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Old 10-24-2015, 07:46 PM   #21
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I had the pleasure of meeting Jim and Evon Oliver a number of years ago when they brought three Oliver trailers to the Oregon Gathering. Nice people. BUT, the owners call a lot of the items in their trailers as "jewelry." Honestly, does a marine-grade stainless steel hook hold a baseball cap better than an Umbra or Command Hook ? I think part of the expense of an Oliver is not so much in the build, but all those shiny extras.


One thing that Oliver is doing that I really wish ETI would look at, is the furnace. Both trailers are tubed... but Oliver runs the heat outlets through the floor and has heat registers rather than ONE heat outlet. More of home heating than RV. Hummm.
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Old 10-24-2015, 07:50 PM   #22
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Agree with you Bill; Escape is in the sweet spot with cost vs. value. Oliver does have some nice looking features, notably their double-step. Reminds me of the 1Up bike rack in build quality.
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:36 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
One thing that Oliver is doing that I really wish ETI would look at, is the furnace. Both trailers are tubed... but Oliver runs the heat outlets through the floor and has heat registers rather than ONE heat outlet. More of home heating than RV. Hummm.
The Atwood 8012 furnace previously used in Escapes had unusually low electrical power demand because it had a low-power fan, which was adequate because it was a direct-discharge furnace (meaning no ducts to push air through). The AFSAD12 furnace now used in Escapes is installed in a non-ducted configuration (thus the one outlet, and the inlet surrounding the outlet), but is available as a ducted furnace as well (AFSD12), at the cost of 3.4 amps instead of 2.4 amps of electrical current. I would link to information from the manufacturer, but they still don't have it on their websites (either Atwood Mobile or Ask For Atwood). The unducted and ducted options can be seen in the manual in this forum's document collection.

While an Oliver Legacy has a "basement" containing tanks and other hardware, the portion of the floor of an Escape between the frame rails is flooring directly on plywood directly on the fiberglass "tub" directly on the frame... there is nowhere for under-floor ducts. There is some space in the "pontoon" sections on each side, but ducts in there would not be accessible. I think that a ducted furnace installation would require the ducts to run in cabinets - perhaps forward and aft outlets from a centrally located furnace (which is where an Escape furnace is now), with the return air directly into the furnace.

I agree that if the ducting can be handled, ducted would be desirable. Ducted heat is normal in larger RVs.
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:57 PM   #24
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Too circulate air in the 5.0, especially into the loft, I plan on installing a circulating fan. One that can easily be redirected. Or possibly two. Caframo makes some nice marine 12V ones that draw well less than 1/2 amp. These would be beneficial for heating or cooling.

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Old 10-24-2015, 09:53 PM   #25
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You have to take what some folks say on any forum with a grain of salt. Buckets of water coming down from condensation? No way. That is, if you turn on the Maxx Fan and crack a window or two. That's just being silly. My suspicion is that the poster wanted to set up his comment along the lines of "never happens with an Oliver with the double wall hull."

They're fine units, and built like a brick house, to be sure - but everything comes at a price. I still think the Escape finds the sweet spot between cost, features and quality, and nothing I've seen in the fiberglass world so far has changed my opinion.
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Too circulate air in the 5.0, especially into the loft, I plan on installing a circulating fan. One that can easily be redirected. Or possibly two. Caframo makes some nice marine 12V ones that draw well less than 1/2 amp. These would be beneficial for heating or cooling.

Marine - Caframo Lifestyle Solutions
It has been my experience that a fan is not necessary to circulate heat or cool air into the loft. Heat rises up there very well and the A/C readily blows up. Or if you open the loft Windows and use the Maxxfan you get plenty of cool air coming in. We just returned from a trip to the mountains of northern Georgia. The last two mornings it was 38 and 36 degrees (Farenheit) respectively. Not much above freezing. I ran a small ceramic heater on the low setting (1000w vs 1500w on high setting) and the 5.0 stayed at 72-75 degrees F. I had to kick the covers off because it warmer than I like for sleeping. And the A/C has kept the loft cool enough in hot, humid weather.
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Old 10-25-2015, 01:31 AM   #27
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I suppose if you were as dumb as a post, keep all the windows and hatches sealed and boiled a kettle non-stop you could get BUCKETS of water streaming down the walls. Really

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Old 10-25-2015, 02:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Too circulate air in the 5.0, especially into the loft, I plan on installing a circulating fan. One that can easily be redirected. Or possibly two. Caframo makes some nice marine 12V ones that draw well less than 1/2 amp. These would be beneficial for heating or cooling.

