Which truck/options to tow a 5.0?

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Not all F-150's. As I noted, the particular combination of cab, box, and engine which Lorraine ordered does not have a payload package, according to the online specs. Perhaps there is something that a buyer can only order through a dealer? That seems like an effective way to keep people from buying it.

For the F-150 there are some packages which affect the GVWR for a given cab/box/powertrain combination:

• 2.7L EcoBoost® V6 Payload Package
  • obviously only for 2.7L EcoBoost V6
  • the 5.0L V8 comes stock with a GVWR similar to the 2.7L EcoBoost with this option
• Heavy Duty Payload Package
  • for long-wheelbase configurations: only available with 8' box and regular or SuperCab, or 6.5' box and SuperCrew
• Max Trailer Tow Package
  • only available for SuperCrew 5.5' 5.0L 4X2 configuration
• Tremor
  • reduces GVWR

For the most common configurations of the F-150 there is no payload package available.

Not sure about the bolded part. Perhaps what you said is true for 5.0L engine. We have a SuperCrew 6.5’ Hybrid 4x4 with max tow. My general recollection from ordering was the HDPP is the one that is most restricted as you said. Max tow is fairly widely available.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

Not sure about the bolded part. Perhaps what you said is true for 5.0L engine. We have a SuperCrew 6.5’ Hybrid 4x4 with max tow. My general recollection from ordering was the HDPP is the one that is most restricted as you said. Max tow is fairly widely available.

As I mentioned earlier, I didn't express this clearly the first time... the Max Tow package only affects GVWR (and thus likely payload) in that one combination, but it is available for a wide range of configurations.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

As I mentioned earlier, I didn't express this clearly the first time... the Max Tow package only affects GVWR (and thus likely payload) in that one combination, but it is available for a wide range of configurations.

Sorry, I did not follow the thread closely. When I was buying, the relationship between payload and max tow was a big discussion topic. A number of people on the F150 boards argued for dropping max tow to gain better payload. We did not take that advice and got max tow anyway.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by kavm

When I was buying, the relationship between payload and max tow was a big discussion topic. A number of people on the F150 boards argued for dropping max tow to gain better payload. We did not take that advice and got max tow anyway.

Max Tow would add equipment, reducing payload, but not significantly. As long as Max Tow doesn't prevent you from getting another even more desirable option, of course it makes sense to get it.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Max Tow would add equipment, reducing payload, but not significantly. As long as Max Tow doesn't prevent you from getting another even more desirable option, of course it makes sense to get it.

Thank you! Exactly what I thought. Even though it was our first truck and my understanding of towing was very light, I figured removing something called max tow when towing was the main task I was buying the truck for was a poor idea and never seriously considered it.

In 2021 (and perhaps thereafter), Ford has also added a tow technology package. It has trailer brake controller, 360 camera, reverse guidance and reverse assist. It was standard with our trim. So far, the reverse guidance and reverse assist have not been of much assistance but hooking up to the Andersen coupler hasn’t nearly been the terror I was anticipating.

[Centex]

Just FYI for those interested in estimating "Payload" for a 2021 F150 of a given configuration including options, there's information and a worksheet for that purpose included in this Ford eSourceBook (PDF link source: F150 Gen14 forum).

Note all the caveats printed in the document .... this is an estimating tool (but likely gets one closer than the 'max values' published in the retail marketing literature, and certainly does a better job of quantifying the gain associated with the "Heavy Duty Payload Package 627").

There's also bed-floor and bed-rail height info that might be of interest to 5.0TA folks.

Given that the 2022 F150 is a 'carryover' of the 2021 model year with no major changes, the info would likely be valid for the 2022 models as well.

Have Fun!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Centex

Just FYI for those interested in estimating "Payload" for a 2021 F150 of a given configuration including options, there's information and a worksheet for that purpose included in this Ford eSourceBook (PDF link source: F150 Gen14 forum).

