Article on cellphone service in national parks

[rbryan4]

Still can't figure it out Alan. How in the world did we have 2 bars of 3G at Chisos Basin? Maybe being a radio expert you can shed some light. It was Verizon, using a MiFi in the cradle. My Verizon phone outside the cradle had 1 to 3 bars of 1x coverage. The map now shows some 3G coverage on Gamo Springs Road, but not in the basin.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Still can't figure it out Alan. How in the world did we have 2 bars of 3G at Chisos Basin? Maybe being a radio expert you can shed some light. It was Verizon, using a MiFi in the cradle. My Verizon phone outside the cradle had 1 to 3 bars of 1x coverage. The map now shows some 3G coverage on Gamo Springs Road, but not in the basin.

Well, I'm puzzled about a couple of things. I do not know of a "Gamo Springs" in Big Bend NP. Might this be in Big Bend State Park? Also, I don't recognize that map - it looks slightly similar to the Chisos Basin road but not close enough to be a match.

But a general answer to your question is: Radio waves over 70 Mhz (more or less) can bounce off solid objects like buildings and mountain sides. Perhaps that is how you caught a signal up in the Chisos. Note, I have not spent much time up there with a cell phone, but will be doing so this spring and may have a better answer for you. I am counting on some bounce to help with my Ham radio. Also, on rare occasions, VHF radio waves will bounce off rain clouds, cold fronts, other weather events that have sharp (relatively) edges. Usually these are quite temporary.

--
Alan

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Well, I'm puzzled about a couple of things. I do not know of a "Gamo Springs" in Big Bend NP. Might this be in Big Bend State Park? Also, I don't recognize that map - it looks slightly similar to the Chisos Basin road but not close enough to be a match.

Thanks for the explanation. This seemed to be constant, not temporary, as we were at Chisos for several days and always had a signal.

Nope, the National Park. "Gamo" was a typo. It's called Gano Springs on the map, the road running east/west north of Chisos Basin, between Basin Junction and Santa Elena Junction. Here's a google map.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Nope, the National Park. "Gamo" was a typo. It's called Gano Springs on the map, the road running east/west north of Chisos Basin, between Basin Junction and Santa Elena Junction. Here's a google map.
...

Ok, at least I think I have solved the geography mystery...

For reasons known only to Google they call that section of the road "Gano Springs" road. Us "locals" call it (Brewster County) 118. There is a Gano Springs but it is a few miles away from the dot that Google has assigned. And general vicinity of the dot has a fair line-of-sight to the AT&T tower - which probably doesn't have anything to do with your Verizon signal.

But back to the original radio question. I am wondering if while at the Chisos Basin perhaps you were picking up the Lodge public signal and amplifying it with your equipment? Just a guess...

--
Alan

Added a couple of maps with an edit.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Also, on rare occasions, VHF radio waves will bounce off rain clouds, cold fronts, other weather events that have sharp (relatively) edges. Usually these are quite temporary.

--
Alan

I occasionally participate in local ham radio VHF nets. About a year ago I was listening in to a local net and heard call-ins from South Carolina. They could hear us as well. Atmospheric conditions had allowed a path to open up between SC and the Florida panhandle. It only lasted that night. Cellphones are essentially UHF radios that operate on line-of-sight with the tower, but such "skip" conditions between a phone and a remote cell tower could also happen.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

But back to the original radio question. I am wondering if while at the Chisos Basin perhaps you were picking up the Lodge public signal and amplifying it with your equipment? Just a guess...

I doubt it, unless the lodge transmits 3G and not Wi-Fi. This was a cell signal.

[gbaglo]

Google maps instructs me to drive in a large circle to get to a road I access by turning right. It wants me to go straight, turn left, turn right, turn right, turn right and drive past my house to get to the road. It sees my house, so it should know that circling the neighbourhood is a waste of time and gas.

[Mike Lewis]

Chisos Basin, being a basin in an arid mountain range, is a perfect "radio shadow". It would have been a great site for a radio observatory. NASA / NSF missed out on this one, as Big Bend National Park was established before they were.

