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Old 01-29-2021, 04:29 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolCampingKid View Post
As I recall the propane detector stays powered up even when the battery disconnect is off. That will draw power too.
Not sure where you heard that but I don't think that is true. Easy enough to test.
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:39 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Centex View Post
If I understand you are talking about power to the controller from the PV array? The Battery Master Switch I posit has nothing to do with that at all.

My 'Battery Master Switch' only bears on connections to the battery. The purpose is to control charging sources TO the battery and potential loads (discharges) FROM the battery, nothing else.

Tdf-texas posited in post #50 above that the controller may place a load on the battery even absent input from the PV array. If that's the case, my Battery Master Switch would eliminate that load on the battery when 'set 1'.

As an aside (unrelated to Jon's mystery battery load / unanticipated discharge) my overall scheme includes separate switches to isolate each PV panel from the controller. A recent version of that evolving overall scheme can be seen here if interested.

Be patient with me as i new to this and am still learning . The wires from solar controller carry both both the battery charging current and the power from the battery for the controller itself. So if this is switched at the battery switch the panels would still be sending power to the controller. Its my understanding that the victron will always have to be hooked to the battery before any power from the solar array. I see you have a switch for the solar array Maybe you shutting this down at the same time?
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Old 01-29-2021, 05:08 PM   #63
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Be patient with me as i new to this and am still learning.
Me too! That's why I post this stuff for feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
Its my understanding that the victron will always have to be hooked to the battery before any power from the solar array.
If in fact having the controller output 'open' (not connected to a battery) when there is input from the PV array presents risk of damage to something, then the Master Switch as I posit would not be good (it would require separately isolating the PV arrays from the controller before isolating the controller from the battery).

While I have switches to facilitate that, the risk of 'operator error' is great, and that's not good.

One reason I question whether there's risk in having the controller output 'open' when there is input from the PV array is that I see a number of overall system schematics on Victron's own website where there is a fuse between the controller and the battery bank. It would seem that fuse presents an opportunity for an 'open' controller output while there is PV input just as does my Master Switch (?)

Thanks for raising that flag, just the sort of thing I hope to get here, I'll have to look into that further.
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Old 01-29-2021, 05:20 PM   #64
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To the best of my knowledge

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
Not sure where you heard that but I don't think that is true. Easy enough to test.

'Tis true.



My propane detector LED goes off & out when I disconnect the battery with my switch.
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Old 01-29-2021, 05:23 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by CoolCampingKid View Post
As I recall the propane detector stays powered up even when the battery disconnect is off. That will draw power too.
The propane detector is powered off a fuse in the WFCO DC fuse panel. Since this panel is powered down when the battery disconnect switch is off, the propane detector goes off too.
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Old 02-03-2021, 04:46 PM   #66
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I guess I still don't have a clear understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER View Post
I use the plug-in el cheapo voltage meter that goes into the Escape installed 12V receptacle mounted in the dinette bench.

Whether I am plugged in WITH or WITHOUT the battery disconnect switch ON or OFF, when I first plug in voltage reads 14.5V-ish and later drops to 13.6V.


Is this logical? Is the converter programmed to run this routine? I wouldn't EXPECT a 14.5V charge voltage if the batteries are disconnected.
I've still been pondering this observation. I looked in what manuals I have and have not found anything.

So if I plug in to electric, is the converter charging the battery whether the battery disconnect switch is active or off? Or is the converter ONLY charging when the battery switch is ON and active?


I see the 14.5V-ish at plug-in in either ON or OFF condition at the battery switch. Does the converter at start-up send a bulk 14.5V charge into the system even if the battery is disconnected from the system?


And someone lately brought up this and got me pondering more. Will the break-away switch and brakes work, if needed, whether the battery switch is On or Off?


Got a notion?
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Old 02-03-2021, 05:00 PM   #67
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.... And someone lately brought up this and got me pondering more. Will the break-away switch and brakes work, if needed, whether the battery switch is On or Off?
Personally, for that one, I'm gonna be doing the 'pull the lanyard and listen for magnet humm' test (with disconnect switch OFF as well as ON) before connection of the trailer to my TV.

It's just too easy (and IMO prudent) to verify that situation beyond any shadow of a doubt with the actual trailer of interest before each tow, settling any possible whimsy or error by ETI's wiring-technician-du-jour or later system fault.

It matters not one-iota to me what the behavior is on anyone else's trailer, YMMV
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Old 02-03-2021, 05:13 PM   #68
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OK.....but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centex View Post
Personally, for that one, I'm gonna be doing the 'pull the lanyard and listen for magnet humm' test (with disconnect switch OFF as well as ON) before connection of the trailer to my TV.

It's just too easy (and IMO prudent) to verify that situation beyond any shadow of a doubt with the actual trailer of interest before each tow, settling any possible whimsy or error by ETI's wiring-technician-du-jour or later system fault.