Marine - Caframo Lifestyle Solutions
Hi: Jim Bennett... The MaxxFan in our 5.0TA runs like a ceiling fan with the lid closed unlike the one in our 5.0 that had a shut off switch for when the lid was closed. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 10-25-2015, 05:34 AM   #29
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Agree with you Bill; Escape is in the sweet spot with cost vs. value. Oliver does have some nice looking features, notably their double-step. Reminds me of the 1Up bike rack in build quality.
Oliver's sales manager, Robert Partee, told me they had to make that stout aluminum double-step themselves, since they couldn't find one to buy. I'm fine with what is commercially available.
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:07 AM   #30
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Regarding condensation. We use our 17b a total of 9 weeks last winter in temps as low as -23 degrees F. With heat and the top vent open about 1" there was no condensation on the walls. Moderate condensation formed on both the double pane and single pane windows once temps fell below, say 25 degrees. The worse condensation (frost) occured on the metal window frames as they are apparently an effecient thermal bridge to the outside. We have covered all the window frames with insulating tape to mitigate this in the future. Our solution to the condensation is wait until the frost melted in the morning and then wipe the wet surfaces down. Bit of a chore but no big deal.
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:30 AM   #31
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I suppose if you were as dumb as a post, keep all the windows and hatches sealed and boiled a kettle non-stop you could get BUCKETS of water streaming down the walls. Really

Ron
I fully agree. I will go out on a limb, perhaps breaking the forum's rules, and express my opinion that the individual who made the "buckets" statement is a flippin' idiot. Humidity? I'll give you humidity. Try Florida in the summer when it's 95% on dry days and 100% on hot, rainy days. I run a dehumidifier inside my trailer when it is "in storage" and it stays between 45 and 50 % without running constantly; it cycles on and off. I don't even have to empty the tub as I run a hose to the sink, through the gray tank, and outside through a short hose to the ground. When I camp, I have an Ecoseb dehumidifier that easily keeps humidity levels 45 to 50 %, and would do so in a "Utah blizzard" which has nowhere near the humidity producing capacity that the months of May through September in Florida have.
I have looked at Oliver trailers, toured the factory, and agree they are well thought out and well built. They are also very heavy and in my opinion, very sterile looking inside. Reminded me of a doctor's office. Had they made their original shorter trailer with tandem axles, I might have bought one. But the latest model is not only too heavy for my likes, it is too long to easily maneuver in my driveway.
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:50 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
I had the pleasure of meeting Jim and Evon Oliver a number of years ago when they brought three Oliver trailers to the Oregon Gathering. Nice people. BUT, the owners call a lot of the items in their trailers as "jewelry." Honestly, does a marine-grade stainless steel hook hold a baseball cap better than an Umbra or Command Hook ? I think part of the expense of an Oliver is not so much in the build, but all those shiny extras.


One thing that Oliver is doing that I really wish ETI would look at, is the furnace. Both trailers are tubed... but Oliver runs the heat outlets through the floor and has heat registers rather than ONE heat outlet. More of home heating than RV. Hummm.
Hi: Donna D... Wow!!! I didn't realize when I installed a S/S hook on the closet door it was considered "Jewelry". The custom forged hooks on the bathroom door from Ian& Jenny Eddy ensures my ETI cap receives the very best hanging. Ian Eddy Blacksmith | Wrought Iron by Ian Eddy Blacksmith Studio
Our first encounter with an Oliver trailer in Tenn. was the fact that one of the owners of the company came to the rally in his 40' Moho.
As for condensation a total ban on breathing would take care of it... but an imitation chamois is more humane.
I would think a ducted furnace would loose more heat than transmit!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:52 AM   #33
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The only Oliver I have seen in person was a 17' in Big Bend National Park. I thought it was well done and very nice but not that much nicer than our Escape. I looked at the Legacy II online and they have some nice features like the pull out battery drawer, the nicer countertops etc. but as others have pointed out, there is a price in weight and dollars. The real problem for us is that we love having the bed in the front of the trailer and and the dining area in the rear.

