which 3 row mid sized SUV for 17B or 19 Escape?

[gklott]

Originally Posted by harvest

So our final three is between Pilot, Ascent, and Atlas.

Good luck with your decision.

73/gus

[harvest]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

did anyone mention that the newer Subarus, including the Ascent, *ALL* use CVT (Continuously Variable Transmissions), and that these really aren't suitable for more than light very occasional towing?

I have been reading that, but then I looked on the Ascent forum and read a few things that made me think otherwise. Someone said that a CVT like is on the Ascent might actually be an advantage with towing because it will always seek the optimum ratio and RPM for the given load. Also that the CVT has a rear differential temperature sensor and there are no pushbelts. Things that I read that made me think it would be ok. We also really liked it other that reading about the CVT not being ideal. When reading that it was different, it made the Ascent back on the list.

[BigSwede]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

btw, the distinction between large and mid sized has as much to do with WIDTH as wheelbase.

FWIW, my sister's Pilot is wider than my GX. In fact, they've nicknamed it "The Bulbous".

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by BigSwede

FWIW, my sister's Pilot is wider than my GX. In fact, they've nicknamed it "The Bulbous".

the Pilot, and its cousin the Ridgeline truck, are both pretty close to full size.

everything has been so plus-sized, its not funny. today's 'compact' Rav4 is probably larger than a 'mid sized' Highlander was 10 or 15 years ago.

[brroberts]

I like the Metris, and have considered one, but the distance and scarcity of dealers has always out me off.

[John in Santa Cruz]

as someone who has owned several Mercedes over the years, as well as older VW products, I'd be pretty leery of either the VW Atlas, or the MB Metris, and for sure would want a very good relation with a good indie MB or VW specialist. The newer Mercedes stuff is way over the top with complicated technology, our 2016 E350 wagon has around 20 different computers, and 8 different digital data buses.

We bought it because we could A) afford it, B) knew what we were getting into, and C) really liked the car itself, how it rides and drives, and how comfortable the seats are and stuff like that. Do NOT expect Toyota reliability and low total cost of ownership from anything European.

A wag I know likes to say, "The Germans could make reliable cars, but then everyone would hate them"

[Mike G]

My 2008 Lexus GX (purchased used in 2015) came with a pair of jump seats behind the second row. I removed them, don't need 'em, but it's interesting that the SUV could carry 7 in a pinch. The V8 is nice for towing (it's rated for 6500/950). Despite 175K on the odometer it still runs and feels like new. On the downside, storage space is less than the Highlander.

[John in Santa Cruz]

The Lexus GX is roughly equivalent to the Toyota 4Runner, both based on the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, a mid sized land cruiser. The Lexus LX is based on the full sized Land Cruiser. These are all *true* SUV's, with body on frame, RWD predominate 4x4 drive, as opposed to the beefed up FWD/AWD car based crossovers that the OP is looking for (which IMHO are poor choices for long distance towing as the predominant drive axle is the front o the tow vehicle, and often the rear drive axles of FWD-centric AWD cars are very weak).

[Blue goose fan]

Originally Posted by skyfree

We have a 2017 Honda Pilot AWD EXL 6-speed with Nav and haven't had any problems with the infotainment system, but the sound quality is garbage.

The 2016-18 have some bulletin issues that we ran into recently. Check engine light and codes thrown. Needed new injectors, fuel rail, and transmission fluid/reprogramming. Super annoying but Honda covered it so no harm except my time and it takes about 4.5 hours of labor so it was overnight at the dealer.

We had to have the brake rotors turned at about 60,000 miles (shuddering on long downhills). They claimed it was due to towing but I have my doubts about that conclusion.

I feel like it's a good tow vehicle for the 17B, but you will need to find one with the 5,000 lb towing capacity which means hitch, wiring harness, and transmission cooler (it's a small extra radiator). Then you need to get a brake controller harness and brake controller.

I know you said you are buying used, so a Kia Telluride is off the table but we test drove one and fell in love. That is the best 3-row SUV in my opinion. Dealers have been charging a premium for it, but we found a dealer in Reno that would sell us one at MSRP if we ordered it. We decided to stick with the Pilot since it's all set up but the Telluride is probably our next SUV.

Decided to trade in the ‘18 Ridgeline. It even throws a transmission code when not towing my 19’. Have not decided which tow vehicle to buy yet most likely Not a Honda, even though I love it.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Blue goose fan

Decided to trade in the ‘18 Ridgeline. It even throws a transmission code when not towing my 19’. Have not decided which tow vehicle to buy yet most likely Not a Honda, even though I love it.

if your primary purpose is 'tow vehicle' I would suggest looking at primarily RWD vehicles with live axle style rear suspension, and optional manual 4x4 (usually a lever or swithc for 2H, 4H, 4L modes). this mostly limits you to the truck based vehicles, but that includes things like Tahoe, 4Runners, Sequoias, and pretty much every truck thats not a Honda.

[NCBill]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Have a 2019 Expedition and it is the cat's meow for towing our Gen1 21. 25K so far with 75% towing and zero issues. The Gen2 19 is almost as heavy as our 21 and I cannot imagine pulling one over all the mountain passes we regularly traverse with a normally aspirated V6. Love the 3.5 EcoBoost so much I just brought home a Ford Transit 250 AWD cargo van to do a camper conversion.

Before the 21 we had a 17B and the 2013 Highlander was good for the 2850#'s wet weight.

I’d love to see that Transit as it progresses. Seems like the “perfect” TV for either of my trailers. Note on the Transit, they all have ample payload but relatively low tow ratings.

I wonder how the comfort of the Transit compares to my F150 Lariat.