That's an excellent resource. This is copy published - presumably without authorization - in an enthusiasts forum, perhaps by someone who had access to the dealerconnection resource (the links within the document lead to www.esourcebook.dealerconnection.com); however, this information is legitimately available to the public from the Ford Body Builder Advisory Service. The BAS document is 2021 F-150 SPECS R1, from the Vehicle Specifications category of the BAS Publications.

One of the most interesting bits of information in this material is the list of frame rail size and thicknesses. They're all the same height and width (for all variations of the F-150), but with different thicknesses depending on configuration of cab, powertrain (4X2 vs 4X4), and wheelbase... but for most configurations there are two different thicknesses, identified as "LD" (presumably "light duty"), "HD" (presumably "heavy duty"), and "HPP" (presumably "heavy-duty payload package"). A thicker frame - now that's something you're not going to get by buying the wrong version and adding some aftermarket parts!

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

One of the most interesting bits of information in this material is the list of frame rail size and thicknesses. They're all the same height and width (for all variations of the F-150), but with different thicknesses depending on configuration of cab, powertrain (4X2 vs 4X4), and wheelbase... but for most configurations there are two different thicknesses, identified as "LD" (presumably "light duty"), "HD" (presumably "heavy duty"), and "HPP" (presumably "heavy-duty payload package"). A thicker frame - now that's something you're not going to get by buying the wrong version and adding some aftermarket parts!

thats a relatively recent development. I've been told by 'those who should know' that my 2002 F250 (GVWR 8,800 lbs) has the same frame as a F350 dualie (11,200 lb GVWR), that the difference is purely in the springs and final drive ratios, and wheels.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

thats a relatively recent development. I've been told by 'those who should know' that my 2002 F250 (GVWR 8,800 lbs) has the same frame as a F350 dualie (11,200 lb GVWR), that the difference is purely in the springs and final drive ratios, and wheels.

My comment was about the F-150, not the essentially unrelated SuperDuty trucks, but I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing were to happen in the SuperDuty models. While I initially wondered if 'those who should know' checked Ford's published frame specs - including thickness - or measured all relevant frames themselves, I checked the documents and the SuperDuty specs for both 2022 and 2014 (the newest and oldest years available) do show the same frame section modulus and yield strength for all F25/F-350/F-450 pickup configurations - even with different wheelbases. The actual dimensions (height, width, thickness) are not shown in the SuperDuty pickup spec document as they are for the F-150. In the chassis-cabs, on the other hand, the dimensions are given and do vary with series (F-350 vs F-450 vs F-550) and between wheelbases within the same series in some cases (F-450). Chassis-cabs and pickups don't use the same frame.

I don't think that this is very new for the F-150; it has been mentioned in this forum before... but it's not what I would consider 'common knowledge'. The 2014 F-150 spec document (the oldest available from BAS) shows a similar range of frame constructions. I think the difference between the SuperDuty approach and the more optimized F-150 approach is that weight is much more important in the F-150 line; any F-250 is so heavy it is exempted from various federal motor vehicle requirements that apply to "light" vehicles.

By the way,

• the 2022 SuperDuty pickup frame is roughly twice as strong (in bending yield strength) as the 2014 SuperDuty pickup frame, and
• the strongest current F-150 frame is stronger than the 2014 SuperDuty pickup frame (not quite as large, but steel with higher yield strength).

Things are not always as one might guess.

[Centex]

While at the local Ford dealer yesterday buying a part I noticed an elusive new 2021 F150 SuperCab XLT 4x4 with 6.5ft box (145" WB).

Got curious and took a look and pics of the payload stickers, then last night played with the payload estimator from the eSourceBook to see how close it might get me to the actual sticker payload for this truck ....

This truck is without Max Tow or HD Payload Packages but very nicely equipped with XLT upper-level trim, tow tech package so it has the brake controller, nifty 360 cams, adaptive cruise control, 36 gallon tank, etc, etc. Sticker Payload is 1812#, more than enough for a 5.0TA methinks. Expensive though at $53,955 MSRP.