Long ago we were visiting my parents with our new daughter. One of was going on and on about how beautiful she was. My mother smiled and said 'Every sow thinks her pig is the whitest'. I have no idea where she came up with that saying, but I am often reminded of it. In this case I guess you could say that every trailer owner thinks his/her egg is the whitest.
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:19 AM   #34
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Escape could install the ducted model in the 5th and 19 models and run an opening thru the wall to the bath, located right next to the heater. The 21 model would need a duct under the bed over to the bath. That is where you want your heat in cold weather, the bath is probably the coldest spot in the trailer.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:04 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
It has been my experience that a fan is not necessary to circulate heat or cool air into the loft. Heat rises up there very well and the A/C readily blows up. Or if you open the loft Windows and use the Maxxfan you get plenty of cool air coming in. We just returned from a trip to the mountains of northern Georgia. The last two mornings it was 38 and 36 degrees (Farenheit) respectively. Not much above freezing. I ran a small ceramic heater on the low setting (1000w vs 1500w on high setting) and the 5.0 stayed at 72-75 degrees F. I had to kick the covers off because it warmer than I like for sleeping. And the A/C has kept the loft cool enough in hot, humid weather.
I had a couple members PM and email me when I mentioned the idea before, both saying that they found it beneficial using portable fans circulating into the loft. I was thinking a mounted one would be nicer, but still thinking.
Quote:
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Hi: Jim Bennett... The MaxxFan in our 5.0TA runs like a ceiling fan with the lid closed unlike the one in our 5.0 that had a shut off switch for when the lid was closed. Alf
Interesting thought, Alf. Does it draw enough to circulate well?
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The custom forged hooks on the bathroom door from Ian& Jenny Eddy ensures my ETI cap receives the very best hanging.
I still carry the wee fire poker he made for me back in May, 2009. A very crafty fellow, he is.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:35 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Escape could install the ducted model in the 5th and 19 models and run an opening thru the wall to the bath, located right next to the heater. The 21 model would need a duct under the bed over to the bath. That is where you want your heat in cold weather, the bath is probably the coldest spot in the trailer.
There was kind of a flap when ETI moved the furnace in the 21 to the front of the trailer and some storage space was lost. But I think it is an excellent location with the heat close to the bath and actually shooting at it. As for condensation, I kept the max fan vent open about an inch and turned the heat up a little. At 28F, condensation was a non issue. Plus there are more than just several words devoted to this issue in the Escape owners manual. When everything else fails, read the directions.

Also coming back from Chilliwack, we met another Escape owner with a 19 in Oregon which was one year old. He mentioned condensation problems and the fact that he did not read the Escape forum. I saw several things that he was doing wrong, most notably having the gate open on his black water tank while hooked up the the campground's facilities. Loren
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Old 10-25-2015, 02:01 PM   #37
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Ducted furnace possibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Escape could install the ducted model in the 5th and 19 models and run an opening thru the wall to the bath, located right next to the heater. The 21 model would need a duct under the bed over to the bath. That is where you want your heat in cold weather, the bath is probably the coldest spot in the trailer.
My issue with discharging into the bathroom is that it would need a lot of vent opening to allow airflow out of the bathroom into the rest of the trailer; otherwise, it would just be a dead end and little heated air would flow from that outlet.

Specifically in the 21', the challenge would be getting from the cabinet with the furnace to the bed structure. There's a bit of walking space there, so the duct would need to go down through the floor (to the outside), or against the base of the wall in a box that would cut into floor space, or in a box against the wall higher up.
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Old 10-25-2015, 02:03 PM   #38
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There was kind of a flap when ETI moved the furnace in the 21 to the front of the trailer and some storage space was lost. But I think it is an excellent location with the heat close to the bath and actually shooting at it
I agree that it's a good place for the furnace, but a ducted installation would move air around the trailer more effectively, which would help with condensation.
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Old 10-25-2015, 02:06 PM   #39
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My issue with discharging into the bathroom is that it would need a lot of vent opening to allow airflow out of the bathroom into the rest of the trailer; otherwise, it would just be a dead end and little heated air would flow from that outlet.

Specifically in the 21', the challenge would be getting from the cabinet with the furnace to the bed structure. There's a bit of walking space there, so the duct would need to go down through the floor (to the outside), or against the base of the wall in a box that would cut into floor space, or in a box against the wall higher up.
Brian,
I was implying that the bath vent would be in addition to the normal front vent, not in lieu of. Very easily done with 2 vent outputs.
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Old 10-25-2015, 03:54 PM   #40
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We have covered all the window frames with insulating tape to mitigate this in the future.
Is there a specific type of insulating tape you use?
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