It matters not one-iota to me what the behavior is on anyone else's trailer, YMMV


Well, thanks for the input.
But that doesn't answer my questions.
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Old 02-03-2021, 06:58 PM   #69
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I've still been pondering this observation. I looked in what manuals I have and have not found anything.
So if I plug in to electric, is the converter charging the battery whether the battery disconnect switch is active or off? Or is the converter ONLY charging when the battery switch is ON and active?
Got a notion?
The battery disconnect switch breaks the path between the battery and the WFCO at least on mine. So if plugged in the converter output would have no path back to the battery to charge it if the switch is off. Unless I'm missing something, that is how it appears to be wired up in mine.
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Old 02-03-2021, 07:03 PM   #70
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The battery disconnect switch breaks the path between the battery and the WFCO at least on mine. So if plugged in the converter output would have no path back to the battery to charge it if the switch is off. Unless I'm missing something, that is how it appears to be wired up in mine.
That is how it would be on any trailer with a (correctly installed) battery disconnect.
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Old 02-03-2021, 07:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER View Post
I see the 14.5V-ish at plug-in in either ON or OFF condition at the battery switch. Does the converter at start-up send a bulk 14.5V charge into the system even if the battery is disconnected from the system?

And someone lately brought up this and got me pondering more. Will the break-away switch and brakes work, if needed, whether the battery switch is On or Off?
With the WFCO it wouldn’t surprise me if the converter/charger initially put out a higher voltage even with battery disconnected and then settled in. How long are you seeing 14.5V before it drops?

Brakes will work as normal when driving with voltage signal from brake controller via 7-pin. Breakaway switch as I have traditionally seen wired will be disconnected if battery switch is off (open). This is why the disconnect switch is only to be off for storage. It should be on when towing. Some of us (myself included) have wired the breakaway to the battery side of the disconnect switch so it is always hot and independent of disconnect switch position. Direct to the battery + battery terminal might be best but I’m leaving as-is for now. Only way mine wouldn’t work is if my new 60A fuse near the battery happened to blow.
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Old 02-03-2021, 07:21 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER View Post
I've still been pondering this observation. I looked in what manuals I have and have not found anything.

So if I plug in to electric, is the converter charging the battery whether the battery disconnect switch is active or off? Or is the converter ONLY charging when the battery switch is ON and active?


I see the 14.5V-ish at plug-in in either ON or OFF condition at the battery switch. Does the converter at start-up send a bulk 14.5V charge into the system even if the battery is disconnected from the system?


And someone lately brought up this and got me pondering more. Will the break-away switch and brakes work, if needed, whether the battery switch is On or Off?


Got a notion?

How long is the 14.5 volts last? Is it just something that is momentarily when you power the converter? I know when i power my converter when it first started the fan will start ruining for maybe 30 seconds. I haven't checked the voltage in that period But I will tomorrow . On the other hand if you getting 14.5 volts with the battery switch off for a period of time that doesn't seem right. The break away switch should have power even with battery switch off. I would do the test centex suggested. 30 seconds you will know. If wired correctly the battery switch should stop the charging of the batteries from the converter. This is how it works on my trailer. You need to confirm this as maybe your was build Friday afternoon and someone was in a hurry.also you could send a email to wfco.
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Old 02-03-2021, 07:59 PM   #73
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More confused then ever.

Looks like I'll have to cipher this out on my own.


Thanks all for your input. I will take it all "under advisement".
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Old 02-03-2021, 08:44 PM   #74
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Looks like I'll have to cipher this out on my own.


Thanks all for your input. I will take it all "under advisement".
Here’s some advice.
Drink till you teeter
Then find your multimeter
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Old 02-03-2021, 09:07 PM   #75
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The break away switch should have power even with battery switch off.
Not on older trailers. See my post above. Are you sure this is how yours is wired?
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Old 02-03-2021, 09:31 PM   #76
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Confusion...confusion?

Not data here. What build dates, what, if any, evidence?


Does this all sound familiar, given recent events?


Show me the info!
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:59 PM   #77
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Not on older trailers. See my post above. Are you sure this is how yours is wired?

I questioned ETI and was told it was wired that way. I very often tow with switch off. I don't thing I have tested it. I better do that. There seem to be a variety of wiring practices used over the years.
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Old 02-04-2021, 01:42 PM   #78
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There seem to be a variety of wiring practices used over the years.
True. Some aspects of the wiring design and construction vary by model, by year within the same model, and within the same model and year depending on options... and all of that makes sense. The breakaway switch wiring may be an example of these variations.
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Old 02-04-2021, 03:21 PM   #79
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Not on older trailers. See my post above. Are you sure this is how yours is wired?
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
True. Some aspects of the wiring design and construction vary by model, by year within the same model, and within the same model and year depending on options... and all of that makes sense. The breakaway switch wiring may be an example of these variations.

I confirm today on my trailer the break away switch will work with the battery switch in the off position. Also my solar will charge the batteries while switch is in off position. I guess one should test your own trailer to know how its wired.
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Old 02-04-2021, 05:06 PM   #80
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Yup

"I guess one should test your own trailer to know how its wired."


Snowstorm going on right now, my rig is under cover and I will await good weather and do the testing then. It may be awhile. The next week calls for below 0F temperatures. Yikes!
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