Compressed air winterization at a gas station?

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Well, they use propylene glycol in ice cream, so best worry about your heart valves.

When eating ice cream, which I do a lot, the last thing I think about is the ingredients. I'd rather focus on the toppings! Now, back to winterizing....

[float5]

Originally Posted by paulk

Reading previous threads on this forum, I thought that using RV antifreeze left an unpleasant taste in the pipes for months afterwards, which put me down the path of considering the compressed air method. I've subsequently learned that there are many types of RV antifreeze though, and I'm not sure if propylene glycol based antifreezes leave as much aftertaste. Perhaps this would be a good point for me to re-examine those earlier assumptions.

I don't think that most people report such a problem but are more likely to have one if they put anti-freeze into the fresh water tank, which we never do. We use gallons of water for drinking so we can't have any such problem. We have been places where there was flooding or other problems and the water could be bad, so we pick up gallon containers.

[paulk]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

The Viair works because it has adequate pressure and he did one line at a time (indicative of low cfm). Trailer winterizing methods with compressed air generally recommend 30-40 psi. You might not need that much but I am sure you need more than 0.25.

This is an interesting point to me. Having never winterized anything in my life, I'm not quite sure what the 30-40 psi part pertains to. Can someone who has done this tell me if it is:
1) What you are supposed to set the pressure limiter to, but not necessarily a pressure that is observed occurring during the process.
2) The pressure that is observed at the pump while there is still water in the lines
3) The pressure that is observed at the pump when most of the water has been removed and the air is free flowing.

I think if it is #3, then probably these low PSI inflator pumps won't work since it implies that there is a great deal of friction inside the pipes that needs to be overcome. If it is #1 or #2, then it might work, and I'd still be curious to try it.

[gbaglo]

My understanding is that you set the pressure at the compressor to 30 psi. That is the pressure in the compressor tank. That's why a 6 gal. compressor works. It can maintain that pressure while you are blowing out the lines for long enough to do the job. You set it to 30 psi so that you don't blow the lines apart.
Again, that's why I don't think these other pumps can do the job. They aren't consistent and they don't maintain the pressure.
I've got nothing invested in my arguement, since my compressor languishes in the back shed and I use a pump and RV anti-freeze instead.

[paulk]

Originally Posted by Marky

Don't use the compressed air from a gas station. It has too much pressure! The high pressure can blow a a pipe or seal. When using compressed air, it should be set to 30lbs.

You could perhaps put a pressure regulator between the compressor and the intake valve of the trailer. Vehicle tires take PSIs in the mid 30s I think, so it's in the right range at least.

[KirkB]

If you have a large enough capacity compressor, it is all of the above (1,2, and 3). A compressor with a high air flow rating will maintain the pressure until all the water is removed from the line. Most of the water gushes out in a steady blast, then the last bits of water come out with a lot of hissing and spitting, with more air loss before the water is gone. I think the limiting factor is air flow, not friction. But I don't think a high volume, low pressure air pump can do the job.

I use a smaller capacity compressor - rated at 1 CFM at 40 PSI. I set the output pressure to 30 PSI. I only open one fixture at a time to minimize the air loss. I usually have to wait for the pressure to build up again after blowing out a couple of lines. It works, but a larger compressor would be quicker.

[sunrisetrucker]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Well, they use propylene glycol in ice cream, so best worry about your heart valves.

That's why I eat very little ice cream.

I like to use a diaphragm compressor similar to this
https://www.amazon.ca/Airbrush-Perfo...agm+compressor

Has the needed volume and pressure plus no need to worry about oil in the line.

[Jim Bennett]

I have never used antifreeze on an Escape yet, and don't plan to. In my 19 I was fortunate to have the low-point drain, which did a great job just using gravity. Not recommended now due to the toilet valve used, plus I don't believe they plumb in a way this would be effective anymore.

For the 5.0TA, I will use 40 psi air pressure, opening one valve at a time until it the lines are all cleared. Escape supplied a connector in our goody bag to hook to the water inlet for this purpose. This really is a simple, effective method.

It really does not matter what method you use, just do what you feel is easier and you are more comfortable with. As long as you remove most of the water from the system, you will be just fine.

[kstock11]

I started out using an air compressor and eventually changed over to using antifreeze. I never felt 100% sure that all the water was out of the system - especially the toilet. With the antifreeze (& 3 way valve) I can see the pink flowing out and know that I have protection. The cost of having the toilet valve crack just isn't worth the chance to me. I can have the system winterized in less than five minutes and won't hesitate to use the trailer due to having to rewinterize.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by kstock11

I started out using an air compressor and eventually changed over to using antifreeze. I never felt 100% sure that all the water was out of the system - especially the toilet. With the antifreeze (& 3 way valve) I can see the pink flowing out and know that I have protection. The cost of having the toilet valve crack just isn't worth the chance to me. I can have the system winterized in less than five minutes and won't hesitate to use the trailer due to having to rewinterize.

