New possible troubles in the National Parks

[Hollybee]

Report out last nite..the IG urges the Dept of Interior to..set up procedures to help Park employees monitor prison inmates on "work release" in many of the nation's National Parks.
The issue apparently stems from several recent incidents of prisoners left unattended at several NPs, Campgrounds and other facilities in the National Park System (no mention of which parks)
https://justthenews.com/accountabili...-work-national

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Hollybee

Report out last nite..the IG urges the Dept of Interior to..set up procedures to help Park employees monitor prison inmates on "work release" in many of the nation's National Parks.
The issue apparently stems from several recent incidents of prisoners left unattended at several NPs, Campgrounds and other facilities in the National Park System (no mention of which parks)
https://justthenews.com/accountabili...-work-national

Not trying to be contrary, here, but what is the major concern? Any prisoner on “work release” is likely a low security prisoner. Violent offenders are typically not included in there types of programs. It is probable that the prisoners in question are petty thieves, white collar criminals (like Martha Stewart), or drug violators, the type of prisoners often spotted picking up trash on the side of the road with an unarmed supervisor. Many of these prisoners would not think of committing another crime; they just want to do their time, be released, and resume their lives. The Charles Manson types remain in lock-up. Of far more concern are the psychopaths who have not. Been identified. They pose a much greater threat to society, like the couple who murdered a couple on South Padre Island and stole their truck and RV, or the nut case who just made the news in Nova Scotia.

[Hollybee]

I posted that as simply an "informational warning". It bothered me not a bit that the gvt has prisoners doing WORK ...to repay society, but since we already know they 're now also letting go violent sex offenders, bks of the virus mess, who really knows? They don't wear color-coded uniforms to ID their crimes, I guess and from this article it appears that supervision of them is often non-existent. They seem to be able to wander around NP campgrounds at will, and THAT was my concern. Not really for myself as much as for my wife and family members.FWIW

[cpaharley2008]

One can always avoid NP until this new rule takes effect and eliminates lax supervision.

[Iowa Dave]

In Northeast Iowa the state established a work camp with dormitory type housing many years ago. The inmates were taught manual skills, taught to run tractors and mowers and assisted state crews in the management of the adjacent state parks and state forestry land. I watched these people do manual labor tasks where I often camped for about 45 years. They were courteous and diligent in doing their assignments. So naturally our governor closed this camp in the last few years. It was the second most pathetic move she has made. Her handling of the Covid 19 PANDEMIC allowed her to use a track hoe to dig her legacy to new depths.
Reintegration into society with marketable skills is an enlightened process that will work for many people who took a wrong turn in life. Something has to change in this country because the way we’re handling incarceration, education, and preparation for leading a prosperous life as a productive citizens sure as hell ain’t working now.
Reverend Dave is on the pulpit, can I have an Amen?
Iowa Dave

[cpaharley2008]

Well said Dave. Government controlled skillset operations were successful during the Great Depression. I had an uncle who participated in the Civilian Conservation Corp or "CCC" who worked on many national park improvements and campgrounds. It was a way to employ those out of work and teach them skills. What is that saying, "give a man a fish you feed him once, teach him how to fish and you feed him a lifetime".

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Hollybee

I posted that as simply an "informational warning". It bothered me not a bit that the gvt has prisoners doing WORK ...to repay society, but since we already know they 're now also letting go violent sex offenders, bks of the virus mess, who really knows? They don't wear color-coded uniforms to ID their crimes, I guess and from this article it appears that supervision of them is often non-existent. They seem to be able to wander around NP campgrounds at will, and THAT was my concern. Not really for myself as much as for my wife and family members.FWIW

I am aware it was informational. I’m not sure why it bothers you that the government has prisoners working when some politicians and members of congress seem to be guilty of criminal behavior! Now before anyone has a conniption, THAT’s A JOKE....

I seriously doubt that prisoners on work release pose any threat for your wife or family members. Correctional professionals do not release just anyone. I have seen county inmates working in Florida State Parks.

And Dave, a big Iowa Amen for you on this first Sunday in May!

[Thane]

Thanks for the heads up. From the article it sounds like the threat may be more to prison staff and other inmates.

The problems surfaced during a recent Inspector General investigation that discovered that inmates convicted of firearms and drug offenses had obtained dangerous contraband, including knives and tools, after being left unsupervised for two hours in a national park campground while on a prison-release work detail.

[LarryLSB]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I am aware it was informational. I’m not sure why it bothers you that the government has prisoners working when some politicians and members of congress seem to be guilty of criminal behavior! Now before anyone has a conniption, THAT’s A JOKE....

I seriously doubt that prisoners on work release pose any threat for your wife or family members. Correctional professionals do not release just anyone. I have seen county inmates working in Florida State Parks.

And Dave, a big Iowa Amen for you on this first Sunday in May!

I spent my working life with California State Parks, on the technical side, and worked and supervised Youth Wards and Adult Prisoners on Park projects, from the State Agencies responsible for them. Over 35 years, had a handful of issues; one stolen truck, missing PVC glue (taken back to camp to sell for sniffing), sniffing chainsaw gas, and one instance of a female park aid being accosted in a rest room (ended for the best). Supervision is key to making sure inmates and wards are always accounted for and IMO, they shouldn't be working in areas that are open to the public. We generally only worked them in areas that were closed. If we had to have them in open public areas, we increased the number of staff who worked with them. Now these are state inmates, not County or what we called weekend warriors.

[Rossue]

Remembering Cool Hand Luke and don't fear the guys on the work detail too much. It's the people that are let out early due to overcrowding and now Covid and are overwhelming probation's ability to keep tabs on.