[Wunfiddy]

Originally Posted by NCBill

I’d love to see that Transit as it progresses. Seems like the “perfect” TV for either of my trailers. Note on the Transit, they all have ample payload but relatively low tow ratings.

I wonder how the comfort of the Transit compares to my F150 Lariat.

I spent a lot of time in my 2018 Transit 250 MR LWB. It turns wider than my 14 F150 SCAB, rides rougher, and gets blown around more by the wind.
It excels as a tradesperson van or a delivery van. Decent forward visibility, lots of space, low load height.
I've towed a few times when windy and it's not enjoyable.
My F150 is only an XLT but I'd hazard a guess if you like your Lariat you won't like driving a Transit.

[NCBill]

Originally Posted by Wunfiddy

I spent a lot of time in my 2018 Transit 250 MR LWB. It turns wider than my 14 F150 SCAB, rides rougher, and gets blown around more by the wind.
It excels as a tradesperson van or a delivery van. Decent forward visibility, lots of space, low load height.
I've towed a few times when windy and it's not enjoyable.
My F150 is only an XLT but I'd hazard a guess if you like your Lariat you won't like driving a Transit.

Well that kind of cinches it. My next truck will likely not be a Lariat. XLT more likely.

[gklott]

Originally Posted by Wunfiddy

I've towed a few times when windy and it's not enjoyable.

Recently upgraded to a 2020 Mercedes Sprinter as a second tow vehicle. You can feel the wind, with or without the trailer. We've driven a high rood Sprinter since 2010, and you expect to feel winds with any high profile vehicle.

So far, our Hensley hitch and the Mercedes-Benz Trailer Stability Assist (TSA) makes towing our 19' Escape comfortable.

73/gus

[gklott]

Originally Posted by brroberts

I like the Metris, and have considered one, but the distance and scarcity of dealers has always out me off.

We've been pleased with our Mercedes service availability. Our first Sprinter passenger van is a 2010, and we have been able to find service when needed. We have a local (60 miles) Mercedes Sprinter service center.

We just upgraded to a 2020 Sprinter VS30 passenger van. We purchased it from Mercedes Benz of the Woodlands near Houston, TX, as they had just what we wanted in stock.

Our Sprinter has been a reliable vehicle, and we've heard the Metris is similarly reliable. The Mercedes safety features are sure nice, including the Mercedes Benz Trailer Stability Assist (TSA).

73/gus

[brroberts]

Originally Posted by gklott

We've been pleased with our Mercedes service availability. Our first Sprinter passenger van is a 2010, and we have been able to find service when needed. We have a local (60 miles) Mercedes Sprinter service center.

73/gus

I really don’t want to drive 100 miles for service when almost every other tow vehicle option has service within 20 miles. Not only are they closer and faster to get to, but also much easier to get to. For me, it’s not worth it.

[gklott]

Originally Posted by brroberts

I really don’t want to drive 100 miles for service when almost every other tow vehicle option has service within 20 miles. Not only are they closer and faster to get to, but also much easier to get to. For me, it’s not worth it.

Glad you found a tow vehicle and service availability that works for your situation. You must live in a different area than we do. Our nearest larger grocery store is > 25 miles, and the nearest Toyota dealer is > 50 miles away. Our Sprinter tow vehicle and available service work well for us.

73/gus

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Wunfiddy

I spent a lot of time in my 2018 Transit 250 MR LWB. It turns wider than my 14 F150 SCAB, rides rougher, and gets blown around more by the wind.
It excels as a tradesperson van or a delivery van. Decent forward visibility, lots of space, low load height.
I've towed a few times when windy and it's not enjoyable.
My F150 is only an XLT but I'd hazard a guess if you like your Lariat you won't like driving a Transit.

I drove the 250 HR LWB 1500 miles from dealer in Denver to CA last month. Lot of wind and I felt it, yet the van has sensors to apply brakes if needed. Happened twice as is disconnects the cruise control. Although the van is not as comfortable as the Expedition, 1500 miles in 3 days didn't make my back sore as you're sitting in a "bus driver" position. Have towed the 21 around town and the turning radius isn't as good as the Expedition. Am towing the trailer up to Oregon in two weeks to get an Adventure Wagon RUV install. One thing- no need for a WDH as there is zero squat.

[77FJ40]

May be a little late to the discussion but we drive an "old" 100 series land cruiser from 2001. It has a 4.7 V8. I love it for our family of 4 and my wife won't even consider driving something else. 3rd row can be folded up or removed and you can just use 1/2 of the 3rd row. Mileage is terrible though because it is a very heavy small truck. (6500 lbs)14 to 15 mpg empty and 11 to 12 towing our Casita or now a 17B. It is so old it only has a 4 speed transmission so on the super steep long hills it has to downshift to 2nd and we top them doing about 50 to 55 mph. But the weight of the truck means that even in high winds or passing trucks there is very little sway. I know I am old school but wouldn't even consider buying a vehicle for towing that didn't have a truck frame and a solid rear axle. I know lots of people are happy doing it. Just not what I would suggest. That leaves very few SUVs as options any more though. Mostly Toyota/Lexus vehicles. Likely won't be letting go of our old Land Cruiser anytime soon but if I was shopping. I'd be looking at a Lexus GX or Toyota 4runner or more likely a 200 series Land Cruiser. None of those options are very cheap or get very good milage. I'd rather buy something a little older and well maintained and put the savings into buying fuel though. I realize I'm a dying breed which is why there are not a lot of new options left for people like me.

[77FJ40]

This the 100 series Land Cruiser. The best family/tow vehicle. But I'm biased. If you can find one you'll likely feel the same as we do.