Using the eSourceBook estimator I got a calculated payload of 1881#, 69# more than the actual sticker, but the estimator had "TBA" for the optional tires and FX4 Off-Road Package weights. So, IMO, the eSourceBook payload estimator is a reasonably good ballpark estimating tool. FWIW the salesman told me that's the only tool he knows of for getting an estimated payload, he claimed there's nothing better Ford can (or will?) generate even for a special order before it is actually built.

Just a fun diversion, FYI.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Centex

While at the local Ford dealer yesterday buying a part I noticed an elusive new 2021 F150 SuperCab XLT 4x4 with 6.5ft box (145" WB).

Got curious and took a look and pics of the payload stickers, then last night played with the payload estimator from the eSourceBook to see how close it might get me to the actual sticker payload for this truck ....

This truck is without Max Tow or HD Payload Packages but very nicely equipped with XLT upper-level trim, tow tech package so it has the brake controller, nifty 360 cams, adaptive cruise control, 36 gallon tank, etc, etc. Sticker Payload is 1812#, more than enough for a 5.0TA methinks. Expensive though at $53,955 MSRP.

I wish that truck had been available to us two years ago. We purchased a 2019 Lariat with 1,750# payload, but both of us liked the cloth seats in our 2015 XLT much better than our current leather seats. The 2019 has Lane Assist (worthless), not Lane Keep that actually works, and no Adaptive Cruise Control.

As soon as our warranty expires I'll be spending about $2,000 for Adaptive Cruise Control to be installed after the fact. So far on the Ford F150 Forum numerous members have successfully installed ACC in their driveway.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

.... As soon as our warranty expires I'll be spending about $2,000 for Adaptive Cruise Control to be installed after the fact. So far on the Ford F150 Forum numerous members have successfully installed ACC in their driveway.

Yeah, I only scanned that thread rather quickly but it seemed success depended on true Ford IDS capability, not the use of FORScan (I'm a familar and comfortable FORScan user). Maybe I'm wrong (it was an admittedly very quick read of the thread), but if Ford IDS hardware / software tools are required that'd be a too-expensive deal breaker for me. In any case Good Luck and Have Fun with your venture!

As far as folks looking for an ideal-equipped F150 tow vehicle these days, methinks special-order and the patient wait is the way to go (just like getting a new Escape trailer, eh? )

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Centex

Yeah, I only scanned that thread rather quickly but it seemed success depended on true Ford IDS capability, not the use of FORScan (I'm a familar and comfortable FORScan user). Maybe I'm wrong (it was an admittedly very quick read of the thread), but if Ford IDS hardware / software tools are required that'd be a too-expensive deal breaker for me. In any case Good Luck and Have Fun with your venture!

As far as folks looking for an ideal-equipped F150 tow vehicle these days, methinks special-order and the patient wait is the way to go (just like getting a new Escape trailer, eh? )

Considering the number of those successful, my plan is to pay someone who has successfully installed ACC $500-1,000 for the install. It means that much to me. Never should have purchased our Subaru Outback with ACC!

Can't do it till next year anyway when the warranty runs out. This years discretionary money budget has been spent on electric blinds for the condo and solar/inverter/proper wiring for the 5.0.

Enjoy,

Perry

[brroberts]

Perry sorry for the Subaru problems. I had a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport that handled and drove great - when it ran. I spent thousands trying to keep it on the road based on all the reports about great Subaru reliability. I finally drove it to town on 3 cylinders at 139,000 miles and sold it. It was the most expensive vehicle both in cost and ongoing cost I ever had until I recently paid about 6K more for my new Ranger. I replaced it with a Toyota. Handling took a step back, but the only thing I’ve done to the Toyota besides tires, oil, and alignment is put an EVAP canister on it. I’ll never buy a Subie again.

