does the 5th wheel hitch in the truck bed typically weigh?
Standard 5th wheel hitch will be about 130 to 150lbs. The Anderson Ulitmate 5th wheel hitch is about 100 lbs less.

[emers382]

Kent do you know if that 100 lbs less for the Andersen includes the pin box attachment and chains, or just the hitch itself?

Adrian