[Rossue]

Verizon very well may have co-located on the "AT&T tower"- which probably is not owned anymore by them as they sold or leased 9700 towers in 2013 to raise cash for a stock buy back.

[Vermilye]

It is amazing how cell tower signals can "sneak" around mountains & buildings. While driving through Joshua Tree National Park, my Verizon Jetpack went from no signal to 3G, 4GLTE, and back to no signal, sometimes within 100'.

My most interesting long distance radio connection was while in Viet Nam. Using a PRC25 "portable" (it weighed almost 25 lbs) 2 watt VHF (30 - 76MHZ) FM radio, I carried on a conversation with an artillery unit in Korea. It took us awhile to discover that we were over 2000 miles apart, talking on a radio designed for a 5 mile range. The atmospheric skip conditions held for about an hour, then went away.

You don't get skip at cell frequencies, but it is an interesting phenomenon...

[Mike Lewis]

I recall having some level of signal in the Chisos Basin campground, but not enough to be usable. I had a setup similar to Robert's: A Verizon hotspot in an amplified cradle. I think I got 1X at one to two bars. Couldn't do anything with it, and I think it was intermittent, anyway.

One of my goals for 2018 is to improve the comms in my trailer: in-line cellphone amp for the hotspot, permanent mounts for my TV, ham radio and wideband receiver, better connections. Even more antennas.

[steve dunham]

This summer my goal is to design and build a lightweight portable 75 ft cell phone antenna tower that is capable of withstanding 120 mph wind gusts . I am hoping that when we boondock camp we can still stay fully connected
I have budgeted $9000 for the tower materials but I believe my estimate may be low .
One of my main concerns is getting the assembly time down to a reasonable time frame for weekend campouts and being able to collapse and transport the tower efficiently.

[rbryan4]

Always good to have a dream.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

This summer my goal is to design and build a lightweight portable 75 ft cell phone antenna tower that is capable of withstanding 120 mph wind gusts . I am hoping that when we boondock camp we can still stay fully connected
I have budgeted $9000 for the tower materials but I believe my estimate may be low .
One of my main concerns is getting the assembly time down to a reasonable time frame for weekend campouts and being able to collapse and transport the tower efficiently.

It's January 1, not April

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Rossue

It's January 1, not April

Fooling people is an April thing, mocking must be January?

[oldwave]

Having spent thirty years working for the NPS and the last 20 years as a communications and it specialist , the notion that cell service can be established in all remote areas is a little naive. If you are going to be off the grid and safety is on your mind there are non cell sat alternatives for locations at a not unreasonable cost . Many locations in the NPS have major issues just establishing internal communications due to geography and lack of infrastructure. One of my many projects was establishing connectivity 55 miles across Lake Superior to Ilse Royale (sorry no Escapes allowed there). Philosophical issues aside, there are major challengers in many of these magnificent placers that will precluded universal coverage Sat beacons are the best bet if you are to be off the grid for safety.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Fooling people is an April thing, mocking must be January?

Good to know , I will have to remember that in the future .
Thank you

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

This summer my goal is to design and build a lightweight portable 75 ft cell phone antenna tower that is capable of withstanding 120 mph wind gusts .

You mean like this?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

You mean like this?

Similar , except the pole would be tear shaped so it could be turned into the wind and be more aerodynamic and thus mechanically stronger
Plus possibly a different base to lend more stability.

My current cabin antenna mast is a 36 ft wooden pole with a ten ft metal mast at the top or a total height of approx 45 ft .
The antenna'a elevation is slightly too low and stations drift in and out .
Luckily the main pole is held in place with 1" Bolts so I can lower the main mast and increase the length of the metal mast pole thus raising the antenna height I am hoping a height of 50 to 55 ft will be sufficient .. The other issue is if the antenna rotor can take the strain of the increased metal mast height.
By my calculations the antenna is borderline so I need to do more research.