As far as trucks, I’ve had good reliability with all of them.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by brroberts

Perry sorry for the Subaru problems. I had a 2002 Impreza Outback Sport that handled and drove great - when it ran. I spent thousands trying to keep it on the road based on all the reports about great Subaru reliability. I finally drove it to town on 3 cylinders at 139,000 miles and sold it. It was the most expensive vehicle both in cost and ongoing cost I ever had until I recently paid about 6K more for my new Ranger. I replaced it with a Toyota. Handling took a step back, but the only thing I’ve done to the Toyota besides tires, oil, and alignment is put an EVAP canister on it. I’ll never buy a Subie again.

I meant "Never should have purchased our Subaru Outback with ACC!" to be in jest. We love Outback! However if we hadn't purchased the Outback with ACC I never would have seen how attractive ACC could be when driving our 5.0.

So far at 46,000 miles our Outback has been trouble free and we have no intentions to trade until it reaches around 90,000 miles. At 90,000 miles we either trade or drive our vehicle till it drops. Our 2003 Honda Odyssey died at 277,000 trouble free miles from Minnesota rust, but it easily pulled our 2000 Scamp and 2007 Casita campers for about 80,000 miles. I still miss the Odyssey, but the Outback replacement is nearly as utilitarian. I only drive the F150 if Terry has the Outback or we are pulling our 5.0.

Enjoy,

Perry

[gbaglo]

I drove my Subaru Loyale GL wagon for 13 years. Even towed my tent trailer or boat with it, because I didn't know better. Glazed the brakes twice when I had to use them on a downhill.

Replaced with a '94 Ford Exploder ( 12 years ) and replaced it with RAV4 when I got the Escape. Now driving a Highlander XLE with little towing ( Covid Camping ).

Often wonder if Toyota reliability is due to faithful fulfillment of servicing by Toyota owners.

[jkordzi]

We tow our 2018 5.0TA with a 2017 GMC Canyon 4x4 double cab short bed V6. We use the Andersen ultimate ball hitch mounted on rails in the bed. We just traveled from Dallas to Sequim in Washington State. Starting w/ the 2017 model year, the Canyon came w/ an 8 speed transmission, which also has a tow mode. If we go up very steep grades (e.g., the Rockies), I generally have to slow down to 50 mph, but otherwise it easily tows at 70mph. This last trip we got 15 mpg.

[Carmel Clown]

Originally Posted by Lorraine Pittsburgh

Hi All,

Just in case anyone checks back on this thread, thanks to all of the input here & lots of additional research, I confidently placed an order for a new F150 XLT, super-cab, 6.5' bed, 5.0L V8, 4x4. Hoping to take delivery in Jan or Feb.

So appreciate y'all be so generous with your time & advice,
Stay well, Lorraine

Great! Just wondering if you bought a towing package and which did you choose? Thanks.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

Great! Just wondering if you bought a towing package and which did you choose? Thanks.

Not Lorraine but I tow my 5.0 Escape with a very similar 2022 F150 Lariat SuperCab 4x4, 3.5L EcoBoost, 6.5ft box.

I selected the Max Tow Package (option code 53C) in part because it's the only tow package that includes larger rear brakes (350mm x 24mm thick vs 336mm x 20mm on all others per Ford's F150 eSourceBook of technical specifications though that's not mentioned in the Ford RV & Trailer Towing Guide).

While the difference may not sound like much it's a big help in dissipating heat in stressful braking situations such as those involving frequent or long-duration braking as might be encountered in mountains.

Maybe worth noting that all of the current F150 with any of the several trailer tow packages get the same transmission (with tow-haul mode), the same transmission cooling, and for any given engine the same engine cooling.

More just FYI, here's the window sticker so you can see my total options list and resulting payload

[Lorraine Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

Great! Just wondering if you bought a towing package and which did you choose? Thanks.

Hi Sharon,

Alan/Centex is MUCH more knowledgeable about this than me, as is obvious from his detailed rationale for his choice. I too chose the Max Tow Package. When researching options, I could have explained why this one made sense to me, but once the decision was made, I promptly lost interest & forgot about the details. A nephew of mine, an engineer in an unrelated field, took a great interest in the various options, & he strongly recommended this package.

Best of luck as you sort through all of this!