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Old 08-24-2018, 09:12 PM   #41
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2wd

16 years ago when I was in the market for a Dodge Dakota. There were only 4wd located in Iowa. Expanding my search, Texas and Oklahoma were loaded with 2wd trucks. I had a 94 Dakota in 2wd and thought I wanted another but eventually got 4WD So that’s where they used to hide. Who knows now?
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Old 08-24-2018, 09:46 PM   #42
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Wow! 41 posts in a little over 7 hours. I think that's what the internet calls "Trending." I grew up on a cattle ranch in the mountains of Colorado, and every farm family had at least one 4x4 if you expected to get to town in the winter (we had four 4x4s if you include our WWII half track). They came in handy for feeding cattle after a blizzard and for pulling out "flat lander" tourists who couldn't keep their BMWs "between the fences". Now that I live on a farm in Alabama, I still find 4x4 handy for uphill climbs on wet grassy slopes, for maneuvering trailers in powder-sandy soils and keeping it safely in the middle of rain-soaked red clay back roads. Others here also find them handy for getting to that most excellent tailgating spot before attending SEC football games! That said, one of the most capable and fun winter rides I've ever owned was a 1971 VW Super Beetle (rear engine, rear wheel drive) driving narrow, winding back country roads in West Virginia winters. For those who worry about the extra weight of a 4-wheel drive, extra weight over traction wheels is usually an advantage for slippery road conditions.
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:11 PM   #43
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My post above reminded me of an exciting winter school bus ride to play a basketball game against Cripple Creek-Victor High School following a heavy snow so recent that the road hadn't been plowed yet. Going up hills, the driver had all of us crowd to the rear of the bus to put our collective body weight over the rear wheels for better drive traction. Then once we topped a hill, he had us all crowd toward the front of the bus to put our collective body weight more over the front wheels for better steering traction. We arrived safely, and by the time the basketball game ended, snowplows had cleared the road for a much less eventful trip home. A great Colorado winter memory....
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Old 08-25-2018, 02:20 AM   #44
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For a tow vehicle I drive a 4wd Tacoma ... Also have a Jeep Cherokee and both with BF Goodrich All Terrain KO2 tires. I like them and I like my 4WD vehicles. This spring in Mexico I ran out of road following a dirt / sand track, like 20 miles from the nearest hard surface road. Suddenly the road got rather narrow and I was stopped by the appearance of an arroyo. I was towing. Nothing to do but either back up for a mile with trailer or venture out into the soft sand of the arroyo and turn around. I did the later and was so very grateful for my Tacoma's 4wd and knobby tires as the sand was very soft.... even so my Escape followed obediently behind.

I think the real deal is what are your dreams of what you want to do with your trailer …. 4WD or 2WD.


Well of course … then there are the tires ……


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Old 08-25-2018, 09:10 AM   #45
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We live in NC on a mountain, and have friends that also live on mountain tops. All our cars are 4x4 ( except the Miata/MX-5 ) . I will not buy a 4x2 as 4x4 is a requirement to ascend many of the roads and driveways we see everyday here. As I like to say " It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. ".



One of the strangest experiences I had where 4x4 saved us, was camping among pine trees on FLAT ground. The trees were stressed by pine beetles, and were all dropping their needles. When we were ready to depart, our tow vehicle just spun on the pine needles, unable to get any traction at all and move our trailer. Putting it in 4x4 saved the day once again.



I will also say, locking rear differentials are great, but you'll need a nice straight path to not put excessive stress on the drive train when using it, so it's not always applicable. Things start to break if you start turning with the diff locked.



4x4 is the way to go IMHO. Nowadays it's just so reliable, and really doesn't cost that much more. It's a necessity for us.
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:51 AM   #46
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SFDavis50 - Great thought on the BLISS and backup, I am looking at the Lariat for the leather heated and cooled seats along with some other luxuries. I too am looking for the SuperCab as well and same as you I am finding 4X2 but SuperCrews. As far as ordering you may want to check out the Costco price for use as a pricing benchmark.
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:59 AM   #47
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White Hell in Finland - Nokian Tyres tests its winter tires

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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Whenever White Hell hit Vancouver, we Vancouver Sun photographers got sent out to find the worst of it, driving our Chrysler Neons ( or was it Dodge? ). I wouldn't recommend it, but I never got stuck.

Of course, we didn't care if the cars made it back to the office or not. I retired in 2012 and turned in my 2000 Neon. To my knowledge, the guys who remain are still driving those 18-year-old cars.
Newspaper business isn't what it used to be.
Interesting article, I have heard from a dealer that these are the "Cadillac" of winter tires. Nokian Tyres tests its winter tires / https://www.nokiantires.com/innovati...esting-center/
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:32 PM   #48
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I grew up with 2 wheel drive pickups, I have owned full size and pint size. The best I ever had was an International with a possi track, I would put on good winter tires and an old 390 in the back for weight and I could push snow with that truck. I now have a Tacoma with the off road package, this truck has more off road capabilities than I need. One thing I’d like to point out if you put a 2 wheel drive in a slide on ice you can sometime drive out of it, with a 4 wheel drive in the same skid its over till your in the ditch. Maybe it’s just my abilities with a 2 wheel drive, like some have stated give me a wheel drive with a locking diff and a set of chains.
I would like to hear from those who have 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive in a compare able set up and find out the difference in fuel economy
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:50 PM   #49
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I would like to hear from those who have 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive in a compare able set up and find out the difference in fuel economy
I've looked at this for the last couple of years, and although I don't have anything except the EPA estimates and anecdotal evidence from other owners to go on, I can tell you my opinion regarding just the F150.