Kevin, you really don't need 100% of the water out, though with using air it is real close. For something like the toilet valve, if you hear air blasting through, you know the water has been voided.

A toilet valve is not expensive, but certainly is a pain in the butt to pick up and change. Yes, I did forget to flush the toilet line out one year........ :

Both methods take about the same time to do, with the exception of not having to go pick up antifreeze if using air. Both methods work just as effectively.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by kstock11

I started out using an air compressor and eventually changed over to using antifreeze. I never felt 100% sure that all the water was out of the system - especially the toilet. With the antifreeze (& 3 way valve) I can see the pink flowing out and know that I have protection. The cost of having the toilet valve crack just isn't worth the chance to me. I can have the system winterized in less than five minutes and won't hesitate to use the trailer due to having to rewinterize.

Just a reminder to those that use antifreeze. Make sure to depress the check valve mechanism on the outside city water hose connection and let some pink squirt out as part of your rounds. Stand to the side. This small leg of the piping is easy to forget.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

In my 19 I was fortunate to have the low-point drain, which did a great job just using gravity.

Jim, glad to hear the low point drain works well. We have it on our 2010. In fact I just recently put on a high quality ball valve so it is convenient to use if we get caught in some colder weather and want to quickly drain the system.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Both methods take about the same time to do, with the exception of not having to go pick up antifreeze if using air. Both methods work just as effectively.

Jim, aren't you still putting some antifreeze down the drains to protect the traps and some in the black tank? I would think you still need at least a gallon.

[cpaharley2008]

and like one member here forgot, do not forget the outside shower connection when winterizing.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Jim, aren't you still putting some antifreeze down the drains to protect the traps and some in the black tank? I would think you still need at least a gallon.

Okay, you caught me there. I do put some into the P-traps, usually just a cup or so. Nothing in the black tank though, as I drain it off before winter.

I have a few jugs of antifreeze my mom gave me years ago that I still have not used up.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Okay, you caught me there. I do put some into the P-traps, usually just a cup or so. Nothing in the black tank though, as I drain it off before winter.

I have a few jugs of antifreeze my mom gave me years ago that I still have not used up.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't want any newbies thinking they can get away with absolutely no antifreeze. Although someone did mention something about sucking water out of the traps so I suppose it's possible, but that sounds like a pain.

[thoer]

If anyone has ever tasted even a hint of RV antifreeze, then that system has not been adequately sanitized.

Unless you NEVER drink or use the freshwater in your tank for cooking, RV water systems need to be sanitized at least every year. It should always be sanitized when brought out of storage. Sanitation of systems has been very completely discussed in many threads. A well done sanitation process will remove all traces of antifreeze down to PPM (parts per million)-amounts that would take a lab analysis to find.

Antifreeze should never go into the hot water tank.

Blowing out and antifreeze methods both work, but I hope people aren't avoiding antifreeze from the belief that they are going to taste it or that there is going to be enough of it left over to be any sort of health threat. One ice cream cone will supply you with more propylene glycol than you could get from hundreds of years in a well maintained RV water system.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by thoer

...One ice cream cone will supply you with more propylene glycol than you could get from hundreds of years in a well maintained RV water system.

One colonoscopy...
"Four liters of polyethylene glycol 3350 with balanced electrolytes for colonoscopy preparation..."

That's about 100 lifetimes in my opinion. (So looking forward to mine next month.)

--
Alan

[thoer]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

One colonoscopy...
"Four liters of polyethylene glycol 3350 with balanced electrolytes for colonoscopy preparation..."

That's about 100 lifetimes in my opinion. (So looking forward to mine next month.)

--
Alan

LOL - I was going to make that same point Alan, but figured someone would point out that polyethylene glycol and propylene gylcol are the precisely the same chemical. Good luck - the only good thing about it is the afterglow after the conscious sedation.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by thoer

LOL - I was going to make that same point Alan, but figured someone would point out that polyethylene glycol and propylene gylcol are the precisely the same chemical. Good luck - the only good thing about it is the afterglow after the conscious sedation.

If you forgo the drip, you are allowed to drive home after. Just a minor discomfort is all.

[Vermilye]

If you can winterize at home (don't need a compressor small enough to carry in the trailer) this Harbor Freight oilless compressor is often on sale for $39.00. Combine that with one of their 20% off coupons, and you have a low cost solution. I've been using this compressor set at 40PSI to blow out the lines on my 17B for a couple of years & it works well. The only antifreeze I use is for the traps.

If you need to blowout the trailer without a partner, this adapter will be useful since it let you make a hands free connection between the compressor & the city water fill connector.