In April 2017 we were ending up a 5 week trip and stayed at Bear River County Park near Colfax off I-80. Nice little spot on the river. We were approached after setting up by a neighbor stating we could get a ticket as our 21 unhooked was cheating a foot or two into the next site. I said we'll deal with it- thank you. He went to sleep in his car yet turned on his motor at 1 AM. It wasn't even that cold as it was almost May. Asked him to turn off and does- yet resumes at 3AM. Asked again and got some weird pushback. Reminded him of quiet hours.

We got home and we read an article that made us understand better what was going on. Susan called the County Parks head who was very interested. Next day the place is raided and four people arrested. Reminder of situational awareness. If people seem sketchy they probably are.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...territory.html

[lorrie]

Amen! Wish more people thought like you Iowa Dave.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

In Northeast Iowa the state established a work camp with dormitory type housing many years ago. The inmates were taught manual skills, taught to run tractors and mowers and assisted state crews in the management of the adjacent state parks and state forestry land. I watched these people do manual labor tasks where I often camped for about 45 years. They were courteous and diligent in doing their assignments. So naturally our governor closed this camp in the last few years. It was the second most pathetic move she has made. Her handling of the Covid 19 PANDEMIC allowed her to use a track hoe to dig her legacy to new depths.
Reintegration into society with marketable skills is an enlightened process that will work for many people who took a wrong turn in life. Something has to change in this country because the way we’re handling incarceration, education, and preparation for leading a prosperous life as a productive citizens sure as hell ain’t working now.
Reverend Dave is on the pulpit, can I have an Amen?
Iowa Dave

If they are working for the public, they can't labor in private prisons.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I am aware it was informational. I’m not sure why it bothers you that the government has prisoners working when some politicians and members of congress seem to be guilty of criminal behavior! Now before anyone has a conniption, THAT’s A JOKE....

I seriously doubt that prisoners on work release pose any threat for your wife or family members. Correctional professionals do not release just anyone. I have seen county inmates working in Florida State Parks.

And Dave, a big Iowa Amen for you on this first Sunday in May!

Well the work crew we saw in NC a couple years back where being guarded by 2 guys on horseback armed with 12 gauge shotguns. Thinking maybe someone thought they needed some serious supervision.

[Hollybee]

Originally Posted by Chotch

Well the work crew we saw in NC a couple years back where being guarded by 2 guys on horseback armed with 12 gauge shotguns. Thinking maybe someone thought they needed some serious supervision.

Yup..we're used to seeing County Jail crews in orange or striped unis around central TN and down in MS & AL..never saw one un-supevised in a campground tho..always see overseers on horses or more often in PU trucks. Neve had a problem w these guys learning a trade or getting real rehab..tho the recidivism rate of 'sex offenders' runs around 95% in many studies. FWIW

[lostskier]

Amen Dave.

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by Chotch

Well the work crew we saw in NC a couple years back where being guarded by 2 guys on horseback armed with 12 gauge shotguns. Thinking maybe someone thought they needed some serious supervision.

When we took the Boy Scouts on High Adventure to Florida, Alabama and Mississippi, we spent the better part of a day driving from Mobile where we had stayed overnight on the Battleship Alabama back up to Fort Knox. Along the way we saw three separate crews chained together, whacking weeds with along the Interstate. Those Boy Scouts were at the age where they did not let adults know that anything impressed them. They were babbling away when we passed the first crew, guarded by an officer with his trusty 870 Remington. It got quiet in the van. I spoke first, I said “and if some of you guys don’t straighten up, you will be right there with them someday.” There were no smart ass comebacks that day. Later a mom thanked me for taking her boy on the trip. Fort Knox, the Corvette factory, the Corvette Museum, Mammoth Cave, Eglin AFB, Naval air museum at Pensacola, Battleship Alabama and what he talked about most were the prisoners chained together and guarded with a shotgun. She said it made quite an impression.
Iowa Dave

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Chotch

Well the work crew we saw in NC a couple years back where being guarded by 2 guys on horseback armed with 12 gauge shotguns. Thinking maybe someone thought they needed some serious supervision.

I can understand that line of thought. Then again, I realize I could have been a first grader at Sandy Hook Elementary, or a concert goer in Las Vegas, or a movie goer in a theater in Colorado, or a shopper in an El Paso Walmart, a commuter going over a bridge in Minneapolis, or a tourist atop a building on September 11 in New York City. A few drug offenders or minor sex offenders don’t frighten me. While I am cautious, even in these days of COVID-19 or in the 1950s as a child before the polio vaccine was developed, I choose not to live in fear when the possibility of a major earthquake, a tornado, a hurricane, a cancer causing mutation, or an evil person seeking to do harm are all beyond my control. The truth is that you are far more likely of being injured or killed driving on the roads and byways by a drunk driver than by the typical work release prisoner, whether under shotgun toting guards or not. And in the National Parks I am personally not going to fear prisoners more than bison, bears, wolves, venemous snakes, and other dangerous wildlife.

[UncleTim]

Amen, I am having a "come to Dave" moment!

The last time I checked, 95% of people in prisons will be re introduced back into society. Maybe this is an opportunity for us all to view them differently.

Like people that just made a mistake and are working thru it.

Amen!

[cpaharley2008]

Yes, we all have made mistakes, what is that saying "to err is human, to forgive is divine". Some of us just made bigger mistakes and got caught, some of us did not get caught! Life goes on....

[outdoorman]

I don't see the reason for alarm about having work-release inmates assigned to work in the National Parks.
They are people just like you and me only difference is they got caught for their mistakes whereas by the grace of God we didn't.
Let them serve their time being productive without being judged a second time.
Truth be told, I'm more concerned of those 'respectable' members of society that are orchestrating crimes and getting away with it.
Also, I believe once a convicted person pays the debt determined by the law, they should have a clean slate.