With the same model, engine, trim level and all else being essentially equal, you can expect 2 mpg less with a 4x4 not towing. When you are towing, the impact is a little less - maybe 1 mpg lower with the 4x4.

This tells me fuel economy is probably the last reason for deciding on a 4x4 vs a 4x2. Get what works best for you - and that's largely based on where you live, and what roads you drive.
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:50 PM   #50
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...One thing I’d like to point out if you put a 2 wheel drive in a slide on ice you can sometime drive out of it, with a 4 wheel drive in the same skid its over till your in the ditch. ...

I agree, but only if you're driving around with 4x4 engaged, which isn't always the case ( I don't do that ). Most modern 4x4's with full-time 4x4/AWD also include traction control, which should negate the "spin" effect you're talking about. Personally, I only use 4x4 when needed, so effectively I am driving a 4x2 until I flip that 4x4 switch.



Getting stuck in 4x2 isn't that hard, getting unstuck in 4x4 is much easier.
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:57 PM   #51
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Thanks for the quick replies, I was thinking the fuel mileage difference would be more good to know it is so little.
Yes getting unstuck with a 4X4 is much easier.
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Old 08-25-2018, 02:24 PM   #52
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The biggest downside of 4x4---probably worse than mileage, weight, and cost---is the potential to make you overconfident of the conditions and your driving ability. They only enhance acceleration and do nothing for braking. The safest vehicle on ice is the one in the garage.
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Old 08-25-2018, 02:55 PM   #53
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The biggest downside of 4x4---probably worse than mileage, weight, and cost---is the potential to make you overconfident of the conditions and your driving ability. They only enhance acceleration and do nothing for braking. The safest vehicle on ice is the one in the garage.

Superior mechanics or engineering does not cause poor judgment. Overconfidence is a form of driver error, and in no way the fault of any 4WD system. To put it another way, I disagree that overconfidence is a downside of 4WD. Taking such a driver out of a 4x4 is not going to remove their poor judgement.
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Old 08-25-2018, 03:19 PM   #54
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The biggest downside of 4x4---probably worse than mileage, weight, and cost---is the potential to make you overconfident of the conditions and your driving ability. They only enhance acceleration and do nothing for braking. The safest vehicle on ice is the one in the garage.
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Superior mechanics or engineering does not cause poor judgment. Overconfidence is a form of driver error, and in no way the fault of any 4WD system. To put it another way, I disagree that overconfidence is a downside of 4WD. Taking such a driver out of a 4x4 is not going to remove their poor judgement.
I agree it won't remove poor judgement, but without it, it would likely keep them or get them off the road sooner. I would venture to say that during bad weather you will see 4 wheelers in trouble at a higher ratio to the vehicles on the road at that time. As far as getting stuck the all season tires will take that prize.
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Old 08-25-2018, 03:22 PM   #55
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I agree it won't remove poor judgement, but it likely keep them or get them off the road sooner. I would venture to say that during bad weather you will see 4 wheelers in trouble at a higher ratio to the vehicles on the road at that time. As far as getting stuck the all season tires will take that prize.

I concur on all counts. Just disagree with blaming the drive system for Operator Error. Place blame where rightfully due.
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:51 PM   #56
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I would venture to say that during bad weather you will see 4 wheelers in trouble at a higher ratio to the vehicles on the road at that time.
Yes, that's my experience. I agree with others that while overconfidence is the problem, that's the fault of the drivers and not the vehicles or their drive systems.

One day on the way to work I found four vehicles in the ditch at the same intersection (where I was turning from a rural road onto a highway)... and all were 4WD. I shook my head, laughed, and continued on my way in 2WD car, without even limited-slip or traction control... but with winter tires.
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:35 PM   #57
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Agreed. Driver Error...except if its icy: Then its the fault of the ice, or the road sanding crews, or the person stopping in front of them with Nokian winter tires
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Old 08-25-2018, 06:14 PM   #58
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... but with winter tires.
And then lies one of the biggest issues with owners that think they don't need winter tires because they have either AWD or 4WD. Putting winter tires on my truck makes a world of difference, and towing like I do most of the winter, I would not consider otherwise.

All our cars for the past 30 years have been front wheel drive, and they have performed great with winter tires. This is partially due to the fact there is good weight on the front drive wheels. Conversely, a pickup with 2WD drive fairs poorly under slippery conditions, even with winter tires, unless a lot of weight is put in the bed.
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Old 08-25-2018, 07:07 PM   #59
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I was one who was cocky with a 4wd. I had a 3/4 ton with big snow tires and a snow plow. One day I took Cathy to work in a rageing blizard and went back home through the country. I was blasting through 2 and 3 ft. drifts when I found a small car stuck in the middle of nowhere. I pulled them out and plowed a path for them back to town. I have always felt I saved their lives.

As for the blizzard, this was in Northeast Iowa in 1981. Just ask Iowa Dave what kind of winter weather we had there back then. Loren
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Old 08-25-2018, 07:19 PM   #60
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I was one who was cocky with a 4wd.
You sound like one of those guys who terrorize smaller vehicles on the road with a big 4x4.

Yeah, I'm one of those type too. I love blasting through deep snow with all tires spinning while in total control. You can't see it, but I'm smiling just thinking about it.

BTW, I never put anyone else in jeopardy while doing this.
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